Timeline Curve Editor is useless

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philtimm

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Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Sep 04, 2019 2:42 pm

I have a very simple timeline with a series of segments of video. I have animated an x position transform - just a simple right to left move - and want to tweak the ease curves.

But when I expand the Curve Editor, with Position X selected, the y axis covers values of around -8000 to +8000, so 16000. My animation goes from -300 to 200. That appears, to all intents and purposes, as a flat line. I go to any other parameters (none of which have any keyframes set) and the scale changes; Opacity, for example, displays a sensible 0 to 100 scale.

That's got to be a bug, right, because that is effectively useless. Either the y axis must be zoomable, or the scale needs to auto zoom to cover the full extents of visible parameters values.

Here's an image: https://i.imgur.com/whQTLnQ.png

I have read the section on this in the manual - page 821 - and can only conclude this is a bug.

If it's relevant, the footage is FHD H.264, no Super Scaling, editing in an FHD timeline.
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Sergey Mirontsev

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Sep 04, 2019 3:30 pm

Zoom? Click and drag.
Attachments
zoom.gif
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Sep 04, 2019 6:04 pm

Sergey Mirontsev wrote:Zoom? Click and drag.


That is for Retime speeds, the same thing doesn't seem to work for Position scale setting.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 12:52 am

FWIW I'm seeing the same thing - 16.1 B2

Retime scale can be adjusted but none of the others seem to be able to.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 am

I think BMD expects you to use the on-screen transform controls rather than the curve editor... This comes up every once in a while but I don't think the answer satisfies those asking the question. Perhaps one of the Resolve experts can explain how transform curves are intended to be edited?

editing_position_transform_curve_resolve_16.png
Editing position transform curve
editing_position_transform_curve_resolve_16.png (517.85 KiB) Viewed 6116 times
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 7:43 am

Sergey Mirontsev wrote:Zoom? Click and drag.


My mind is blown. I had no idea you could do that. It would be helpful if the interface indicated that was a control rather than merely a displayed value.

However, as the next comment said, it doesn't work for position

Thank you for posting, especially the attachment!
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philtimm

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 7:45 am

Steve Alexander wrote:I think BMD expects you to use the on-screen transform controls rather than the curve editor...
editing_position_transform_curve_resolve_16.png


If that is the case, then remove the parameters from the curve editor.

DON'T do that, of course, because there are times when I am editing parameter curves in Flame, and I need to shape the tangent handles for a bunch of different things to the same shape, so that scaling/positioning/rotation all behave in the same way.

Having one of those behaviours only editable in a different interface makes doing that impossible.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 11:33 am

As I said, I'm speculating. I find it very odd that the scale can't be zoomed-in in the curve editor - that really seems like a bug (or a missed opportunity ;-))
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Sep 05, 2019 2:57 pm

Its a nice thing if it also work for the zoom etc :)
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostTue Oct 01, 2019 11:07 am

I am sitting with EXACTLY the same problem as the OP.

position X transform in the curve editor, impossible with the scale of 15360 to -15360. Only want to move it a smidge, but smoothly hence the need for curves.

Useless!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostTue Oct 01, 2019 3:24 pm

philtimm wrote:I want to tweak the ease curves [of] an x position


viewtopic.php?f=32&t=98737
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Zalamander

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Oct 03, 2019 7:55 am

I was just hit this problem too! I need to be able to scale the transform curves to fine tune the ease in curves. Now the curve just shows as a straight line and is basically useless for fine tuning.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Oct 03, 2019 2:04 pm

We are looking into this.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Oct 04, 2019 5:05 am

Thank you Peter. It would be fantastic if we could get reliable keyframe editing on the Edit page!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Oct 04, 2019 6:59 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:We are looking into this.

Excellent. Thank you! While you are at it how about a little fit to screen button to auto scale it. Like there is in Fusion graph window.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostTue Feb 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:We are looking into this.


It's now 5 months later. Can you please provide us with an update on this issue, Peter?
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 7:35 pm

Please do something it drives me . . . . I'm a studio user of Davinci and Fusion, completely switch from Adobe to DaVinci. I just wanted to fix a bit of motion on the y-axis, and I can't do this with this unique (as seen on promotion) timeline curve editor. Suggestion: Add a popup short description on top of any button or any interactive or informative UI if the user hovers a mouse over this area for 2-3 sec and turn this function on by default. It will help a lot because even after years I was finding features, I thought they don't exist in DaVinci.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 2:41 pm

I'm literally checking every single day hoping there's a Resolve update which includes that curve editor fix.
It is a pretty big thing!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Mar 06, 2020 8:32 am

Just ran into this issue myself. I had a zoom keyframe set to 10 and cannot see it in the curve editor as it maxes out at 4.00 so any keyframe above 4.00 disappears.

