Blackmagic Forum

A provocative subject heading but it is a question that anyone should ask themselves before getting too deep into an complex editing project.

I've been using Resolve since last Fall so I'm not a novice. It's behaved admirably with visual effects color work. However lately I've tried to take much the graded effects work into a 10 minute edit and the re-purpose many of the edited clips into a another timeline. It's been a nightmare, first because the clips did not copy from one timeline to another with the same in-points and second because of what happened just now.

I'm working on a 4096X1716 project with 2 1080 ti's. When render caching graded Red clips of 5.5k with NR and OFx I frequently get out of GPU memory errors and the suggestion to reduce the timeline resolution. Usually I just cache render nodes in series and work around that. But today, unfortunately, I decided to try reducing my timeline resolution. To my horror I found that all my previous cache renders were wiped out. Reverting to a project backup did not restore them, even though the rendered files remained on disk. And working at the recommended reduced timeline resolution (2k) did not eliminate the GPU memory full errors, I guess because it still was using the 5.5k source material.

So I let it render and an hour later and many of the cache renders were corrupt and need to be individually addressed node by node and redone

So how about a warning popup that you'll lose all your render caches when you go to change timeline resolution? It might save a life or two in a mission critical situation.

Back to the original subject heading, I was advised last Fall by someone in BM tech support before putting together my very powerful system that it would be fine for editing 4k. Thus I didn't create proxies and/or optimized media. But today I would advise anyone contemplating a complex edit with lots of grading, wade in carefully. These are dangerous waters. Resolve may offer a ton of powerful features, but it's a country mile from flawless. Don't depend on raw computing power to work at 4k+ resolutions. Don't depend on project backups. They won't save you every time. Back up your database religiously at the very least at the end of every day. Likely you'll still get unpleasantly surprised. But the database back-up will minimize the damage and you'll be able to enjoy the software's ridiculously powerful features. YMMV.

The last 5 years i have used Resolve successfully for many prime-time projects. From countless 30'' TVCs to 30' corporate videos. But "successfully" doesn't mean stress-free.

All types of workarounds needed to be devised in order to overcome the exact problem you are describing. Non-optimized memory management. My workstation is similarly specced to yours, 64GB with 2 GPUs, one of which is an 11GB 1080Ti. I have the same pains when i am working on 4K resolutions with 5K RED footage...

Successful final renders are always a gamble. Some times they render some times they don't. Both can happen without changing anything in the project settings.

Resolve is running an arms race. Always adding cool things. But, i would gladly swap a development year of adding new functionality to a development year of optimizing the existing code.

Resolve is running an arms race. Always adding cool things. But, i would gladly swap a development year of adding new functionality to a development year of optimizing the existing code.

I wish they'd spend a year fixing code. However they're still 'in the process' of adding Fusion and 'in the process' of adding Fairlight. There's a lot of functionality still to come, even in Edit, and with that, the resulting bugs that pop up. I'm afraid we're in for a long period of instability.

When you think about "simple" editing with minor color correction then I agree that there are better NLEs for this. I would still go for Edius.
When you want rich color correction+ maybe some play with composting then Resolve with Fusion integration is much more suited.

David Cherniack wrote:I wish they'd spend a year fixing code. However they're still 'in the process' of adding Fusion and 'in the process' of adding Fairlight. There's a lot of functionality still to come, even in Edit, and with that, the resulting bugs that pop up. I'm afraid we're in for a long period of instability.

Agree, but we didn't want to wait for that, so a year ago we bought 2xVEGA FE's with 16 GB and 10 bits color support in OpenGL, instead of the GTX1080ti's and have never had an out off memory error sofar. And it's also works when we use it as a hackintosh to output ProRes or when we ever have to grade ProResRAW.

I love all the added functionality of Fairlight and Fusipn (when it will be on par with the standalone). Resolve is a magnificent tool, but for a long form project with hours of media and custom transitions and effects, I would go with Avid or Premiere. My problem is media management of renders and optimized media. I would need a 120% percent fail safe workflow that will ensure i don't have to transcode repeatedly. Or make the same transitions curves or movements on stills, again and again. The color workflow is fantastic and getting better. And fusion I am confident will eventually get there. But the editing tools I feel are somewhat neglected, extensive feedback from seasoned top notch editors would probably help alot.

