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Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:29 am
by Margus Voll
Hi.

I just did almost full job on Resolve 15 with editing and audio bit.

I have few questions about audio side.

It seems to me as fairlight tab and color / edit tab sound different in volume levels.

Like fairlight holds sound smoother like analogue tape but on edit and color page it sounds more harsh and compressed.
Is this something determined by setup and config or should it be like this?

Another thing i noticed was tools and plugins seems much lesser compared to Nuendo for example or Audition.
Is this something that expands by using controllers or is it current state of things?

I use Ozone and Alloy for some VST.

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:20 am
by Reynaud Venter
Margus Voll wrote:It seems to me as fairlight tab and color / edit tab sound different in volume levels.
There are no distinct and measurable monitoring level differences between Edit and Fairlight pages on OS X nor on Linux with version 15.

This is one of the many standard tests run here with each beta and every subsequent point update.

Only have Windows 7 at my disposal here, so I am unable to test Windows 10 and confirm your experiences.

Like fairlight holds sound smoother like analogue tape but on edit and color page it sounds more harsh and compressed.
Is this something determined by setup and config or should it be like this?
Again, there are no distinct and measurable differences in the audio engine between the Edit and Fairlight pages and version 15 on OS X or on Linux.

This is another standard test run with each release, since it's always wise to follow "Ludwig's Law", and never turn your back on digital.

Again, I don't have access to a Windows 10 machine in order to confirm, but perhaps other Windows 10 users will chime in here and share their experiences.

Another thing i noticed was tools and plugins seems much lesser compared to Nuendo for example or Audition.
Is this something that expands by using controllers or is it current state of things?
Regarding tool differences, do you mean in terms of workflow functionality?

In terms of plugins, while Resolve doesn't include the vast array of default plugins as that provided by ProTools or Nuendo, in my experience, the vast majority of audio professionals (in my circle at least) still rely quite heavily on 3rd party plugins rather than the default audio workstation plugin options anyway.

This is perhaps changing to some extent, as the developers of ProTools and Nuendo (and other audio workstations) provide more sophisticated default plugins, while also offering more unique and specific plugins that are not commonly developed by 3rd party plugin developers.

It is also not exactly a level playing field, comparing an application with 19 years of development behind it (in the case of Nuendo, and even more if you consider that its code base is practically identical to Cubase), or roughly 27 years (in the case of ProTools), with Resolve's current development process of completely integrating (which according to certain public comments by Blackmagic representatives is actually refactoring) a fully developed audio workstation's code base, to be in incorporated in to Resolve's already highly developed code base.

This integration process has barely had (in my estimate) 24 months to complete (from Fairlight acquisition until today).

Phoenix’s Law is always relevant:
"The first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90%"

So functionality differences will be apparent in many areas, but hopefully that gap narrows with each passing year.

That said, it is worth noting that while the process of completely integrating the Fairlight system in to Resolve is obviously still very much an ongoing process, the Resolve developers have made incredible strides with version 15 - Resolve's Fairlight page is now definitely a completely different animal to version 14.

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:56 am
by Thomas Hintze
Hi there,
I just encountered the exact same problem with Davinci (15.0.1 Studio) on Windows 10 Pro, 64bit. The volume levels are totally different in Edit and Fairlight.
I adapted the sound of my main audio (vocal) track in Fairlight, where it sounds great. When going back to EDIT the audio is "shouting" at me.
Also, when cutting an audio track in EDIT that has previously been adjusted in Fairlight the part that has been cut off has lost the adaptions, even though it is still labeled with fx,.

This makes Fairlight almost unusable. I hope a fix is already on the way!?

Kind regards

Thomas

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:31 pm
by Mike Halper
I have also noticed differences in audio playback between the Edit and Fairlight pages. I seem to have traced it down to plugin effects not working the same on both pages, seemingly better in Fairlight than Edit. It does seem to be better in 15.0.1, but if you add enough effects then the problem presents itself.

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:20 am
by Marc Wielage
Reynaud Venter wrote:This is another standard test run with each release, since it's always wise to follow "Ludwig's Law", and never turn your back on digital.

Those following this thread should read this page on "Laws for Audio Engineers." A lot of them are hilarious and actually more true than not.

http://seneschal.net/annex/laws.html

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:48 am
by Margus Voll
I still do not get why one is behaving like analogue device and the other as regular digital one.
I.e. not clipping no matter what and clipping hard. Should this be like that or we do need to take that into account?

For now it seems like Fairlight is wide gamut in color management and edit page is like rec709 clipping like mad.

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:11 am
by Reynaud Venter
Margus, you could attempt this workaround.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=80172#p444010

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:08 am
by Charles Bennett
Not seeing a volume difference between the tabs here.
Marc, in the 48 years (dear me, is it that long?) I've been in audio engineering, I can confirm to that list being all true. :D

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:48 am
by Margus Voll
Reynaud Venter wrote:Margus, you could attempt this workaround.
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewt ... 72#p444010


Thanks. It really helped!

So it is doing double patch by default sort of ?

I have it in every job i work on now and not any weird files.

Re: Fairlight and color page audio sound different

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:56 am
by Reynaud Venter
Margus Voll wrote:So it is doing double patch by default sort of ?
According to the signal flow diagram there shouldn't be additional processing by default, but there appears to be an incorrect implementation within the Control Room, that is easily solved by taking a Direct feed.

Signal Flow.jpg
Signal Flow.jpg (242.13 KiB) Viewed 1645 times


Alternatively, manually reduce the Gain value for each Stem in:
Preferences > System > Video and Audio I/O > Speaker Setup.

Speaker Setup.png
Speaker Setup.png (77.6 KiB) Viewed 1633 times