As mentioned above the retime scale % is adjustable (seems to stop at 200% though) but nothing else appears to be adjustable. Also, a 'Zoom to fit' button same as in the spline editor on the Fusion page would work well here too.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 12:36 am

I just joined the forum so I could bump this; I'm running into the same issue where I've opened the curve bar to edit a keyframe transition (X+Y zoom on a Rich Text Title) but it appears to be zoomed in so far that I can't edit it, and the first keyframe isn't even visible. Can't drag the scale to compensate either:

curvebar.jpg
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Any ideas how to fix this, or are we still in the same boat a year later?
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri May 01, 2020 1:00 pm

Have same issue where my key frames are outside of curve editor range. And there are no ways to expand those ranges, except Speed, it's so annoying. Been trying to switch from premiere but it's so hard.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu May 07, 2020 10:45 am

I also come from Adobe and this is super anoying. As workaround I make all animation in the Fusion tab.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon May 18, 2020 8:20 am

I have just stumbled onto this my self, too. So frustrating. I'm literally at a standstill. Any patch for Resolve 15? (I'm stuck on Sierra until this project is done so I can't upgrade, but it appears it hasn't been fixed in later versions anyway.

I mean, even Avid has a button to scale the curve editor to fit the min and max keyframe values.

Other than that, I'm not running into any other problems that I can't figure out.

Thanks in advance,

Jonno
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon May 25, 2020 2:22 pm

up

been struggling with that for a while. please improve this.

good work on the software btw :)
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Jun 03, 2020 4:34 pm

My vote for improvement of the Curve Editor, too.

This drives me crazy, everytime i have to use this.
Just does not feel professional working with the curve editor at the moment.

Ideally, i would like to see a improved curve editor with ability to be popped out as a free scalable window.
This would give so much nice oportunities for fine tuning animations.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Jul 02, 2020 7:48 pm

+1
BMD please work on an update.
I personally wished for a dedicated window for keyframe animation as it is in the Fusion tab or Premiere.
I wanna add that the ease in/out is not working for me. I've exported a clip applying linear key frames to the position change, then exported the same clip with ease in and out, and compared both clips by laying them on top of each other with 50% opacity. The results are 1 to 1 identical.

Also a bit off topic here but it seems like the shortcut for "move selected keyframes right" doesn't work. Up, down, and left does work fine. I'm using the standard Resolve keyboard layout. Anyone else experiencing the same issue?

I'm using Resolve 16.2.3.015
Last edited by DirectedByMarvin on Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Jul 02, 2020 8:04 pm

^---- what they all said! +1 from me too.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Jul 03, 2020 6:42 pm

Back around Resolve 9 or so, the Color page had a mode where you could zoom the color Curve up into a larger window, so you could have more precision in entering and moving points.

I’d like to see something similar in the Edit Page timeline curves UI. Either that, or have a dedicated panel for animation curves and keyframes, just like the Color Page already does.

This is a pretty major weakness in Resolve, and until the situation improves, it’s very difficult to recommend trying out Resolve to the other editors in my facility, because they will
Invariably run into the limitations in the curve/keyframe editor, and go back to Premiere with a very bad taste in their mouths.


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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Jul 10, 2020 10:13 pm

Using v 16.2.3, and it has an option to add curve handles on x/y position, but it never really looks like it's "easing" at all. I'm very confused. I can make it do all kinds of wild things, but I can't make anything animate with an actual non-linear appearance.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostTue Jul 28, 2020 4:46 am

+100! if BlackMagic can solve the timeline curve editor issues!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Jul 31, 2020 12:00 am

This is still an issue for me on 16.2.5.015... Pretty frustrating as the keyframes show an eased line, but the movement is linear. Please fix!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Jul 31, 2020 1:43 am

benroper wrote:This is still an issue for me on 16.2.5.015... Pretty frustrating as the keyframes show an eased line, but the movement is linear. Please fix!

No, no... more features first. I want more new features! :-)

To be fair, BMD has been focusing on tidying up the "broken bits" of late but there are still some legacy bugs that have dragged on for many, many versions which we all hope will "eventually" be fixed or improved upon.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Aug 21, 2020 4:36 pm

I think I've hit the same wall. I'm seeing keys outside of the curve window with no way to zoom-to-fit all the keys or navigate within the curve window whatsoever.
Is there any better workaround than "don't use the curve editor"?
outOfBoundsKeys.png
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Aug 21, 2020 8:52 pm

Unfortunately no. Keyframing in the editing section is pretty useless as is. I use fusion to do that work which is a true pain in the ass but really the only way right now. Also forget about easy in and easy out. Although bezier is technically available, it in fact doesn’t do anything.
Really interesting that no BMD moderator has commented on that...
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Oct 08, 2020 1:24 am

Any update?
Plz
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Dec 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Hello. Just wanted to +1 to all of the above. It's so much faster to do things in the Edit window instead of Fusion that I really would love to do simple yet precise keyframe tweaks in the Edit window. Thanks BMD for all you do, though, because all in all the product is really awesome.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Dec 31, 2020 12:33 am

2 year old thread, but I'll add a +1 to this. After searching for a while I finally came here with disappointment in my heart lol.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Feb 08, 2021 9:19 am

It's now 2021... Please, please make this usable!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostTue Feb 09, 2021 4:04 pm

I'll add my voice to this. I'm a new user, so it may be that I'm missing something - but it sure looks to me like the curve editor is useless for trying to fine tune the ease on Transform X/Y position keyframes because you can't adjust the scale of the Y-axis (the range of values) in the Curve Editor. The scale on that axis is so large that the graph is a straight line, and any attempt to drag any point on it results in wild excursions of image movement.

