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16.1 FINAL still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:17 am
by Peter Fizgal
This has been reported and acknowledged multiple times already, but there is still no easing on position keyframes in the latest beta (16.1 beta 3)

I understand this must be a tough nut to crack, but come on... for a company that brings the worlds best color grading software to the masses, this should be kindergarten stuff.

Please, please fix postion keyframe easing.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:20 am
by DanielBoist
i can´t believe it...
I absolutely LOVE DR - but this so...Adobe-like!

Please guys, keep this post on top of this board until BM gets this done.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:03 pm
by Sergey Mirontsev
I have...

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:24 pm
by deanphillips1991
Do you mean that they don't do what they say?

There aren't as many animation options as PP.

Would love to know a bit more :)

I know the lack of easing in OFX is frustrating.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
by Jean Claude
Can you post a video or give a link for what PP does with Keyframe? :)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:53 am
by Mike Warren
Jean Claude wrote:Can you post a video or give a link for what PP does with Keyframe? :)


Start at about 3 minutes in on this video:


Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:14 am
by robertcross
I've seen this talked about many times but no one seems to refer to it in the correct terms.

What we've all been wanting (as shown in the video Mike linked to) is temporal interpolation which eases the speed something starts and stops moving. Spatial interpolation appears to be the only type that's currently implemented for the position keyframes.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:16 am
by Jean Claude
I did that in 3 minutes. This is very very quickly and nothing to envy PP.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-zQ4m ... V2T5FmPma2
(~83 Mo)
I think some merit:
RTFM Pages 819 + 820 + 821 + 822 + 823 + 824.
As long as doing the rest of the manual too. ;)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:25 am
by Sergey Mirontsev
No?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:33 am
by Jean Claude
Hello Sergey,

Certainly but I'm afraid that some do not forget to use the right button of their mouse ... :)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:55 pm
by Tom Early
I've tested this in both the Inspector, and the clip graph in the timeline. The option for position easing appears, and I can visually create an easing curve, but it has no effect.

No matter what I do, position keyframes have no easing in the Edit page, so I have to do this in Fusion. I hope this gets fixed in the next update.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:47 pm
by Jean Claude
Tom Early wrote:I've tested this in both the Inspector, and the clip graph in the timeline. The option for position easing appears, and I can visually create an easing curve, but it has no effect.

No matter what I do, position keyframes have no easing in the Edit page, so I have to do this in Fusion. I hope this gets fixed in the next update.


If it does not work for you, it's because you're doing something wrong.

Sorry.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:56 pm
by Tom Early
Jean Claude wrote:
Tom Early wrote:I've tested this in both the Inspector, and the clip graph in the timeline. The option for position easing appears, and I can visually create an easing curve, but it has no effect.

No matter what I do, position keyframes have no easing in the Edit page, so I have to do this in Fusion. I hope this gets fixed in the next update.


If it does not work for you, it's because you're doing something wrong.

Sorry.


I know what I'm doing. It's a bug. If it works for you then great, but I'm sure you must be aware that some bugs are system specific.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:02 pm
by Jean Claude
Tom Early wrote:
Jean Claude wrote:
Tom Early wrote:I've tested this in both the Inspector, and the clip graph in the timeline. The option for position easing appears, and I can visually create an easing curve, but it has no effect.

No matter what I do, position keyframes have no easing in the Edit page, so I have to do this in Fusion. I hope this gets fixed in the next update.


If it does not work for you, it's because you're doing something wrong.

Sorry.


I know what I'm doing. It's a bug. If it works for you then great, but I'm sure you must be aware that some bugs are system specific.


Sorry,

You're kidding: it's not a bug. You only watched the little clip I made.

This is not enough?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:13 pm
by Hendrik Proosa
Jean Claude, your video demonstrated easing curve, but no actual easing effect on your clip, manual scroll showed some jerky movement, I didn't see anything being eased in your demo. As has been discussed in plenty occasions already, curves may show whatever, actual motion is not properly eased.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:30 pm
by Jean Claude
Hendrick:
it's that I did not click right with the mouse.

Open the KF panel, add a KF. Right click et voilà

KF_editor.jpg
KF_editor.jpg (30.66 KiB) Viewed 4074 times

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:37 pm
by Tom Early
Jean Claude wrote:
Tom Early wrote:I know what I'm doing. It's a bug. If it works for you then great, but I'm sure you must be aware that some bugs are system specific.


