Blackmagic Forum

When I try to change setting in Davinci Resolve lite (free version) I cannot select 16:9, only square and cinemascope. All my videos have been shot in 16:9. If I convert in square, etc, the output videos are warped or out of proportion. Can someone please assist me in configuring setting so I can keep my videos in 16:9. Much appreciated for any advice. Thanks.

You are confusing pixel aspect ratio and picture aspect ratio. You can choose any format, like 1920 by 1080, which is 16 by 9 and just check square pixels if your camera is not delivering something else.

Uli Plank wrote:You can choose any format...

You can not choose square pixel for PAL (720x576) and NTSC (720x480 or 720x486).

SD was never square in the digital domain, that's right.

Vit Reiter wrote:You can not choose square pixel for PAL (720x576) and NTSC (720x480 or 720x486).

But can I somehow create a custom project that is 720x480 and square pixels?

I've got some old footage that I have rendered it with Avidemux with those parameters. I need to revisit it to add some audio effects in order to get rid of Youtube's Copyright issue, but even if I try to use custom settings in Resolve the square pixel option goes inactive with 720x480 resolution.

Is there a way around it? I use Resolve 16.

tokintmash wrote:

Vit Reiter wrote:You can not choose square pixel for PAL (720x576) and NTSC (720x480 or 720x486).

But can I somehow create a custom project that is 720x480 and square pixels?

I've got some old footage that I have rendered it with Avidemux with those parameters. I need to revisit it to add some audio effects in order to get rid of Youtube's Copyright issue, but even if I try to use custom settings in Resolve the square pixel option goes inactive with 720x480 resolution.

Is there a way around it? I use Resolve 16.

No, there isn't. Blackmagic ignore our request export PAL and NTSC resolutions with square pixel. They are thinking the videos with these resolutions don't exist. I have to using other NLE for work with these videos.

Yes, there is. Don't use the preset, but switch to "Custom" in the Deliver page and set "Square" under Advanced Settings.

Two good references:

1) check out Brad Allen's Aspect Ratio Cheat Sheet, which provides very good info on specific aspect ratios and pixel counts for different resolutions...

https://www.unravel.com.au/aspect-ratio-cheat-sheet

2) carefully read Chapter 9 of the Resolve 16.2 manual, "Image Sizing and Resolution Independence," which is a pretty vital chapter (starting on p. 260). It provides a ton of information on all the options available in timeline setup, monitoring, and final delivery. Resolve has many, many different possible paths for resolution, and they may initially seem confusing, but they give you many different ways to accomplish the task.

Uli Plank wrote:Yes, there is. Don't use the preset, but switch to "Custom" in the Deliver page and set "Square" under Advanced Settings.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help. The custom setting automatically switches to the anamorphic pixel aspect ratio if you enter PAL or NTSC resolution. DaVinci cannot export these resolutions with square pixels. You can try it yourself.

Marc Wielage wrote:Two good references:

1) check out Brad Allen's Aspect Ratio Cheat Sheet, which provides very good info on specific aspect ratios and pixel counts for different resolutions...

https://www.unravel.com.au/aspect-ratio-cheat-sheet

I've explained this many times in other threads. The discussion is not about what is right and what the standards are. As an encoding technician, I stand at the end of the production process and my task is to prepare video material for distribution. If I get a 720x576 or 720x480 video with a square pixel (and I really don't know why the author made a video with non-standard parameters), I can't use DaVinci to process it.

Marc Wielage wrote:2) carefully read Chapter 9 of the Resolve 16.2 manual, "Image Sizing and Resolution Independence," which is a pretty vital chapter (starting on p. 260). It provides a ton of information on all the options available in timeline setup, monitoring, and final delivery. Resolve has many, many different possible paths for resolution, and they may initially seem confusing, but they give you many different ways to accomplish the task.

Can you export video with PAL or NTSC with square pixels at DaVinci? Sizing options in DaVinci are really wide and their use is also very complicated, but we just can't export PAL or NTSC resolution with a square pixel.

Vit Reiter wrote:but we just can't export PAL or NTSC resolution with a square pixel

...or import without changing it for that matter, as it seems.

