Fusion - managing vertical and proxy resolutions with roto

Hello
I am working on a vertical 5K timeline with 1/16 proxy files and want to do a fusion comp.
I have discovered that even if the timeline is vertical, the fusion page goes back to a horizontal resolution and then inserts the vertical image inside it. I can add transforms and vertical background source to reset the resolution to the timeline but I find it strange that the fusion area does not pick up the timeline data by default.
Then I am working with low res proxies. When I switch between proxy and source res, all my roto, magic mask & vectorial comp work is useless.
There something that I am missing? Other comp apps compensate for proxy rastering issues.

HelloI am working on a vertical 5K timeline with 1/16 proxy files and want to do a fusion comp. I have discovered that even if the timeline is vertical, the fusion page goes back to a horizontal resolution and then inserts the vertical image inside it. I can add transforms and vertical background source to reset the resolution to the timeline but I find it strange that the fusion area does not pick up the timeline data by default.

By default fusion page sources media from either loader or media pool, not timeline. Even if you put a play head on a media clip in edit page and you go to fusion page, it will reference the timeline for a clip, but poll full resolution from source file in the media pool. There are good reasons for this if you are doing vfx, but sometimes you either don't want that or you don't need that extra resolution.

You can either convert your timeline clip to compound clip or fusion clip and than open in fusion page and the file will be conformed to what is in the edit and color page, including resolution, aspect ration and color grading.

You can also do conforming in fusion page, separately by either using background of the vertical dimensions you need and than transform the clip to fit what you need. This is just transformation not real change in resolution. Crop, Scale and Resize nodes will actually change resolution, so depending on how you want to work.

Letterbox node is another way to do it.

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Also make sure that your spline and other tools have appropriate dimensions, because depending on the settings you choose they may default to whatever is set as reference resolution in the fusion settings, by default. To change that in the image tab of for example polygon or b-spline , choose custom and enter your custom vertical resolution.

Regarding proxy workflow. Both resolve and fusion should be resolution agnostic in terms of all self generated effects, like splines or things like that. So if you set it up concretely when you go back to full resolution, all the effects should scale up appropriately. But if you don't know how the order of operations go, things can get messy. For more information, the reference manual covers the way various operations affect each other in terms of resolution and how proxies work, so that would be good to reference if you are not sure.

One way to get speedy playback but only in viewer, is to use timeline proxy resolution, which will not make proxy duplicates or render/cache anything but will only provide a draft version of the preview on the viewer. In used to be, like in proper fusion studio that you could go 1-30x draft of the original resolution, but since Fusion 19 we only have full, half and quarter options. If its not enough for your machine, consider using fusion studio for the fusion work and than finish in resolve. It will give you access to more resources. But if you are working with magic mask and doing hand roto, drop in quality of resolution will obviously affect the precision so find a good compromise.

Then I am working with low res proxies. When I switch between proxy and source res, all my roto, magic mask & vectorial comp work is useless. There something that I am missing? Other comp apps compensate for proxy rastering issues.

There is a particular order of operations when it comes to image processing and most of it is covered in the reference manual, which should be enough to find the suitable workflow. You can do things in flexible ways, but there are few rules to follow, best to read the manual first.

Thank you for your reply. I don't have fusion studio so I cannot comment.
The problem is that fusion inherits the scene size from the last source that is supplied. I have found that the resize node is quite efficient in rerastering the output, so aligning with timeline.
But ... if your media in is from the timeline and you are working in proxy res in the timeline, the fusion comps seem to use the proxy files and therefore the resolution is wrong. It is not very smart to comp from proxies as the full res timeline will throw everything off. Therefore there is a real issue of resolution management. The old school fusion way to manage this is to have Saver nodes at the end of the different fusion operations. This is called Hardcommits in Flame for example.
What would be very useful would be to have the same proxy button as in the other tabs so you can switch between HQ & Proxy and see the impact it has on the comp. There is a similar issue in flame, but I can switch between the different rasters in the actions.

Thank you for your reply. I don't have fusion studio so I cannot comment.

If you have Resolve Studio, the same license should also work for fusion studio.

The problem is that fusion inherits the scene size from the last source that is supplied.

That should not be the case. Technically there is no scene size in fusion, it is resolution independent per se, the only thing that exists is the main reference resolution which can be set up in fusion page preferences.

There is no formal resolution to a comp in Fusion. Even though opening Fusion > Fusion Settings in the Fusion page or Preferences in Fusion Studio allows you to set the Width and Height in the Frame Format panel, those settings only affect the size of Fusion-generated images, like the Background tool, Fast Noise, and Text+ tool. The actual resolution of your composition is initially determined by the source resolution of the input image. However, it can be modified at any time using a variety of operations and nodes.

For example, if you read in a full HD 1920 x 1080 resolution image, your comp starts at full HD 1920 x 1080 resolution. This is regardless of the Timeline resolution when you are using the Fusion page in DaVinci Resolve. The initial resolution of the Fusion comp is the size of the source media. Depending on how you combine images and the nodes you use, the output comp resolution can be maintained or modified.