Sorry,

You're kidding: it's not a bug. You only watched the little clip I made.

This is not enough?


What part of 'some bugs are system specific' do you not understand? It means that something can be working on your system, but not on my system or someone else's system, and it will still be a bug. So no, I'm not kidding. I didn't even watch your clip because I didn't need to in order to know that this bug exists.

Now that I have watched your clip though, I have to say that no, it is not enough, because as Hendrick says, it doesn't show any easing on position keyframes at all, or at least not in a way that is easily discernible (and I don't know why you have a video showing easing on zoom keyframes when no one complained about that). Yes there is a curve in the timeline graph but it certainly doesn't seem to do anything!

So, just because you are being so needlessly difficult about this, and for some reason saying to multiple forum members that their problems do not really exist, I have made a video which I invite you to watch:



It shows the following:

1. In the Edit page, a clip moves across the screen. No easing has been applied.
2. I duplicate the clip, put it on a track above, and apply easing to both keyframes via the Inspector.
3. Just for good measure, I open up the timeline clip graph and verify the easing there as well.
4. On playback, no easing appears to take place.
5. To prove without a shadow of a doubt that there is no easing, I now apply a Difference composite mode to this clip which will show any difference between the motion of this clip and the one in the track below. With the exception of a glitch for 2 random frames of about 2 pixels in width, there is no difference.

6. Now in the Fusion page, I apply the exact same transformation via a Transform node. Again, at first there is no easing applied (playback isn't so smooth but luckily it doesn't have to be)
7. I copy this transform node, and apply easing in the Spline editor.
8. Playing back each transform node in the 2 monitors clearly shows (even despite the jerky playback) that easing is applied to the node with easing (left monitor), and not to the one that doesn't have it (right monitor)
9. For good measure, I again apply a Difference composite mode using a Merge node, proving that easing on position keyframes works as expected in the Fusion page.

And as if my video wasn't enough, here are a couple of screenshots of this transformation in the Edit page, with the Transform Overlay enabled. This first one shows what it looks like with no easing applied.

TransformOverlay_Linear.png
TransformOverlay_Linear.png (480.29 KiB) Viewed 4038 times


Notice the completely even spacing between each of the points that represent position at different points in time. Now, here is what it looks like with easing selected:

TransformOverlay_Easing.png
TransformOverlay_Easing.png (483.12 KiB) Viewed 4038 times


There's no difference between the two.

I'm not asking you to make another video, though you can if you want, but are you really saying that on your system, if you have the Transform Overlay enabled, and right click on a Position keyframe in the Inspector, and then select Ease In or Ease Out on a keyframe, that there is a change in the display of the overlay? Because if so, I'd like to see screen grabs please.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:43 pm
by Tom Early
The eagle-eyed among you may have noticed that in the video, when I have easing enabled, it looks like the line graph is in fact perfectly straight rather than having an s-curve:

TimelineClip_Curve_Easing.png
TimelineClip_Curve_Easing.png (248.46 KiB) Viewed 4037 times


Indeed, if I select Linear, now it DOES have an S-curve:

TimelineClip_Curve_Linear.png
TimelineClip_Curve_Linear.png (244.58 KiB) Viewed 4037 times


So that's another bug. It doesn't affect anything though, neither selection gave any easing.

[Although what the use is of having a scale of -7680 to +7680 is beyond me, how am I supposed to customise anything with that view??]

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:59 pm
by DanielBoist
Tom, i can confirm that easing on position isn‘t working in the timeline-editor... :?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:18 pm
by kinvermark
Not sure I understand why some are claiming this is not a problem. It clearly is.

Note that we are specifically talking about POSITION keyframing. It does not work. You can select keyframe easing or fiddle with handles to make a curve, but this will not actually apply an ease … for POSITION... other parameters do work.

I would love to be wrong, so for the deniers, please make a video showing a POSITION ease of a graphic or still that is done without using dynamic zoom. I am skeptical.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:36 pm
by kinvermark
OK. Looks like I get to eat my own words. Now have this working.

Still or graphic clip fly-in. Set "end point" keyframe. Then set "start point" keyframe. Go back to "end point" keyframe and right click in inspector to set easing on. At this point an extra white dot will appear in the on screen viewer display between the position dot and the end of the easing handle. Pulling this middle dot to the right will slow down the progress, creating easing.

Don't have time for a video at the moment; hopefully others are able to re-create.