Yes, we can:

We are talking about PAL (720x576) and NTSC (720x480 or 720x486). Please show us how you get square pixels for those.

Resolve auto overwrite won't let you, so stop trying
Why do you want square PAL/NTSC if it provides very wrong aspect?
There is no such a thing like square PAL/NTSC so don't try to invent it.

If you want to "square" PAL/NTSC recording then you just do 1024/768x576 or 854/640x480 or any 16x/4x3 frame which is close to original resolution as upscaling won't gain you much at all. If your original recording has small black bars on sides (should be around 9 pixels) you need to crop them.

If your files show up wrongly on import it means they have wrong spec flag and you just need to manually overwrite it to 4x3/16x9 (in clip attributes) and then all will be fine in standard 4x3/16x9 project.

Uli Plank wrote:Yes, we can:

Bildschirmfoto 2021-01-25 um 06.43.25.png

I'm not talking about converting PAL / NTSC resolutions to the corresponding squared pixel resolutions.
But I think you understand what we're talking about and you're just kidding.

Try exporting with a square pixel:
720x480
720x486
720x576

PS: Don't write that they are not standard resolutions, that it is absolutely wrong and that I don't need it, please!

Of course there is no such a thing like square pixel for those formats and there is ZERO reason for it.

Besides- all of this is just a flag which is meaningless if not set on export/read on import properly. Some tools don't set/read it anyway, so always show you 1:1 aspect.

No idea why you need to write 1:1 flagged PAL/NTSC files?
If you need it so baldy then you just use either 4x3 or 16x9 project (depending on the source, so it's properly inserted into SD frame) and after export overwrite flag to 1:1. There are tools for it.
Not a single properly behaving NLE will do it for you, so you're on your own.

Your problem lies in your source. It has exactly the issue which you retrying to replicate- missing or bad flag!
You simply overwrite bad aspect flag in clip attributes setting 4x3/16x9 depending on nature of the source and use standard matching project. There is no other need. Resolve provides all needed manual settings to work with any SD source file, even if it's badly (or not at all) flagged originally.

Resolve flags everything according to "analog" math, but uses "digit" 720 (opposite to maybe more accurate to the standard 702/704) as active lines for SD exports. This means flagging is slightly broken. It's an old bug which still has not been fixed.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Resolve auto overwrite won't let you, so stop trying
Why do you want square PAL/NTSC if it provides very wrong aspect?
There is no such a thing like square PAL/NTSC so don't try to invent it.

If you want to "square" PAL/NTSC recording then you just do 1024/768x576 or 854/640x480 or any 16x/4x3 frame which is close to original resolution as upscaling won't gain you much at all. If your original recording has small black bars on sides (should be around 9 pixels) you need to crop them.

If your files show up wrongly on import it means they have wrong spec flag and you just need to manually overwrite it to 4x3/16x9 (in clip attributes) and then all will be fine in standard 4x3/16x9 project.

I describe my situation over and over again, why sometimes (sometimes often) I need NLE to export to resolutions: 720x480, 720x486 and 720x576 with a square pixel regardless of standards.

It's simple - I get a sources that have such a resolution to process. (I often get sources that have all the parameters crazy - resolution, pixel aspect ratio, any height of letterboxies or pillarboxies, any fps or variable, swapped fields. Sometimes the image is distorted.)
These materials routinely come from developing countries, although it has improved a lot recently and most of the new footage is 1080p or 720p. But there are hundreds of them that will surprise, such as 1920x1080 with an anamorphic pixel, etc. This is a reality and DaVinci is quite suitable for processing such materials, except that the mentioned resolutions cannot be exported and I need them quite often.
Recalculating into standard formats for platforms with this content where I deliver does not make sense. They are not limited to standard formats. It is important that the image is entire to fit on phones or tablets and that it is not distorted, it needs a square pixel. (Delivery to VOD platforms generally has slightly different principles than we are used to for broadcast and DCP production.)

All that would make me happy is a small thing, unlock the preset for PAL and NTSC resolution and not hide the possibility to choose a squared pixel.

If you desperately need such a format, I'd suggest that you change just one of the dimensions by two pixels and you can activate square again. Why not only one? Most codecs expect even values.

