Blackmagic Forum

I was glad that in the announement of Davinci Resolve 15 support AVI Grassvalley HQX files has been added. This is an important step in my workflow for editing captured super8 films.

I try to use this feature, but run into problems.

The AVI files with Grassvallay HQX codec I have generated using Virtualdub 1.10.4 can not be imported in Davinci Resolve 15.

I have tried many different settings in virtualdub, but can not get a file exported which works.
Attached a small video file generated with virtualdub, which I can not import into Davinci Resolve 15.

Any suggestions how to solve this?

Try a different wrapper, like .mxf or .mov.
Since Resolve can render Grass Valley into .mov, I'd think that's your best bet.

Grass Valley into .mov
OR
Cineform into .AVI.

Uli and Jean Claude beat me to it, but to add to their suggestions.

Yeah, Resolve can be a bit picky when it comes to importing AVI files created with other programs...for the supported AVI codecs that is. Evidently the GV HQX.avi files you created with VirtualDub (with Grass Valley VFW codec pack installed) are such a case. I don't know why. Headers or something. Good news though is that Resolve will import your sample after re-muxing to MOV container. Various ways to do that. Since you are familiar with VDub, I'd suggest using VirtualDub2 (formerly VirtualDub FilterMod):

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vdfiltermod/

Just a matter of loading the file, setting 'Video' and 'Audio' for 'Direct Stream Copy' and Queue Batch Operation > Save As > Save as Type > QuickTime/MOV (.mov). Very fast.

In fact if you plan on continuing to use VDub for encoding, I'd suggest switching to VirtualDub2 anyway. It would give other 'Resolve-compatible' options besides GV HQX (8-bit only with the VFW codecs), including Cineform (native), ProRes.

I'll bet you've been using 'VideoFred's (Freddy Van de Putte) AVISynth routines on your Super8 captures ?

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271&highlight=power+avisynth

https://vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest

Impressive results.

Edit: Actually if you switch from 'old' VDub to VDub2 I think you might find that Resolve will import your GV HQX.avi encodes outright. I don't have the Grass Valley VFW codecs installed, but I passed your sample through VDub2 (as Direct Stream Copy again) saving as AVI and Resolve imported the AVI file.

Thinking back, there was a similar issue importing Cineform.avi files encoded with 'old VDub' (using the GoPro VFW codec). Switching to VDub2 solved that.

Hello Bryan,

Please : go to http://virtualdub2.com/

Same VirtualDub2, just different webpage for the download link.

Bryan Worsley wrote:... GV HQX (8-bit only with the VFW codecs)

Interesting that, after re-muxing, Resolve reports (as per Clip Details) your HQX sample to be 10-bit. And VDub2 decodes the original AVI and remuxed samples to YUV422P16 (16-bit Planar YUV 422) by default.

I was under the impression that the VFW GV HQX encoder was 8-bit only.

It's 8bit over VFW or directshow (Vdub2 uses ffmpeg for decoding, so this is different). You can't push 10bit data to codec over these technologies. 10bit pixel formats are not supported on input/output of the codec when used with VFW/directhsow. Internally data can be normalised to 10bit, but it doesn't change fact it's only 8bit data which gets fed into codec.
Vdub2 can uses ffmpeg for HQX, so decoding is at 10bit. If you have codec installed you can use it (instead of internal engine) and then it will be also only 8bit.

You can do this as a test.
Go to Compression, choose GV HQX and set Pixel Format to v210. This will force to push 10bit into codec. Vdub will show error when you try to export. Do the same for Cineform (not internal one, but VFW if you have it installed) and it will work, as Cineform is coded to support 10bit pixel format on input/output even over VFW.

Outside Edius, Resolve is about only app which can encode HQX at 10bit as it has a native integration over codec SDK. It can be also done with older AE over QT engine, but needs some knowledge and setting up.
Ffmpeg decoding is 10bit (actual over 16bit pixel format, but 6 bits are 0s), but there is no encoding at all.

OK, I understand. GV HQX is always 10-bit and reported as such by Resolve. There is no native '8-bit depth variant' per se, as might be supposed, at face value, from the GV HQX codec spec:

https://www.grassvalley.com/products/hqx_codec/#specificationsweb

It's either 10-bit native or 8-bit 'padded' to 10-bit. Same as Cineform in that respect. Difference is that the GV HQX VFW encoder will only accept 8-bit 422 (YUY2), whereas the Cineform VFW codec will accept 8-bit and 10-bit (v210) 422 input.

Get this though:

Bryan Worsley wrote: Actually if you switch from 'old' VDub to VDub2 I think you might find that Resolve will import your GV HQX.avi encodes outright.

