Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

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ericjhaase

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Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostWed May 23, 2018 1:34 am

Have shot past many project on Monstro with IPP2 selected in camera (REDWIDEGAMUT/LOG3G10) and viewing REC709.

Davinci Resolve (v14 or 15beta) project setting RED RAW is set to Camera Metadata. When I bring footage in to Resolve and click on the RAW tab it shows IPP2 as color science but REDWIDEGAMUT and BT1886 are selected. The footage immediately does not appear as it did viewing from camera output on set. It appears desaturated and lacks SOME contrast but not so flat like a log image.

1.Why is Resolve not even reading the metadata properly? The cam metadata SHOULD be REDWIDEGAMUT/LOG3G10 as a starting point for raw development, right?

Then I go to project settings for RAW and change to PROJECT and select REDWIDEGAMUT/LOG3G10, and check the boxes to use camera metadata for ISO, Exposure, and Color Temp (they should really include Tint here by the way). Back to the RAW tab for the clip the changes are reflected but I would like to change the ISO for the shot, so for that clip I select CLIP instead of PROJECT under DECODE USING. Instead of reverting to the camera ISO it reverts to the ISO selected on the RAW PROJECT settings even though the box was checked to USE CAMERA METADATA for the ISO. I can say I almost NEVER want to use a uniform ISO for a project so I check this box. Then I would like to tweak the clip metadata controls so I want to Decode Using clip but it sets White balance and ISO to these settings although the box is checked! It should preserve the camera metadata so you can use it as a starting point!

The whole IPP2 implementation in Resolve is terrible and buggy. Grades happen after the output transforms, pretty much making IPP2 selection for color science in the RAW tab useless since you lose highlight and shadow detail grading after the transform.

Blackmagic should open a clip in REDCINEX and look how it comes up as it reads the camera metadata properly, and then takes adjustments to grade, and THEN applied the output transform. In Resolve, the output transform appears to be applied BEFORE any grading. This is not how IPP2 should work. Furthermore, it appears as the output transform is NOT applied when the gamma is set to LOG3G10. It looks like maybe Resolve wants gamma and color space to be considered the target or monitoring gamma or color space?

I guess the best is still to use VERSION 2 and a transform IPP2 LUT. Another overly complicated and glitchy color workflow from RED that is laced with secret GOTCHAS that can lead to lower quality and poor results. I wish BMD would do a deep dive and try to get these 2 issues fixed. Maybe one of them is the limit of the SDK?

I do know that I have had to pass notes along to post asking them to change camera raw settings in each clip because they are not populating as shot in camera. Really makes communicating an intended look all the way through post very difficult for a DP.
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Andy DeVries

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostTue Jun 12, 2018 6:07 pm

Seconded!

mixinglight wrote an insight on this subject that confirms virtually everything you've mentioned here, particularly that the current workaround is applying the output transform in the form of a 3D LUT at the END of the node tree:

https://mixinglight.com/color-tutorial/ ... olve-sort/

These LUTs are all bundled with Resolve 14/15 so hey at least they're trying...PS I've graded in nodes post-IPP2 with success but it can result in some nasty artifacts.

I'm also struggling with implementing creative 3D LUTs that are used for on-set monitoring. My director likes to use cinematic LUTs to get a base grade on-set...so the DP adds it prior to the IPP2 output transform. If I want to use this as my starting point, or at least reference what the director was liking, I'm forced to hunt for the LUTs used since they do not appear anywhere in the camera metadata. Sometimes I can find them buried within R3D folders if there were on-set proxies churned out, but I'm still adding pre-IPP2 manually and dialing in the strength until it approximates what the DP saw on set. Embarassing.

All in all, attempts to implement a reliable Resolve "starting point" is a very sloppy science...which sadly means a lot of professional colorists are shrugging and just grading with the on-set prores proxies to avoid the headache :(
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Peter Chamberlain

Blackmagic Design

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 5:26 am

Hi all. these tests were done with v15b4.

Regardless of camera, the project settings camera raw and the color page camera raw palette processes the images prior to the DaVinci Resolve image processing pipeline.
If you want to grade in that pipeline in a particular color space and gamma you need to put the Resolve timeline in that color space and gamma.
There are many ways to do that but here is a simple way using RCM (Resolve Color Management)
Then at the end of the image pipeline you need to transform to the output color space and gamma and do that with the appropiate curve.
Again, there are many ways to do that but here is a simple way using RCM. No LUT is needed.

In Project Settings, Color Management, select DaVinci Resolve Color Managed.
Then set the Timeline color space, in this case, REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10.
This will place the timeline in the correct color space so when the r3d is decoded using the camera metadata its into REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10.
When you grade in Resolves color tools you are in that space.

But you are likely to want to see and export in a different color space so.
For, Timeline to Output Gamut Mapping, select the mode you are after. In this case RED IPP2 Gamut Mapping.
You can also set the Output Tone Map, Highlight Roll Off and Peak NIT value.
(Note; these three appear in the color page camera raw palette and look like you can adjust them there but you cant when in this mode.
I'll get that fixed as the camera raw palette output is always, regardless of camera, into the color processing pipeline and we want that to be at the end of the pipeline, not the beginning.
That's why its set in Project settings, color management)

So now, you can adjust the ISO in the color page camera raw palette and also grade the primaries, curves etc as normal.

Resolve Project Test2.drp.zip
(22.94 KiB) Downloaded 42 times


Screen shots for reference. also drp (as a zip) so you can load and try yourself.

Project settings-color management.png
Project settings-color management.png (416.85 KiB) Viewed 2618 times


Project settings-camera raw.png
Project settings-camera raw.png (287.19 KiB) Viewed 2618 times
Attachments
Camera Raw-clip metadata.png
Camera Raw-clip metadata.png (211.75 KiB) Viewed 2614 times
No Lut used.png
No Lut used.png (183.65 KiB) Viewed 2618 times
DaVinci Resolve Product Manager
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Elliott Balsley

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 7:20 pm

The settings in Peter's screenshot seem to be working for me, except I set input color space to Bypass for RED clips. Then for other camera formats, like Arriraw, I set each clip to the right input input color space.
But what happens to other camera formats when you have selected IPP2 Gamut Mapping? Does this mean my Arriraw clips are also being transformed to RWG/Log3G10 and then from there to Rec709 using IPP2 math?
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Curtis Boggs

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 12:16 am

Bringing this back up because I have a question about this workflow.

When setting IPP2 as Peter shows in the project setting it will
set the tone mapping and hightlight roll off the same for the entire project.
But what if you want to change the tone mapping for individual clips
in the same project?

C
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shaleybrooks

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 9:07 pm

This post was very helpful. Thanks. Now, anyone have a clue how to use an offline reference file in this setup?
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Krishna Pada

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Re: Resolve and RED IPP2 issues.

PostSun Sep 23, 2018 7:12 am

Curtis Boggs wrote:Bringing this back up because I have a question about this workflow.

When setting IPP2 as Peter shows in the project setting it will
set the tone mapping and hightlight roll off the same for the entire project.
But what if you want to change the tone mapping for individual clips
in the same project?

C


In that case, in the Colour page come to clip. It's on the left side of the colour wheel. In clip, select clip instead of project.
There you can change it all over again for an individual clip.
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