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Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

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footofwrath

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Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 3:29 pm

Hi friends,
Is there somewhere to find a tutorial for spherical stabilizer esp. wrt horizon levelling and performance?
I have an 8K, 2h clip for which I have created 1080p proxy files (on local NVMe SSD) and have verified the proxy is in use in the FUsion window. Have ensured ' HIgh Quality' & ' Motion Blur' are de-selected in the fusion timeline and ' Use proxy media if available' is selected in the Playback menu.

I choose Strength=1.0 and hit ' run from start' icon. Fusion is processing at 3-4 frames/sec meaning that the entire run will take over 9 hours to analyze. Should this be the expected turnaround for 2 hours of 1080p video? Or am I doing something wrong?

My machine is capable: Ryzen 5950x, 64Gb 3600Mhz RAM, RTX 3080. So I assume that's not the problem. User error very very likely to be the culprit.

Second question is horizon levelling. Can I get the Sph.Stab. to do this too? Or do I need another tool? Panomap will let me do it manually, frame-by-frame of course, but this clip has 140,000 frames..........
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 6:15 pm

Offset rotation will allow you to level the horizon. That's just additional rotation to be applied after the stabilization.

As far as performance, you should be seeing 10x that.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 6:23 pm

What's your playback speed if you simply view the uncached proxy and play, without any other tools involved?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 6:30 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:Offset rotation will allow you to level the horizon. That's just additional rotation to be applied after the stabilization.

As far as performance, you should be seeing 10x that.


I can level it before the start, yes. But during the video it moves. THe stabilzer smooths the movement but it doesn't level the horizon.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 6:31 pm

Bryan Ray wrote:What's your playback speed if you simply view the uncached proxy and play, without any other tools involved?


Plays great. I have the speed set at 600% and it plays like butter. If by uncached you mean simply the result of the 'generate proxy media' task.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 6:41 pm

It sounds like you're in Resolve, which might have interactions I'm not familiar with. I recommend attempting to perform your stabilization in the standalone version of Fusion Studio, just to eliminate any additional variables and overhead that Resolve brings along with it. Best guess at the moment is that Fusion is running the process in CPU mode, or perhaps OpenCL, instead of CUDA. You should be able to force the API in the Preferences and verify that your graphics card has been detected properly and is in use.

I don't have any spherical footage on hand to benchmark on my own machine, so I can't honestly say for certain how fast it should be. I'll take Chad's word for it that 4 fps is slow for that tool.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 11:20 pm

Yes, in Resolve. I guess I assumed the 'Fusion' forum was as much for Fusion section as for the stand-alone. Actually I didn't know there was a stand-alone product at all heheh.

In the Preferences menu of Resolve I have [now] selected CUDA instead of the Auto option. My 9h task is currently down to 1h30 remaining so I figure I'll let it finish before restarting Resolve to check. But I do note that if I select 'CUDA' in Windows Task Manager it shows 0% usage. CPU usage is at ~70% on average. SO that's possibly indeed a good indication of the issue.

About the Horizon Levelling question: is that something I should ask on the Resolve forum or is there something in Fusion (either inside Resolve or stand-alone) that would help me here also?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSat Sep 11, 2021 11:46 pm

This is certainly the place to ask about Fusion page questions. I just want to be clear that when I answer a question, my experience comes entirely from the standalone version. And when troubleshooting something, it's best to strip away as many layers of complexity as you can. Resolve itself is a huge bundle of complexity in comparison to Fusion by itself! :D

I don't have much experience with spherical footage beyond stitching HDRi lighting reference, so I also can't help much with the horizon question. However, I would guess that once the dome is stabilized, you'd need only one non-animated transform with Panomap afterward to straighten it.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 11:13 am

Bryan Ray wrote:
I don't have much experience with spherical footage beyond stitching HDRi lighting reference, so I also can't help much with the horizon question. However, I would guess that once the dome is stabilized, you'd need only one non-animated transform with Panomap afterward to straighten it.