I think you might find it doesn't.

Installed the GV HQX codec pack again to check that out. Used VDub2 to encode an 8-bit 422 (YUY2) source to GV HQX (Superfine) in both AVI and MOV format. Resolve imported the HQX MOV encode just fine, but, to my surprise, not the HQX AVI encode. Yet if I passed the HQX AVI encode through VDub2 again (Direct Stream Copy saved as AVI) Resolve then recognized and imported the AVI file. Repeated the test several times with different source files and the same behaviour. Very strange, Why on earth would it take two 'mux' passes for Resolve to accept the HQX AVI encodes ?

In light of that Edwin (Dutch-Video-Editor), I agree with Jean Claude, either encode to GV HQX.mov or switch to Cineform.avi.

Yes, better to use MOV.

It may have to do something with AVI headers/structure.
Old Vdub has own AVI exporter and new one most likely will use ffmpeg, so different one.
Vdub2 also has old native AV muxer and using DirectStream Copy most likely uses it.

It may be also audio related- do both files have same audio?

The source 8-bit 422 test clips had PCM audio and that was preserved (Direct Stream Copy) in the HQX AVI and MOV encodes, as well as the AVI encode re-mux. Tested without Audio, but the same behaviour. Likewise with GV HQ (Fine) AVI encodes - Resolve would only import them after re-muxing. Same behaviour using the 64-bit version of VDub2 also. Yet no such issue with Cineform AVI encodes using the GoPro codec or native encoder. So I don't know why this particular issue with GV HQX/HQ AVI encodes.

Edit: The 'AVI re-mux fix' doesn't work with 'Old VDub' (1.10.4) by the way, only VDub2.

dutch-video-editor wrote:I was glad that in the announement of Davinci Resolve 15 support AVI Grassvalley HQX files has been added. This is an important step in my workflow for editing captured super8 films.

I try to use this feature, but run into problems.

The AVI files with Grassvallay HQX codec I have generated using Virtualdub 1.10.4 can not be imported in Davinci Resolve 15.

I have tried many different settings in virtualdub, but can not get a file exported which works.
Attached a small video file generated with virtualdub, which I can not import into Davinci Resolve 15.

Any suggestions how to solve this?

Hi Bryan, Hi dutch-video-editor,

I just did a test with Fusion 9.0.2 (Studio) and the video dutch-video-editor

So the clip is well read in Fusion Studio: (must have installed FFMPEG Shared library? But I have installed for a long time=> i do'nt know... )

Saver => GV HQX to AVI (10 bits)


In Davinci Resolve V15: the clip is well read and seen in 10 bits)



(test quickly done: the original clip is 18 fps and delivery fusion is in 30 fps ... not too much time ... but it is possible to keep the 18 fps ...).

To test with Fusion FREE + FFMPEG Shared => better than vdub2?

I don't have Fusion installed to test myself. A simple re-mux to AVI or MOV with ffmpeg (Zeranoe) works fine also:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg -i {Path}:\virtualdub_avi_hqx_sample.avi -vcodec copy -acodec copy {Path}:\virtualdub_avi_hqx_sample_remux.avi

ffmpeg -i {Path}:\virtualdub_avi_hqx_sample.avi -vcodec copy -acodec copy {Path}:\virtualdub_avi_hqx_sample_remux.mov

I got the impression that Edwin wants to stick with VDub for encoding though - maybe does some (pre) processing of his Super-8 captures with AVISynth or VDub, or maybe captures with Vdub?

Edit: There again, no response from Edwin (Dutch-Video-Editor) to any of our suggestions. Why do people do that ?

Thx for all the suggestions so far. I need to work also, so please be a bit patient

I use virtualdub/avisynth to improve the captured super8 films (e.g. noise reduction, sharpness, etc).

After this step I use today Adobe Premiere CC. This program imports these AVI files without problems. BUT Adobe Premiere can not export 18fps files. So I export 25fps files. But I don't like this because there are at not regular points images added and the result is not so smooth as the original 18fps.

So I am now looking for an other editing problem which handles 18fps (and also 12 / 16 / 24 frames/sec) from import, timeline and export.
I think Blackmagic Davince Resolve is good candidate, but this program needs to be able to the Virtualdub export files......

I have tried virtualdub2 with Davinci Resolve, but this does not solve the problem.
Blackmagic Fusion can successfully import the Virtualdub AVI files. But I am not sure that this is the proper program to replace adobe premiere.

