Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

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Dave Pitman

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Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 2:25 am

I'm planning a new build in the next few months. I've build before and know the basics. I've looked at the configuration guide, Puget Systems' offerings, youtube, etc. But I don't feel super confident that I will make solid decisions. I'm sure there are many similarly good options and my goal is to try and end up with one of them. I hope to keep the build below $3200.

Many of you guys are very knowledgeable about current pc components, ideal configurations, etc. I was going to PM a few of you to see if you might be interested in helping me select components for the build by collaborating on a pcpartpicker project. But I though it may be better to ask more generally. If more than one are interested, that would be fine as well.

If anyone has any interest, please PM me or whatever works, and I can provide more info, and thanks!

Dave
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 4:57 am

Hi.

I will suggest a build with an AMD Threadripper CPU. Preferable with a 3rd gen 7nm CPU if you can wait until August where I expect it to be launched together with new motherboards. Back in November 2018 AMD showed the 3rd gen 7nm 64 cores 128 threads EPYC CPU designed for data centers and earlier this week AMD showed a 3rd gen 7nm 8 core 16 threads mainline Ryzen CPU. The 3rd gen 7nm Threadripper CPU will fit in just between. So we got a good idea what to expect. As both the EPYC 3rd gen and the Ryzen 3rd gen will come with PCIe ver 4.0 am I sure that the 3rd gen Threadripper also will come with PCIe ver 4.0.

If you can't wait until August 2019 will I suggest you look at ether a 2nd gen Threadripper CPU or may be a 1st gen Threadripper CPU. They both uses a x399 motherboards. The 2nd gen 16 cores 32 threads 2950X got really nice review and the 1st gen 12 core 24 threads 1920X are reduced to nearly half of the original prices.


But I also want to tell you that there in the next 3 years will be a lot of changes to hardware standards.

Quote:
'Obviously at some point the industry transitions to PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 which will necessitate a socket change.'

From this link with an interview with AMD CTO and senior vice president Mark Papermaster:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13578/na ... apermaster

And I agree with him. I expect we all in 2021 want to run Resolve on PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 systems. So I normally recommend just to buy what you need today and then to upgrade in a few years.

Regards Carsten.
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Vess Stoytchev

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 9:54 am

I'll second Carsten Sellberg - get AMD Threadripper. Depending on your budget you can even get the base model, but that gets you the TR4 socket and you can always invest in more expensive CPUs in the future. Considering that I'm editing on an i7 6700 (sadly i built my PC before Threadripper came out), 4k runs well, braw is a breeze, even the 8 core Threadripper will be great. But of course get the more expensive model if you can.
AMD cards are also good, not the crap they where till recent. But go for nvidia. It seems like RTX is a bit of a scam for now. 1080, 1080ti, 1070, 1070ti are great cards. I have 0 problems with my 1070. Resolve uses it well.
For the rest - don't compromise on the motherboard. Get the top class MB for your CPU. NVmE SSD for system - Samsung or A-data. The second have great prices for great chips. But price difference these days is small for SSDs so maybe concider Samsung as they offer 10 year warranty on their EVO range.
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MishaEngel

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 4:52 pm

With what do you shoot(or edit) and how do you want to finish (codec, camera's, bitdepth, frame-rate, etc...)? and when do you need it?
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John Paines

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 5:13 pm

If it were me, and $3200 was the figure, I think I'd go for *proven* and most widely used hardware. Which would mean avoiding anything but gtx/rtx cards and sticking with intel CPUs.

You can get better value on paper, but at what risk? How many of the folks here who follow hardware development have actually tested the best buys in hardware for either stability or actual measured improvement in Resolve, rather than referring to general benchmarks or number of cores, neither of which may inform actual performance in Resolve?
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Chip.Murphy

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 9:45 pm

Look at the Blackmagic configuration guide. The Threadripper systems are best bang for buck. 1950x/2950x for sure.

Intel is super expensive for the Core i9 offerings and Intel's consumer line doesn't offer enough pcie slots for a 16x GPU and 4x decklink card.
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John Paines

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 10:41 pm

Chip.Murphy wrote:Look at the Blackmagic configuration guide. The Threadripper systems are best bang for buck. 1950x/2950x for sure.

Intel is super expensive for the Core i9 offerings and Intel's consumer line doesn't offer enough pcie slots for a 16x GPU and 4x decklink card.


For hobbyists or gamers, the "best bang for the buck [on paper]" approach may make sense. It makes much less sense if you depend on the equipment for a livelihood. The "viable consideration" endorsement of Threadripper and one AMD GPU in the configuration guide isn't a strong one, when everyone else is in the business is on intel and nvidia, with a large user/knowledge base and where most beta testing occurs, at least for now.