Would be a reasonable assumption. Problem is that the camera hasn't maintained its orientation throughout the filming. So there are numerous locations where I need to re-correct the levelling. This footage is from a Qoocam 8K.

I'm going to install new Nvidia Studio drivers, see if that makes a difference but if anyone has insights on why Resolve/Fusion doesn't seem to be calling on CUDA at all, I'd be highly interested.. I do notice that in Insta360 Studio (where I export ProRes) there is a -small- blip up to 2% CUDA usage while exporting a track.
Black Magic Raw Speedtest though gives me flying colours on all resolutions.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 2:37 pm

You absolutely want CUDA selected in Resolve's GPU preferences, which will make a big difference to performance as you saw.

Regarding Blackmagic Raw Speedtest, this just tests the speed of debayering and decoding BRAW footage. It's an OK benchmark to get an idea of relative GPU performance, but it doesn't directly reflect what's happening in the Fusion page.

Some questions:

What is the default resolution shown in Project Settings -> Timeline Resolution, and what is the resolution of the timeline you're currently working on? (assuming you are working on a Timeline.)

How did you make this Fusion composition? Did you go to the Fusion page directly on a clip on a Timeline? Or did you make a Fusion Clip from the clip first? Or did you make a Fusion Composition and then drag the clip in from the Media Pool?

Is your intention to get a final render at 1080p? Or are the 1080p proxies just for improving playback performance, and then you'll render at 8K?

Some info:

If you are working on a Timeline and did not make a Fusion Clip then, despite having 1080p proxies, Fusion is still processing your clips at 7680x4320 resolution. In fact, with 1080p proxies Resolve will actually be scaling the 1080p proxies back up to 8K before passing it to Fusion.

You can check in Fusion: in the top right of the Fusion viewer when viewing MediaIn or one of your other nodes, what resolution does it display? 1920x1080, or 7680x4320?

Here's an example where I have a 12K clip with 1/16 size proxy, which is on a UHD Timeline and then I've gone to the Fusion page directly on that clip:

Media Pool describing the clip:
Image
Timeline showing the clip with its Fusion composition:
Image
Fusion viewer showing what resolution it sees for this clip:
Image

Processing effects in Fusion at 8K resolution could well be very slow, at least in my own experience at UHD.

Some ideas:
Assuming your timeline resolution is less than 8K, and that your intention is not to render the final output at 8K, a simple solution for this could be to create a Fusion Clip of your source clip(s). Fusion will then see them at timeline resolution, not at source resolution.

So with 1080p proxies in a Fusion Clip on a 1080p timeline, everything will be 1080p. 1080p proxies in a Fusion Clip on a UHD timeline will read the source media at 1080p, then scale it to UHD which Fusion will process at. And so on.

However, if you're already using a Fusion Clip (or a Compound Clip would be the same in this case), and Fusion is indeed showing 1920x1080 in the viewer - and/or, if your intention is to do the final render at 8K, meaning you're on an 8K timeline and don't intend to use proxies for the final render - there might not be much more you can do.

Final question related to performance:

Is performance consistently at 5fps throughout the whole render/playback? Or does it start higher and progressively slow down over time?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 4:42 pm

TheBloke wrote:You absolutely want CUDA selected in Resolve's GPU preferences, which will make a big difference to performance as you saw.


It's selected, just now it's selected explicitly instead of being set on Auto (with CUDA still selected).

TheBloke wrote:Regarding Blackmagic Raw Speedtest, this just tests the speed of debayering and decoding BRAW footage. It's an OK benchmark to get an idea of relative GPU performance, but it doesn't directly reflect what's happening in the Fusion page.


Can we conclude though that it does employ CUDA in these tests though, and that therefore good scores are confirmation that CUDA is at least being used in this instance?

TheBloke wrote:
What is the default resolution shown in Project Settings -> Timeline Resolution, and what is the resolution of the timeline you're currently working on? (assuming you are working on a Timeline.)



1920x960. Following a guide from one tutorial I set proxies at 1/4 and then the Timeline Res. to the resolution of the Proxy. Once I come to render I will change the TL res to the full 8K.