MishaEngel wrote:Agree, but we didn't want to wait for that, so a year ago we bought 2xVEGA FE's with 16 GB and 10 bits color support in OpenGL, instead of the GTX1080ti's and have never had an out off memory error sofar. And it's also works when we use it as a hackintosh to output ProRes or when we ever have to grade ProResRAW.

Glad you got yours working. There's a 31% 1 star rating on Amazon for those FE cards. Most people complaining about overheating related issues.

The software just crashed again after trimming a graphic file clip that suddenly became 1 frame long (issue reported in beta cycle). No way to undo that so I had to revert to project backup that needed to re-render all my render caches. So while that's going on I thought I'd comment that the problem I have with the software is only a small part due to GPU errors. It's much more the interruption of editing flow for the various crashes and cache re-renders of individual clips. It becomes very disheartening after a while.

You **are** providing crash logs? Without that....

I'm glad I found this thread.. I was starting to think that I was the only one getting frustrated with all these little glitches.

I've reported a few of my cache adventures in this thread :
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=78644&p=437376#p437376

The first issue in that thread is really nuts.... just dragging a few clips from the bin over the timeline would result in a complete timeline re-cache. I did not even drop the clips in the timeline at all... just a hover over the timeline was enough. I swear, I'm not making this up.

I've seen all sorts of funky stuff related to caching, but this has been going on for a few versions already (was it 12.5 that introduced the smart cache ?).
I'd love some code optimizing too instead of new features....

David Cherniack wrote:The software just crashed again after trimming a graphic file clip that suddenly became 1 frame long (issue reported in beta cycle).

I note from your .sig that you're using Resolve 15. Why??

Since my income depends on getting projects finished on time, I tend to be very conservative when it comes to switching to new software versions (especially major feature upgrades).

To be honest, I was rather surprised when BMD announced that DR15 was "released" -- given the ongoing issues that appeared to be unresolved with the betas. I was expecting several more betas before the release version was struck.

I'm not surprised therefore, to see so many people having problems with Fairlight, Fusion and even just general editing issues. DR15, to the casual observer, seems to be still very much a beta product.

As a result, I'm still using DR14 and stand-alone Fusion. There's nothing I need to do that can't be done with this software and it is far, far more reliable (for me) than DR15 appears to be for many other "early adopters".

Newer is *not* always better -- at least until the bugs are sorted

It's great to be on the cutting edge... but not when your livelihood depends on it.

I note from your .sig that you're using Resolve 15. Why??

"In for a nickle in for a dime"

I started with 15 with visual effects shots. It only became evident that 15 was going to be a problem when I was too far down the road to get back easily. Fortunately I have no deadline other than one that's self imposed.

I, too, was surprised when 15 was released after beta 8.

David Cherniack wrote:

I, too, was surprised when 15 was released after beta 8.

Pure speculation but my hunch is that it was released so v. 15 could ship with the new Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. That camera has a release date of September 2018 (this month) and comes with the Studio version of Resolve. I imagine there was some internal pressure to have that be version 15 rather than 14, since the website has featured v. 15 ever since NAB.

Pure speculation but my hunch is that it was released so v. 15 could ship with the new Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. That camera has a release date of September 2018 (this month) and comes with the Studio version of Resolve.

So you're also speculating that the camera will actually be released this month? My dealer hasn't heard a thing. Nevertheless your guess seems a reasonable explanation for something that's struck me as unreasonable.

RCModelReviews wrote:

David Cherniack wrote:The software just crashed again after trimming a graphic file clip that suddenly became 1 frame long (issue reported in beta cycle).

I note from your .sig that you're using Resolve 15. Why??

Since my income depends on getting projects finished on time, I tend to be very conservative when it comes to switching to new software versions (especially major feature upgrades).

To be honest, I was rather surprised when BMD announced that DR15 was "released" -- given the ongoing issues that appeared to be unresolved with the betas. I was expecting several more betas before the release version was struck.

I'm not surprised therefore, to see so many people having problems with Fairlight, Fusion and even just general editing issues. DR15, to the casual observer, seems to be still very much a beta product.