EDIT: Still some real issues here though. Simple fly-in works well, but anything more is problematic. Can only select ease in AND out for middle keyframes and the curves drawn cause the position to jump back and forth. Also, keyframe curves interface is a total carpal tunnel nightmare. Needs work I think.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:58 am
by Tom Early
kinvermark wrote:OK. Looks like I get to eat my own words. Now have this working.

Still or graphic clip fly-in. Set "end point" keyframe. Then set "start point" keyframe. Go back to "end point" keyframe and right click in inspector to set easing on. At this point an extra white dot will appear in the on screen viewer display between the position dot and the end of the easing handle. Pulling this middle dot to the right will slow down the progress, creating easing.

Don't have time for a video at the moment; hopefully others are able to re-create.

EDIT: Still some real issues here though. Simple fly-in works well, but anything more is problematic. Can only select ease in AND out for middle keyframes and the curves drawn cause the position to jump back and forth. Also, keyframe curves interface is a total carpal tunnel nightmare. Needs work I think.


I can confirm that this works, but as you say there's lots of issues still*, and also this is only a workaround, since selecting 'Ease In/Out' should not merely expose the accelerator handle if you happen to have the transform overlay enabled, it should apply the easing for you, with the on-screen handle controls there to allow you to customise things further. The same way it works for easing on other parameters, and for position in the Fusion tab, and any other NLE I can mention.

*example: go to the end keyframe, select Ease In, and with the Transform Overlay active, move the accelerator handle. Doing so will move the image! And yet the position value of the keyframe will not have changed. And then easing on Position Y adds more complications, don't think I even want to get started on that one...

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:51 am
by Jean Claude
When using the transform tool + the KF Editor:

It is possible to add in the KF panel
1- a KF and then
2-right click on the new point in the transform tool and ask for 'Smooth'

KF_editor.+transform.jpg
KF_editor.+transform.jpg (91.33 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

(here on Position Y)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:04 pm
by kinvermark
@Jean Claude

Yes, this has been pointed out before. But you still have to pull on the white dots to apply easing and more importantly, the middle keyframes can only be set to ease in AND out, plus the smoothing curves alter the motion path in very odd and unwanted ways. Just look at you example - who wants a loop-de-loop in the middle?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:21 pm
by Jean Claude
kinvermark wrote:@Jean Claude
.... who wants a loop-de-loop in the middle?


Me for fun ...

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm
by kinvermark
Fair enough :)

But let's pretend you didn't want that... or any other movement. Can it be done?

For example: Fly in -- ease to stop -- pause for three seconds --- ease to start --- fly out.

For me, as soon as you apply the POSITION easing, the curves generated will create some amount of "crazy" motion so you can't have a pause.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:47 pm
by Jean Claude
kinvermark wrote:Fair enough :)

But let's pretend you didn't want that... or any other movement. Can it be done?

For example: Fly in -- ease to stop -- pause for three seconds --- ease to start --- fly out.

For me, as soon as you apply the POSITION easing, the curves generated will create some amount of "crazy" motion so you can't have a pause.


and he does that PP?
You can post a link. (that we speak the same language)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:52 pm
by kinvermark
No idea. I have no interest in PP. I could do this easily (and automated) in Vegas Pro, however. But I want to work in DR.

Point for me is not to compare or complain, it is to get enough information in to the hands of the developers so that they can repair it.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:47 pm
by Jean Claude
kinvermark wrote:No idea. I have no interest in PP. I could do this easily (and automated) in Vegas Pro, however. But I want to work in DR.

Point for me is not to compare or complain, it is to get enough information in to the hands of the developers so that they can repair it.


Just add a Linear input point afer a ease point for ease to stop,
then put a KF 3s after => Linear
then put another FK other than linear to make an ease to start.
kinvermark.jpg
kinvermark.jpg (75.11 KiB) Viewed 3882 times

You tried?

easing on position keyframes workaround

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:20 pm
by Jack Swart
While this won't work in all situations, I use the PUSH transition to achieve smooth fly ins and outs.
It can be made any length, works on supers and fusion comps and has a built-in "ease in and out" setting.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:12 pm
by kinvermark
@jack swart

Thanks for the suggestion. I am aware of this method, but the purpose of my example was simply to give readers and easy to understand scenario for testing position keyframe easing.

I will experiment further when time allows.