Intel is not "super expensive", given the budget proposed or if you expect to see even a small return on the investment. The OP didn't explain his situation, except for offering a budget which would be large for a hobbyist, so it's impossible to say what he's after.
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 1:03 am

John Paines wrote: given the budget proposed


Hi.

I don't know how long Dave expect his new PC to last?
Or when he expect to buy his next PC when telling us a budget of $3200. But as the industry, in the next couple of years are moving to PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 system do I hope, that he don't mind if we can keep his budget, or may be keep it a little lower. A Intel Hedt system will as I see it, easily with RAM, storage, power supply, cabinet and cooling come over the budget.

One of the advantages the Threadripper have over the Intel Hedt systems is its large socket. It both give 60 PCIe lanes and give the possibility to use a air cooler compared to water coolers used in almost all Intel Hedt systems. Water coolers are no problem, if you already tried to install some. But if it is your first water cooler installation in a best bang for the buck build, must you be very care full not not to get small water leaks that can destroy your motherboards. The MTBF Mean Time Between Failures is lower on a water cooled than in a air cooled system.

AMD will at the beginning of February start to deliver consumer product produced on the 7nm process node. That will both give faster, and products that is cheaper to manufacture. Intel are months behind. They expect their first 10 nm consumer product, at the end of the year. If you can wait to August will a 3rd gen 7nm Threadripper with PCIe ver 4.0 be the ultimate build.

Finally will I ask you to read Ian Cutress Core i9-9980XE Conclusion in this link. He is one of the most knowledgeable reviewers in the computer industry:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13539/th ... -review/21

Regards Carsten.
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Dave Pitman

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 6:09 am

Thank you for all the comments, guys.

I would consider myself a hobbyist, although I do a dozen or so paid (~3-5 min.) projects a year.
A mix of Sony and Dji drone FHD and UHD (100 Mb/s XAVC S and mp4 via H.264) media. Pretty light editing and very little use of Fusion so far. Outputs are mostly for web use. I also would be using this for light photogrammetry projects.

Carsten, I am not in a big hurry. I am using a 'barely workable' laptop now and am really tired of the slow workflow. If there is going to be a pretty substantial bump in tech in the next couple of years maybe it's best if I put together something that's just 'good enough' for now. I don't make my living doing this. I'm not sure I can last until August, but maybe.

If I were to go with a build around the TR4 socket using a TR 1950x and wait for the new AMD gpu line in Feb, what would you guys suggest for M board and RAM? I was planning on using 1 Samsung - 970 Pro 512 GB M.2 for system, another for scratch, and a couple of 4TB 7200 spinners for general internal storage. Playing with this on PCpartpicker comes in around $3k. Mayby if I get the correct foundation I could upgrade a new CPU into this later in the year or two?
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 10:25 am

Dave Pitman wrote: Carsten, .....
If there is going to be a pretty substantial bump in tech in the next couple of years maybe it's best if I put together something that's just 'good enough' for now.....
I'm not sure I can last until August, but maybe.



Hi.

There will be a lot of changes in the hardware standards in the next 3 years.

The official release of the PCI-E 4.0 Specification have been delayed several times. If offer 2X the speed of the OLD PCI-E 3.0. And have all ready been shown by AMD in both EPYC and Ryzen CPU's. They will both together with the 3rd gen Threadripper be produced on the new 7nm process node which will be faster and cheaper to produce.

There will also be a change in RAM standard. Micron expects to start production of the new DDR5 RAMs at the end of 2019 and they will have 2X the speed of DDR4.

The PCI-E 4.0 specification was much delayed, but the next PCI-E 5.0 is on track and is expected some time in 2021. And will again improve the speed 2X compared to PCI-E 4.0

Quote:
'Obviously at some point the industry transitions to PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 which will necessitate a socket change.'

From the interview with AMD CTO and senior vice president Mark Papermaster, that confirm AMD's plans.


At CES the tech press discovered that PCIe 4.0 may come to all AMD Ryzen Socket AM4 Motherboards first PCI slot. I expect the same to be the case for all Threadripper x399 motherboard first PCI slot. Here is a link:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-r ... 38401.html


The 1950x successor 2950x is both faster and $100 cheaper. They both use the x399 motherboards. But if you can wait to August will I recommend the 3rd gen 7nm Threadripper together with one of the a new motherboards with PCIe ver 4.0 in all PCI slots.