For ordinary, single clips coming in from the Edit or Cut page, the MediaIn node in the Fusion page represents the source media, as modified by the Clip Attributes window. Although you select the clip from the Edit or Cut page Timeline, in the Fusion page, the clip is accessed from the Media Pool.

This means you have access to the entire source clip in the Fusion page, but the render range is set to match the duration of the clip in the Timeline. You also use the full resolution of the source clip, even if the Timeline is set to a lower resolution. However, none of the Edit or Cut page Inspector adjustments carry over into the Fusion page, with the exception of the Lens Correction adjustment. When you make Zoom, Position, Crop, or Stabilization changes in the Edit or Cut page, they are not visible in the Fusion page. The same applies to any Resolve FX or OpenFX third-party plugins.

If you add these items to a clip in the Edit or Cut page, and then you open the Fusion page, you won’t see them taking effect. All Edit and Cut page timeline effects and Inspector adjustments, with the exception of the Lens Correction adjustment, are computed after the Fusion page but before the Color page. If you open the Color page, you’ll see the Edit and Cut page transforms and plugins applied to that clip, effectively as an operation before the grading adjustments and effects you apply in the Color page Node Editor.

If you use compound clip or fusion clip, you can conform the files to be loaded from timeline with all the same settings, and there is composite preview mode found in media in nodes, called background. Which is just for easier motion graphics comping.

I have found that the resize node is quite efficient in rerastering the output, so aligning with timeline.
But ... if your media in is from the timeline and you are working in proxy res in the timeline, the fusion comps seem to use the proxy files and therefore the resolution is wrong. It is not very smart to comp from proxies as the full res timeline will throw everything off. Therefore there is a real issue of resolution management.

This should not be the issue. For reasons I've explained in previous section, unless you use proxies as source for fusion page. The issue is somewhere in your settings for resolution that you use to work with.

There are two ways to resize in fusion. One is non destructive, its just transforming something at lower dimensions, such as transform node. And few nodes will actually change the resolution and so when you go back to large one you will lose quality. Sometimes its what you want and sometimes its not what you want, it depends.

If your comp uses a single image, you can change the pixel output resolution in several ways. Three common tools that change the pixel resolution of a clip are the Resize, Scale, and Crop nodes. A fourth node, Letterbox, is less commonly used but also changes the pixel resolution of a clip. It you are not clanging resolution just aspect ratio its an easy one to use, however you can also do it less destructively if you use background input of the aspect ratio and merge your foreground clip on top. Than background input will be the canvas size and foreground will conform to it, but not crop out parts of the image outside of the bounds.

Managing resolution in fusion is pretty easy if you know the order of operations and correct nodes for operations you need. Even if you roto on a vertical aspect ratio and with proxy files, set up correctly, you should be able to scale up your roto splines, being they are vector to match the full resolution clip and now lose quality other than user placed points. If you work with low resolution proxy and you use it to roto manually, sometimes you may not be as precise, so that is only limitation.

The old school fusion way to manage this is to have Saver nodes at the end of the different fusion operations. This is called Hardcommits in Flame for example.
What would be very useful would be to have the same proxy button as in the other tabs so you can switch between HQ & Proxy and see the impact it has on the comp. There is a similar issue in flame, but I can switch between the different rasters in the actions.

Timeline proxy resolution is a way to use draft mode in the viewer which is fast to work with and its good for playback performance, but not accuracy of roto work. However you can use custom resolution in all tools that you would use for roto, such as polygon or B-spline. You can set it to whatever you need and scale it back up to whatever you need and since the splines are vectors, they will be rendered with no quality loss other than your manual placement of points. as long as you set them at appropriate dimensions or use percentage.



FUSION 8 - PolylineAction - CustomGrids, Resolution Independent Masking

I still wanna know if it possible like Chlowden did which use poxy lowres files first then replace highres files to render it out in Fusion ? I guess the answer is no after reading so long reply, right ?

In short, if you use fusion as a compositing extension in your timeline ... Then not really (ou need to be very vigilant as to the resolution your see in the fusion tab and manage resizing and save as in the fusion page). If you use fusion as a separate app, using fusion studio or maybe by using dedicated fusion comps in resolve, then it seems to be possible.
I thought that fusion was better integrated into the timeline but I have found that one needs to be smart in managing comps; particularly resolution issues from the timeline.

Hey

Yep, I can understand your "... so long reply" or "in short...", I hardly read his novels too...

So, try installing/using Fusion Studio which works with the same license as Resolve Studio > in its preferences, set your needed weight/height in defaults and check if a new comp respect this > in Resolve, use the VFX Connect way to roundtrip to Fusion Studio
(and please report because actually it's a guess, I didn't try it so far and I'm interested )

Hey

Yep, I can understand your "... so long reply" or "in short...", I hardly read his novels too...

So, try installing/using Fusion Studio which works with the same license as Resolve Studio > in its preferences, set your needed weight/height in defaults and check if a new comp respect this > in Resolve, use the VFX Connect way to roundtrip to Fusion Studio
(and please report because actually it's a guess, I didn't try it so far and I'm interested )

Hi Sam！Thanks for reply. I like VFX connect Clip , it works fine to me. Actually it works great in my mac m2 air with 16GB ram even it is not a professional machine for vfx artists.