Uli Plank wrote:If you desperately need such a format, I'd suggest that you change just one of the dimensions by two pixels and you can activate square again. Why not only one? Most codecs expect even values.

I know, Uli. This is also my way of solving, if I don't want to switch to Final Cut for 7.

So you are saying that you receive 720x480 or 720x576 files which with 1:1 (and 1:1 PAR) preview show correct aspect and you want to preserve it?
This is rather impossible as it would mean they are massively cropped- there is no other way to insert any proper 4x3 or 16x9 source (surely those files originated at some standard sizing) into PAL/NTSC frame at 1:1 aspect.

Are you sure they just don't miss aspect flag and are always somehow distorted when preview at 1:1 aspect? I just don't believe they are showing correct aspect at 1:1. They are most likely 4x3, so either slightly stretched or squeezed and you keep assuming they should be kept as 1:1, which is wrong.
You must stop thinking they are 1:1, because they say so (any non-flagged file will be 1:1, but it doesn't mean this is its real nature at all!). You just manually overwrite flag to correct file nature (most likely) 4x3. 16x9 are easy to spot- they are massively squeezed when watched at 1:1.

Upload sample as (even if I've seen a lot) I never seen such an example

Also- no idea how FCP is helping you in this case. This is not going to show properly on any standard preview. It's just strange, custom file which happen to have 720x480/720x576 resolution, so file with some crazy proportion. Who on earth would make it and what for?
Sorry, not buying it.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:No idea why you need to write 1:1 flagged PAL/NTSC files?
If you need it so baldy then you just use either 4x3 or 16x9 project (depending on the source, so it's properly inserted into SD frame) and after export overwrite flag to 1:1. There are tools for it.

This solution didn't work for us. The converter we use to produce video content for VOD platforms distorts the image. I don't know why and I can't say the details, but thank you for the advice.

PS: The files I'm talking about aren't PAL or NTSC. They are 720x576 or 720x480 video with a square pixel, mostly progressive, with 12 - 60 fps. If they have an anamorphic pixel aspect ratio - but often does not match PAL or NTSC, the resulting file changes parameter 720 to the value corresponding to the pixel aspect ratio.

Who on earth makes file at 720/480 or 720/576 aspect ?

I understand 9x16 files which go for some billboards. They have strange aspect but it makes sense as they have very specific usage.
Why on earth would you make custom file which is 720x480/720x576)? This is 1.5/1.25 aspect ratio. It will never fill any screen properly. It's pure joke. Can't you educate these people that this pure crap and they should produce files with standard aspect around 16x9?

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:So you are saying that you receive 720x480 or 720x576 files which with 1:1 (and 1:1 PAR) preview show correct aspect and you want to preserve it?
This is rather impossible as it would mean they are massively cropped- there is no other way to insert any proper 4x3 or 16x9 source (surely those files originated at some standard sizing) into PAL/NTSC frame at 1:1 aspect.

Are you sure they just don't miss aspect flag and are always somehow distorted when preview at 1:1 aspect? I just don't believe they are showing correct aspect at 1:1. They are most likely 4x3, so either slightly stretched or squeezed and you keep assuming they should be kept as 1:1, which is wrong.
You must stop thinking they are 1:1, because they say so (any non-flagged file will be 1:1, but it doesn't mean this is its real nature at all!). You just manually overwrite flag to correct file nature (most likely) 4x3. 16x9 are easy to spot- they are massively squeezed when watched at 1:1.

Upload sample as (even if I've seen a lot) I never seen such an example

Also- no idea how FCP is helping you in this case. This is not going to show properly on any standard preview. It's just strange, custom file which happen to have 720x480/720x576 resolution, so file with some crazy proportion. Who on earth would make it and what for?
Sorry, not buying it.

Andrew, you can see that you have no experience with production from the third world. Sometimes my colleagues and I watch it and don't understand how they managed to achieve it. Not to mention the audio and content!

But I am convinced that DaVinci must be able to process such material as well. In fact, it handles well except for this export. I think that in the art of making a watchable video of anything, I am the most experienced person in the world.

I would send a sample, but I have nothing to do right now. The archive is in a distribution company and I now work in my studio because covid-19.