Suggest you look here for a Free NVMe RAID upgrade for AMD x399 chipset:

https://community.amd.com/community/gam ... 99-chipset


The AMD 7nm Radeon VII will be the first Graphics card to come with PCIe ver 4.0. But I wonder if you are using the Studie version of Resolve?
And if you already now or may be later want the use the Hardware Acceleration only working on nVidea graphics cards. Personally I don't like the nVidea RTX line of graphics cards or their prices. But we can always hope that nVidea soon will come with PCIe ver 4.0 graphics cards.

Regards Carsten.
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MishaEngel

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 1:46 pm

Something like this should do the trick for your needs.

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Q77LLJ
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Q77LLJ/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5 GHz 12-Core Processor ($419.00 @ B&H) Fast enough for your source material
CPU Cooler: Enermax - Liqtech TR4 II 240 102.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($129.68 @ Newegg Business) Best sort of low cost cooler available
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Phantom Gaming 6 ATX TR4 Motherboard ($244.98 @ Newegg) Cheapest TR4 at the moment with enough possibilities
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($399.99 @ Newegg) RAM is still expensive, upgrade later when you need it, this is super fast RAM
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($127.99 @ Amazon) System drive
Storage: Samsung - 970 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($349.99 @ Samsung) Scratch drive
Storage: Seagate - IronWolf 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($237.54 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate - IronWolf 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($237.54 @ Amazon)
Case: Antec - P9 Window ATX Full Tower Case ($94.98 @ SuperBiiz) Just a big enough case
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA T2 1000 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($233.88 @ OutletPC) Solid PSU, most important part of you PC
Sub Total: $2475.57

+ $700 for the Radeon7/VEGA2

Total: $ 3175.57 ~ $ 3.200
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HaveBlue

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 4:37 am

I like how those x399s have separated x16 slots.

Don't forget a couple of monitors. 4K ones 32" big are pretty cheap now. Get at least one and hook up some spares.
W10Pro, Resolve Studio, 3.8Ghz Quad core i5, 24GB RAM, SSD and platter drives, GTX 1070 8GB, LG 10bit 4K 32" monitor with two 20" HD monitors
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Dave Pitman

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 12:04 am

Carsten, thank you for your analysis of what's on the horizon. When the new tech comes on line, it will likely be more expensive in the beginning than the tech it is replacing, yes? I think you are saying that a current mother board wont' suffice for the new AMD processors nor the new RAM? I think waiting for the new GPUs in a couple of months is reasonable, but waiting a year or more for the other things probably won't work.

Misha, thanks for the PCPP list. Has anyone reading this any experience with that mother board or another? Also, do most go with liquid cooled these days? The simplicity and quietness of air cooled is still attractive to me unless it's performance is not as good. I don't care anything about the "looks" of a build.

Thanks guys!
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MishaEngel

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 12:25 am

Dave Pitman wrote:Misha, thanks for the PCPP list. Has anyone reading this any experience with that mother board or another? Also, do most go with liquid cooled these days? The simplicity and quietness of air cooled is still attractive to me unless it's performance is not as good. I don't care anything about the "looks" of a build.

Thanks guys!


The 1920x is the cheapest cpu the meets your requirements and you can always upgrade it later to the TR39XXx later on. We have an asrock MB for TR, the one with the 10G ethernet, works great. When you start with 32 GB fast RAM you can always add 64 in a later stage. When you want to pull more power out of the MB, point a fan at the VRM heatsink and 350 Watt should be no problem(8x60A VRM's).
As long as you have a good PSU.
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 1:26 am

I'll throw in two cents here and suggest not to put off to wait for new tech because it is always going to be changing and there will always be something fantastic just around the corner. Get what works now to run what you can at the price you got. Every three years you may find yourself building another system... and maybe put some spare cash (is there such a thing?) invested into computer component manufactuers.
AMD Threadripper 1950x 16-core 3.4 GHz
32 GB Crucial DDR4 2666 ECC UDIMM RAM
AsRock Fatal1ty x399 motherboard
AMD FirePro W8100 GPU & AMD Radeon Pro WX 8200 GPU
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit version 1903, build 18362.295
DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K
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Dave Pitman

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 12:51 am

Carsten Sellberg wrote:Hi Dave.

As I see you case is it completely different from Donalds case. I don't see any advantages to handle both in the same thread. I will suggest you to make you own thread. Then can I later tell you my view on your strategy.

Regards Carsten.


Hey Cartsen,

Since you linked to this thread as a reference for Donald is why I posted there. Not a big deal.