Q: Anyone discovered a way to zoom into the keyframe curves editor to make the curves more editable? (i.e. restrict value range so curves aren't so flat.)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:59 pm
by kinvermark
@Jean Claude

OK, I tried your suggestion to put a LINEAR keyframe beside each EASED keyframe and yes, this does work.

BUT... it MUST be only 1 frame away or you can see a jump in the motion that is produced when applying the easing, as explained previously (e.g. the easing curve for the x position will dip below the current position and cause the motion to reverse, thus producing a stutter.)

This is OK as a workaround, but the DR team should still improve this tool. The easing curve shouldn't reverse progress, and there should be a way to zoom in.

Also, given the amount of effort it takes to keyframe motion, there needs to be a way to make save-able presets.

THANKS J-C !

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:19 am
by Peter Cave
Keyframe easing has never been properly addressed by BMD. Most other video software had this sorted out years ago. Please BMD, get it working properly without workarounds or creating Fusion comps.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:31 pm
by Steve Alexander
I have been following this and previous discussions about position easing in Resolve, having never had occasion to use it myself. Last night I gave it a try based on the discussion here and the use of right-clicking and selecting 'ease' modes of key-framing. Does not work correctly in my opinion (adding my voice to those of you asking for BMD to improve this feature).

All I wanted to do was to bring an image in from the left, pause in-frame and then leave. The arrival should decelerate to position and the departure should accelerate (what we typically call ease-in/ease-out). I just couldn't make it work - very fiddly. I could do this in seconds inside Media Composer.

Yes - I could probably drop extra keyframes to accomplish what I wanted but the point is that it should be easy to do.

To BMD support - if you folks are aware of a way to accomplish ease-in/ease out of position so that a deceleration / acceleration behavior is present, please chime in. Thanks.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:40 am
by DanielBoist
just wanted to bump this thread up to get BMs attention to this issue...!!

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:52 pm
by Jim Simon
I'm seeing this not working correctly as well, at least from the Inspector.

Studio 16.1b3 for Windows.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:03 pm
by Jeffrey Hahn
I can confirm that keyframe easing does not work properly in 16.1b3 on OS X. I believe the problem lies in the fact that the range is so large that moving the handle doesn't affect the bezier.

Seems like this is pretty basic stuff to have included in an editing suite. Getting tired of having to find work-arounds for what should be simple tasks in DR Studio. Frustrating.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:01 am
by DanielBoist
as long as no one from BM is confirming that they are working on a fix/improvement, i´ll bump it up again... PLEASEEE Devs, come on!!!

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:58 pm
by Joshua Morin
Bump again!

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:39 pm
by DanielBoist
...still driving me crazy and forces me to do some work outside of DR just because keyframing isn't there where it should be... *BUMP*

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:01 pm
by Jeffrey Hahn
Would it be possible for Blackmagic to let us know if this is actively being fixed?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:26 pm
by deanphillips1991
Wish BM would comment on this

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:44 pm
by DanielBoist
Some news/progress here, BM?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:58 pm
by Jim Simon
Peter mentioned in another thread they are looking into it.

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:37 am
by Jeffrey Hahn
16.1 final still shows the overly large -7680 to 7680 range on the curves editor which makes it impossible to ease keyframes. Can we get an estimate on when this will be fixed?

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:14 am
by kalpox
It seems it's working! You have to enable the transformation overlay, right click the keyframe you created and select "Ease-in". You will see a handle next to the end point (in the overlay). Move it NEXT to that point. It worked like a charm for me. :)

Re: 16.1 beta 3 still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:00 am
by Peter Fizgal
Still no change.

Easing just does not work, not in the overlay, not in the inspector, not in the timeline.

Re: 16.1 FINAL still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:37 am
by SimplSam
Personally - I would not expect to see anything (significant) in 16.1 final that was not in the previous 16.1 betas.

Re: 16.1 FINAL still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:37 pm
by DanielBoist
Still NOT working...!! i cant believe it.
This is such an outstanding and advanced piece of software and such an absolute basic and essential
feature is missing/lacking since ages.
It´s like driving a Ferrari without a steering wheel.

As we very often need to add some motion graphics with ease in/out we are seriously thinking about going (back) to FCPX... :?
It would be a great move if someone from BM could chime in and give us something like a roadmap about when (and if) this will be addressed.

Re: 16.1 FINAL still no easing on position keyframes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:56 pm
by deanphillips1991
As things had been quiet for a few weeks (update wise) I thought this was being worked on, but nope. Gutted! Went back to premiere pro for the time being.