PS: Yes, I'm sure I'll find the right aspect ratio. Sometimes it's difficult because they change during the movie.

Vit Reiter wrote:

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:No idea why you need to write 1:1 flagged PAL/NTSC files?
If you need it so baldy then you just use either 4x3 or 16x9 project (depending on the source, so it's properly inserted into SD frame) and after export overwrite flag to 1:1. There are tools for it.

This solution didn't work for us. The converter we use to produce video content for VOD platforms distorts the image. I don't know why and I can't say the details, but thank you for the advice.

It should.
Load 1:1 flagged (or missing flag) file into eg. 720x576 4x3 project.
After import change aspect to match project (so Resolve does no scaling at all), so 4x3 PAL and create new timeline based on it.
Export as PAL 4x3 and then overwrite aspect to 1:1.
Source and export will be identical.

Vit Reiter wrote:Andrew, you can see that you have no experience with production from the third world. Sometimes my colleagues and I watch it and don't understand how they managed to achieve it. Not to mention the audio and content!

But I am convinced that DaVinci must be able to process such material as well. In fact, it handles well except for this export. I think that in the art of making a watchable video of anything, I am the most experienced person in the world.

I would send a sample, but I have nothing to do right now. The archive is in a distribution company and I now work in my studio because covid-19.

PS: Yes, I'm sure I'll find the right aspect ratio. Sometimes it's difficult because they change during the movie.

We don't need to go that far. I've seen loads of crap from Europe and USA as well.
I have not seen PAL/NTSC frame size files at 1:1 aspect though Seen badly converted, upscaled with messed up aspect, but not those

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:

Vit Reiter wrote:

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:No idea why you need to write 1:1 flagged PAL/NTSC files?
If you need it so baldy then you just use either 4x3 or 16x9 project (depending on the source, so it's properly inserted into SD frame) and after export overwrite flag to 1:1. There are tools for it.

This solution didn't work for us. The converter we use to produce video content for VOD platforms distorts the image. I don't know why and I can't say the details, but thank you for the advice.

It should.
Load 1:1 flagged (or missing flag) file into eg. 720x576 4x3 project.
After import change aspect to match project (so Resolve does not scaling at all), so 4x3 PAL and create new timeline based on it.
Export as PAL 4x3 and then overwrite aspect to 1:1.
Source and export will be identical.

Yes, that's how it has to work. It's logical. We will do new tests with our developers.

Vit Reiter wrote:The files I'm talking about aren't PAL or NTSC. They are 720x576 or 720x480 video with a square pixel, mostly progressive, with 12 - 60 fps.

This is exactly my case. I must also correct myself here. I am not an expert as well, so I made a mistake describing my files as PAL/NTSC. I did not know these mean more than just resolution.

I made my files years ago from VOB files. I used Avidemux. I run them through deinterlace filter, added subtitles and saved them as 720x480 square pixels. Any other combination resulted in a stretched aspect ratio when playing back if I remember correctly.

You must have cut something off then. 720 was always either scaled down to 640 (for NTSC) or up to 768 (for PAL).

tokintmash wrote:

Vit Reiter wrote:The files I'm talking about aren't PAL or NTSC. They are 720x576 or 720x480 video with a square pixel, mostly progressive, with 12 - 60 fps.

This is exactly my case. I must also correct myself here. I am not an expert as well, so I made a mistake describing my files as PAL/NTSC. I did not know these mean more than just resolution.

I made my files years ago from VOB files. I used Avidemux. I run them through deinterlace filter, added subtitles and saved them as 720x480 square pixels. Any other combination resulted in a stretched aspect ratio when playing back if I remember correctly.

How are you going to fit 4x3 or 16x9 image into 720x480 frame which is 1.5 aspect with squared pixels? Either massively distorted or crazy cropped. There is no other option without using non square PAR.

Your files are not square pixel in reality (specially when they originated from DVD). They are 4x3 most likely as this may not be so obvious if you don't look for it.
As I said- problem lies in source files. By trying to process them as 1:1 you just keep propagating issue further.

No one uses PAL/NTSC frame size for custom web files as they have wrong aspect (without non-square pixel aspect flag).

It's best that @Vic send us some samples, no? Best with some known round objects like a ball, wheels, etc.