I understand it is probably safer to buy ram in modules matching the channels. To that end, I've replaced the ram with the quad channel equivalent. I probably would not be going beyond 64Gb anyway. But who knows. Did you notice anything else that is concerning?
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Dave Pitman

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 12:52 am

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:I'll throw in two cents here and suggest not to put off to wait for new tech because it is always going to be changing and there will always be something fantastic just around the corner. Get what works now to run what you can at the price you got. Every three years you may find yourself building another system... and maybe put some spare cash (is there such a thing?) invested into computer component manufactuers.


Very true, Jeffery. Thanks.
How do you like the AsRock Fatal1ty x399 motherboard?
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 10:40 am

Dave Pitman wrote: I understand it is probably safer to buy ram in modules matching the channels.


Hi again Dave.

If you intend to upgrade some time to 64 GB Ram and may be again to 128 GB Ram will I like to tell you, that PCIe ver 5.0 is now expected to be implemented together with DDR5 from 2021 Q1.
As DDR5 is double as fast as DDR4 will you not want to upgrade with a lot of OLD DDR4 Ram,
But you can't get DDR5 motherboards before 2021.

I actually expect 2x16 GB ram modules to work in a QUAD channel Threadripper system, but to be slower as it will limit the Ram memory bandwidth. How much slower will depend on the number of CPU cores and the way you use Resolve. What Resolution and frame rate will you use? Will you use Hardware encoding/decoding only available in the Studio version?

I can't find a link with information on a Ryzen with a single Ram module or a Threadripper with dual Ram module But here is a link with some information on some games ruining on a Intel Dual channel CPU and a single Ram module, just to let you have some ideas of the difference:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CabaloftheBuil ... cabalbench


When suggesting changes will I exchange your Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drives with the new Samsung 970 EVO Plus, as it is faster to write at a similar cost. Here is a link to a Review:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761/th ... ssd-review

Regards Carsten.
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Joshua_G

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 11:11 am

MishaEngel wrote:Something like this should do the trick for your needs.

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Q77LLJ
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Q77LLJ/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5 GHz 12-Core Processor ($419.00 @ B&H) Fast enough for your source material
CPU Cooler: Enermax - Liqtech TR4 II 240 102.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($129.68 @ Newegg Business) Best sort of low cost cooler available
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Phantom Gaming 6 ATX TR4 Motherboard ($244.98 @ Newegg) Cheapest TR4 at the moment with enough possibilities
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($399.99 @ Newegg) RAM is still expensive, upgrade later when you need it, this is super fast RAM
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($127.99 @ Amazon) System drive
Storage: Samsung - 970 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($349.99 @ Samsung) Scratch drive
Storage: Seagate - IronWolf 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($237.54 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate - IronWolf 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($237.54 @ Amazon)
Case: Antec - P9 Window ATX Full Tower Case ($94.98 @ SuperBiiz) Just a big enough case
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA T2 1000 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($233.88 @ OutletPC) Solid PSU, most important part of you PC
Sub Total: $2475.57

+ $700 for the Radeon7/VEGA2

Total: $ 3175.57 ~ $ 3.200

Very good suggestion for editing-only PC. If it will be used also for grading, you should have a second monitor for grading. The BenQ SW271 is recommended: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... hd_4k.html . You'd need also a DeckLink card to feed the grading monitor, either the DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K for up to 2160p30 or the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G for up to 2160p60: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink .
DaVinci Resolve Studio, (usually) latest stable version/Windows 10 Pro/AMD 1920X/32GB RAM/RX Vega56 8G/Dell U2412M.
Retired electronics technician and sound engineer, long-time amateur photographer, beginner hobbyist filmmaker for personal uses.
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Best Bang for the Buck (1st Qtr 2019)

PostThu Feb 07, 2019 9:42 am

To answer Dave, the AsRock Fatality x399 has been good (no problems.) I've used ASUS before and figured would try AsRock this time because of: three M.2 slots on board; 10 Gb/s built-in; ECC ability and a bit better price. I would have preferred a workstation board as the Fatality has only two full 16 lane PCIe slots WITHOUT switching. (would have liked four.) But there were no workstation type boards for Threadripper 950x when I built. At the time I figured I would only do better upgrading to server grade, but the price increase was way too much.
AMD Threadripper 1950x 16-core 3.4 GHz
32 GB Crucial DDR4 2666 ECC UDIMM RAM
AsRock Fatal1ty x399 motherboard
AMD FirePro W8100 GPU & AMD Radeon Pro WX 8200 GPU
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit version 1903, build 18362.295
DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K

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