My main requirements for a replacement of Adobe Premiere are:
- handle 12 / 14 / 18 / 24 frames/sec
- good colour corrections
- good audio filters (noise reduction)
- batch encoding
- crop video

Any suggestions?

In the mean time I have tried out the remuxing of the AVI files by FFMPEG (thanks Bryan Worsley).

This works fine. After the remux, Davinci Resolve successfully imports the AVI hqx files.

Also played a bit more with Davince Resolve 15 and my first impression is that this is a good replacement for Adobe Premiere.

So, if I understand correctly, you are still unable to import your GV HQX AVI files into Resolve? But was that using VDub2 in place of 'Old VDub' to encode your source to GV HQX afresh ? As I explained, that won't work. Whether encoded with VDub2 or 'Old Vdub', the GV HQX AVI encodes need to be re-muxed (Direct Stream Copy) again with VDub2 (or FFMPEG) for Resolve to import them. Or else encoded with VDub2 to GV HQX in MOV container. Or else switch to Cineform.AVI.

dutch-video-editor wrote:
My main requirements for a replacement of Adobe Premiere are:
- handle 12 / 14 / 18 / 24 frames/sec
- good colour corrections
- good audio filters (noise reduction)
- batch encoding
- crop video

Any suggestions?

Assuming you get around this import issue (as prescribed), the only way I see Resolve not fully meeting your requirements is that it cannot process (natively) at all of the frame-rates you require, specifically 12 and 14fps. Should be no problem with 24fps (which is the default timeline frame rate) and 18fps though.

Only workaround I can think of for your 12fps files is importing into a 24fps project, in which case each frame will be duplicated on the timeline. Or else you could change the 'declared' frame-rate in the Clip Attributes to 24fps. The clip would then play at half speed on the 24fps timeline. Either way you would be left with converting/reverting back to native 12fps after export, and there would be implications for the audio processing.

I don't use Fusion (standalone or Resolve-integrated), so can't comment on it's suitability.
Evidently, what colour correction filters are available for VirtualDub don't meet your needs.

Maybe others know of other programs that do, or can suggest better workarounds.

dutch-video-editor wrote:In the mean time I have tried out the remuxing of the AVI files by FFMPEG (thanks Bryan Worsley).

This works fine. After the remux, Davinci Resolve successfully imports the AVI hqx files.

You bumped me as I was editing my last post. Glad you got the import issue sorted, Where there's a will, there's a way....sometimes

dutch-video-editor wrote:Also played a bit more with Davince Resolve 15 and my first impression is that this is a good replacement for Adobe Premiere.

It is. Have fun with your Super-8 restorations.

Still curious as to why these VDub GV HQX.avi encodes need re-muxing for Resolve import though. Unless you have a particular reason for using GV HQX, I'd change to Cineform.avi (Film Scan 1, or 2, file size permitting).

Thx. I will look into (Gopro) cineform as an intermediate codec instead of Canopus HQX.
Which codec pack (decode/encode) is today recommended for Cineform?

I read about some old version still available before GoPro bought this codec https://www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tut ... vie-studio but also that it have been made open source recently.

Hi Edwin

I have a small film-transfer business here and i also use v-dub for batch work, prior to colour grading. i use cineform as export from v-dub, the cineform codec is an old one its v. 8.6.3. The files import fine into davinci.

Thomas

VirtualDub2 uses a native implementation of the Cineform codec SDK (as does Resolve, and Premiere I believe), so no need to install the GoPro Cineform codec. If your AVISynth output is YV12, just set VDub2 for Normal Recompress and it will do the YV12 > YUY2 conversion internally.

I have now virtualdub2 with the GoPro Cineform codec working and using the compression settings: YUV 4:2:2 10-bit intermediate bit depth: 16 bit, Filmscan1

These AVI files generated can be directly imported into Resolve 15 without the need for transcoding/remuxing.

So this solves my problem. Thanks.

Now further evaluation/playing with Resolve

Great, but why 16-bit ? VDub2 accepts 16-bit input from VapourSynth and AVISynth+, both of which can process natively at high bit depths, but if you are using 'plain vanilla' AVISynth 2.6 (as I assume you are, or have been) your output is surely 8-bit YUV (YV12 or YUY2). Can't imagine you are outputting RGB24/32 if you are using AVISynth for denoising. In which case no sense in making VDub2 needlessly internally convert to YU64. I don't think you gain anything from it. Just set Cineform for '8-bit intermediate bit-depth'. Like I said, if your AVISynth output is YV12, VDub2 will make the internal conversion to YUY2. One of the nice things about VDub2 is that it reveals the format conversion paths from decode to compressor output.

What is your original Super-8 capture format, out of interest ?