This is especially frustrating as a new user because the curve editor is the most obvious place to go to try to do this. I was driving myself nuts trying to grasp how it could be done until I finally ran across this thread and realized it wasn't just me. Who knows how many other people have tried this, failed, and gave up on Resolve?

What's needed is adjustable Y-axis scaling for all values in the Edit Page's Timeline Curve Editor.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 7:54 pm

Yeah,
I've actually created an account to also push this issue!

It's so sad that they miss this opportunity to have an easy & fast way to use bezier curves on small or bigger keyframe-changes.
I use a rotation-angle shift from -900 to +900 and there's no way to edit the ease in..

Please give us a simple way to zoom in/out in that curves window. Shouldn't be that big of a deal, or?

Thanks!
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 11:14 pm

Any update on this? This is a major limitation of Resolve's editor. Hopefully this gets addressed soon!
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Phil999

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 5:45 pm

vertical zoom in Curve Editor is necessary.
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostSun Apr 18, 2021 9:47 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:We are looking into this.


Alright, it's been 1 1/2 years now and no update has addressed this issue.
Can someone from the BM team please try to actually use the curve editor in the edit page and confirm that its either working for them or acknowledge that this is a MASSIVE bug?
The manual is currently simply stating something that in practice does not work .
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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 1:26 am

This was the first thing that I came across when starting with Resolve where I said, "well, THAT's useless". However, even though we can't effectively edit the curve in this editor, you CAN edit every keyframe value in the curve editor whether you can see it or not, no matter the scale. You can use the "</>" keys to move between keyframes and then adjust the values to exactly what you want in the Inspector. You can also still change any keyframe to bezier or straight, ease in/out, but what you CAN'T change are the properties of those beziers in the Inspector. So we're screwed if they are not visible or at a reasonable scale. Not being able to zoom indicates that BMD either don't understand how people use this functionality or they don't use their SW (or test it) themselves for useability. A year and a half can't be passed off as an "oversight". This shouldn't be a difficult problem to solve.

I think BMD needs to seriously reconsider their user support structure. This is a User Forum, and I don't expect BMD spends much time here, except for the occasional Peter appearance. I've found their Support to be OK, sometimes within a few days, sometimes weeks, and sometimes they even acknowledge that I've actually found a bug that they can reproduce - and passed along to engineering.

What they need is a better way to let users report issues, provide sufficient information, all entered into a database that THEY ACTIVELY WORK and some indication to users what, if anything, is being done about it. We can keep guessing among ourselves on this forum as long as we want, but that doesn't make things happen. Reporting to their Support Desk is a better approach, but there is currently little feedback, or tracking of issues that we can see. They need something like GitHub's Issue Tracking to keep users informed and allow others to provide additional details to help actually SOLVE the problem.

All the plus one's here don't matter if nobody is adding them up.
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Sean Nelson

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 4:27 am

GrizzlyAK wrote:What they need is a better way to let users report issues, provide sufficient information, all entered into a database that THEY ACTIVELY WORK and some indication to users what, if anything, is being done about it.

I'd like to see this. I've reported a couple of minor bugs here in the forum, and taken the time to document the steps needed to reproduce them. It would be nice to know if anyone is actually paying attention.
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GrizzlyAK

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 6:18 pm

Hi Sean, I recommend resubmitting your bug reports to their support page or email instead of the forum. The forum is just a place for users to commiserate (and get/provide assistance from/to others), and for BMD to occasionally pop in and take the pulse of the community. Support is the only way you will be assured that someone at BMD actually sees it and takes any action. The chances of them finding it here and doing anything about it is slim. But I have had 100% response from their support team.


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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 9:35 pm

GrizzlyAK wrote:Hi Sean, I recommend resubmitting your bug reports to their support page or email instead of the forum...

Thanks for the recommendation - I'll see if I can dig up the bug report posts I made and email the support team with them.
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Roman Kaelin

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Re: Timeline Curve Editor is useless

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 11:51 am

I just stumbled into this very problem as well. It's impossible to edit the tangents properly for small values. Without being able to zoom in and out some very basic functionality is missing. I really hope this gets addressed soon, even though this thread is years old.

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