Blackmagic Forum

Will the Primatte keyer be worked into the built-in version of Fusion in Resolve? I'm asking because I do a lot of green screen compositing and am wondering if I still need to buy Fusion Studio to get all the Primatte features or if it will appear in Resolve. I have Resolve Studio.

Michael

It will not be included. Please checkout the Resolve 3D keyer.

OK great, I'll check it out.

Hey,
Just saw this thread, and I'm involved too because I've been doing all my keys in Fusion's Primatte node and my workflow is solid now.
I cannot install any beta now for pro running projects reasons but Peter, is what you mentioned a new feature of v15 or the same keyer which was available in 14 ?

BTW, it seems Kick Ass Keyer is working.

Sam Steti wrote:Hey,
Just saw this thread, and I'm involved too because I've been doing all my keys in Fusion's Primatte node and my workflow is solid now.
I cannot install any beta now for pro running projects reasons but Peter, is what you mentioned a new feature of v15 or the same keyer which was available in 14 ?

same as v14

Peter Chamberlain wrote:same as v14

Ok thanks.

This is very disappointing. Ive been using the delta keyer and primatte keyer a lot for green screens. The Delta keyer works great for general keys, but Primatte has been a life saver when it comes to keying out details and bad spots. I have tried and am not able to achieve the same results with the delta keyer as I can with primatte. For me this will mean needing to still use Fusion 9. The ability to draw a line designating the foreground and another one designating the background and allowing the keyer to calculate the matte has been indispensable for detail work.

Michael McCaffrey wrote:This is very disappointing. Ive been using the delta keyer and primatte keyer a lot for green screens. The Delta keyer works great for general keys, but Primatte has been a life saver when it comes to keying out details and bad spots. I have tried and am not able to achieve the same results with the delta keyer as I can with primatte. For me this will mean needing to still use Fusion 9. The ability to draw a line designating the foreground and another one designating the background and allowing the keyer to calculate the matte has been indispensable for detail work.

I have been using the Primatte Keyer for more than 10 years and i can honestly say that after using the Delta keyer last year i am not sure i would ever go back to the Primatte Keyer.

Delta Keyer is much better in extracting details and dealing with bad green screens. I am surprised you were not immediately blown away by its results!

I'd be interested in the results you get in Resolves color page 3D keyer as well.

I will report, for sure, because I'm the most disappointed so far I think... Hope I'll be easily convinced... At least, I came back on this thread here at the right time, because I was about to import Primatte keys macros inside beta 4...

Miltos Pilalitos wrote:

Michael McCaffrey wrote:This is very disappointing. Ive been using the delta keyer and primatte keyer a lot for green screens. The Delta keyer works great for general keys, but Primatte has been a life saver when it comes to keying out details and bad spots. I have tried and am not able to achieve the same results with the delta keyer as I can with primatte. For me this will mean needing to still use Fusion 9. The ability to draw a line designating the foreground and another one designating the background and allowing the keyer to calculate the matte has been indispensable for detail work.

I have been using the Primatte Keyer for more than 10 years and i can honestly say that after using the Delta keyer last year i am not sure i would ever go back to the Primatte Keyer.

Delta Keyer is much better in extracting details and dealing with bad green screens. I am surprised you were not immediately blown away by its results!

I was happy with the results for the general key. But there are remnants of the green screen appearing between someone's fingers when they are gesturing. No matter how much I tried, I could not get these remnants removed with the delta keyer. Tried for quite a while. Finally went back to Fusion 9, used primatte and instantly I had an amazing key around the fingers, the webbed finger look was gone and the hand matte was perfect. I attribute this to being able to manually draw on the image where I want the matte to be between the subjects fingers (using that red line that allows you to select the background). With the delta keyer or any other keyer, there is no way that I know of to isolate and select certain areas to be keyed. You are left having to play with hue, saturation and luminance, which is hit and miss, and sometimes, with specific problem areas like this, only miss. That was my experience.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I'd be interested in the results you get in Resolves color page 3D keyer as well.

What 3D keyer are you referring to? I did not see any keyer called "3D Keyer" unless it is under a different name?

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I'd be interested in the results you get in Resolves color page 3D keyer as well.

Personally I was blown away by how much cleaner a key I get using the 3D keyer compared to Primatte which I had been using for years.

Michael McCaffrey wrote:

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I'd be interested in the results you get in Resolves color page 3D keyer as well.

What 3D keyer are you referring to? I did not see any keyer called "3D Keyer" unless it is under a different name?

It's under the Qualifier:
HSL>RGB>LUM>3D

Btw Michael, this means Primatte is included in Fusion Studio 9 hmm ?
(yes, I'm on Fusion Studio 8, saw so many complaints when 9 was released that I didn't dl it, then I finally never did it ).

I had good results in Resolve 3D keyer too, I admit. But its way too add a new color nuance at each election is finally the same way you clean BG/fg in Primatte. However, this particular skill put apart, there is no way to compete with nodes like alpha divide (before) and alpha multiply (after), matte control (at least for spill), and not to write too long the Greg Chalenko's BlurredEdgeRestoration (check his work at compositing.tv, he's no clown). All these are perfectly collaborative with Primatte's tab, trust me... Although efficient in most short cases, Resolve's 3D keyer is not in the same ballyard, even in the spill area only.

Consequently, this thread about Primatte should not be read as a contest for keyer, it's not about x is better than y, it's more about workflows and efficiency anybody build years after years.
So I guess there's some kind of commercial matter underneath (like fee, royalties or whatever) that led Primatte not to show up anymore... Actually I should say I hope, it's easier for me to be convinced this way, because if it's painless ("payless" ? ), please bring it back BMD

Duke Sweden wrote:

Michael McCaffrey wrote:

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I'd be interested in the results you get in Resolves color page 3D keyer as well.

What 3D keyer are you referring to? I did not see any keyer called "3D Keyer" unless it is under a different name?

It's under the Qualifier:
HSL>RGB>LUM>3D

Ok I found it. Not really working to well though. After applying the key I end up with a blue looking screen instead of green, but not black like it should be. None of the matte controls are working. Clean black, clean white, denoise, in/out ratio.. none seem to be working.

So I got the 3D Keyer to work for one green screen. Has some of the same selection functions as primatte which is great. Thats what I wanted. Since I have multiple green screens with this person, Im trying to add my key and grade to a "group," but when I grab a still, and save it to my gallery, then setup the group, go to group pre-clip and apply the grade it doesnt work. Im not sure why? Will it not work in the group pre-clip? I noticed I cannot even manually add an alpha output in the group pre-clip. And when I apply the grade to the "clip" area, the grade doesnt carry over when its saved to a group. So it seems I am stuck having to save the key and grade as a gallery still and manually apply it to every single interview clip where this person appears. Probably okay for me for this one person because he only appears a few times, but my other interviewees appear dozens and dozens of times so having them in a group makes making changes to those clips across the board much easier. Which the grouping ability would include alpha outputs