As a result, I'm still using DR14 and stand-alone Fusion. There's nothing I need to do that can't be done with this software and it is far, far more reliable (for me) than DR15 appears to be for many other "early adopters".

Newer is *not* always better -- at least until the bugs are sorted

It's great to be on the cutting edge... but not when your livelihood depends on it.

Those who live on the cutting edge often end up bleeding to death.

David Cherniack wrote:So you're also speculating that the camera will actually be released this month? My dealer hasn't heard a thing. Nevertheless your guess seems a reasonable explanation for something that's struck me as unreasonable.

It sounds like they're already shipping in Asia; there are some threads about it in the Cinematography section of this forum. Lots of demo footage (official, from selected testers who received cameras specifically to shoot demos) has been released and there are a few unboxing videos from people in Asia (not testers; the testers received the camera in a suitcase). There are reports of mid-September ship dates in the UK: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78819

David Cherniack wrote:Glad you got yours working. There's a 31% 1 star rating on Amazon for those FE cards. Most people complaining about overheating related issues.

First never trust a star rating from anybody using equipment from a competitor or from the competitor self(everybody can rate on these kind of sites). Second try to find independent reviews that can be held accountable for it's reviews like this one https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-vega-frontier-edition-16gb,5128-6.html. Try to find the weak points (not enough pixel shaders so it's not that good in games) of a product you are interested in. Try to find how to enhance the good points https://www.ekwb.com/blog/can-water-block-really-boost-gpu-performance/. Make a decision if you do the purchase or not, based on the info you gathered and hope it works out the way you want.

Our 2 Vega FE's run at 1600 MHz (GPU clock, 13.1 TFlops fp32) and Memory Clock (Effective, 563 GByte/s) 1100 (2200) MHz and we bought our third two weeks ago(as a replacement for a GTX970).

At the end the price of this GPU ended up at around $ 1.300(GPU+waterblock+radiator+1/3pump) each and it is faster than a Quadro P6000 (12.6 TFlops fp32, 432 GByte/s) that cost $ 5.000 at the time of purchase.

MishaEngel wrote:

David Cherniack wrote:Glad you got yours working. There's a 31% 1 star rating on Amazon for those FE cards. Most people complaining about overheating related issues.

First never trust a star rating from anybody using equipment from a competitor or from the competitor self(everybody can rate on these kind of sites). Second try to find independent reviews that can be held accountable for it's reviews like this one https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-vega-frontier-edition-16gb,5128-6.html. Try to find the weak points (not enough pixel shaders so it's not that good in games) of a product you are interested in. Try to find how to enhance the good points https://www.ekwb.com/blog/can-water-block-really-boost-gpu-performance/. Make a decision if you do the purchase or not, based on the info you gathered and hope it works out the way you want.

Our 2 Vega FE's run at 1600 MHz (GPU clock, 13.1 TFlops fp32) and Memory Clock (Effective, 563 GByte/s) 1100 (2200) MHz and we bought our third two weeks ago(as a replacement for a GTX970).

At the end the price of this GPU ended up at around $ 1.300(GPU+waterblock+radiator+1/3pump) each and it is faster than a Quadro P6000 (12.6 TFlops fp32, 432 GByte/s) that cost $ 5.000 at the time of purchase.

The Amazon reviews complain of malfunctioning because of overheating. But that doesn't mean that they're nVidia users sticking it to AMD. That's unjustified speculation especially when you're using water cooling to get around that problem. Like I said I'm happy for you. It's a solution worth considering.

David Cherniack wrote:Like I said I'm happy for you. It's a solution worth considering.

Sadly, for us not any more, I can't get new ones in Europe anymore and the WX9100 is €1.800 where the VEGA FE was only € 1.000.

Maybe it's the 16GB of HBM2 MEMORY and HIGH BANDWIDTH CACHE CONTROLLER (HBCC), that makes the VEGA not run out of memory.

Vega GPU architecture removes the capacity limitations of traditional GPU memory. Thanks to automatic, fine-grained memory movement controlled by the high bandwidth cache controller, “Vega” GPUs equipped with HBCC enables creators and designers to work with much larger, more detailed models and assets in real time. (computers RAM(upto 256 GB with Threadripper) and SSD storage when necessary).