TheBloke wrote:How did you make this Fusion composition? Did you go to the Fusion page directly on a clip on a Timeline? Or did you make a Fusion Clip from the clip first? Or did you make a Fusion Composition and then drag the clip in from the Media Pool?


Ummm.. I didn't do anything Fusion-specific.. I added the Media to the project, then I created Proxy media, then I added the clip to the TL, then I clicked on Fusion page.

TheBloke wrote:Is your intention to get a final render at 1080p? Or are the 1080p proxies just for improving playback performance, and then you'll render at 8K?


8K. Need every pixel I can get :))


TheBloke wrote:If you are working on a Timeline and did not make a Fusion Clip then, despite having 1080p proxies, Fusion is still processing your clips at 7680x4320 resolution. In fact, with 1080p proxies Resolve will actually be scaling the 1080p proxies back up to 8K before passing it to Fusion.

You can check in Fusion: in the top right of the Fusion viewer when viewing MediaIn or one of your other nodes, what resolution does it display? 1920x1080, or 7680x4320?


Well... If I click 'Metadata' panel, it shows me the original clip and the full 8K resolution (or in this case the 5.7K as I tried a new clip :) ). If I mouse over the View2 I can see the pointer tracking reaching X: 5760 at the bottom so I guess that would strongly indicate the full res...

TheBloke wrote:Here's an example where I have a 12K clip with 1/16 size proxy, which is on a UHD Timeline and then I've gone to the Fusion page directly on that clip:


I do have the Media Pool value on fusion page listing the proxy res, and Timeline is also showing the proxy file's resolution (1440x720 in this case). I also have the little starries on the corner of the clip in TL on Edit page.
What I don't see is the resolution displayed above the clip on Fusion viewer the way you have it.

TheBloke wrote:Assuming your timeline resolution is less than 8K, and that your intention is not to render the final output at 8K, a simple solution for this could be to create a Fusion Clip of your source clip(s). Fusion will then see them at timeline resolution, not at source resolution.

So with 1080p proxies in a Fusion Clip on a 1080p timeline, everything will be 1080p. 1080p proxies in a Fusion Clip on a UHD timeline will read the source media at 1080p, then scale it to UHD which Fusion will process at. And so on.


Right but really need to render at 8K...


TheBloke wrote:However, if you're already using a Fusion Clip (or a Compound Clip would be the same in this case), and Fusion is indeed showing 1920x1080 in the viewer - and/or, if your intention is to do the final render at 8K, meaning you're on an 8K timeline and don't intend to use proxies for the final render - there might not be much more you can do.


OK so I'm guessing I'm not seeing the correct proxy res on the Fusion page. How do I fix that? :)

Final question related to performance:

TheBloke wrote:Is performance consistently at 5fps throughout the whole render/playback? Or does it start higher and progressively slow down over time?
[/quote][/quote]

It was consistent throughout the render.. Final end time for that 9hrs came out within a few mins (~10) of the original estimation. CPU was sitting at ~70% the whole time (on a 5950x) and CUDA was at 0. :)

One final complication: I ran this new test clip, 3mins @5.7K, it took 10mins which is ~10frames per second, but it hasn't [noticeably] fixed any of the required stabilisation issues. This video has a lot of shake (same as the 8K one) so is there a point where the Sph.Stab. can't correlate the image from one frame to the next? Or should I hpyothetically be able to keep adding more and more Sph.Stab. nodes in Fusion and get an eventual usuable output? heh

And thanks man, really appreciate your assistance :)
Last edited by footofwrath on Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 5:23 pm

footofwrath wrote:Can we conclude though that it does employ CUDA in these tests though, and that therefore good scores are confirmation that CUDA is at least being used in this instance?
I believe CUDA has always been in operation in Resolve - you had it on Auto before, which should select CUDA, and now you have it specifically on CUDA.

That doesn't mean that the Spherical Stabilizer specifically is making good use of CUDA.

From my own test just now, it seems to use far more CPU than GPU. In fact it barely used any GPU at all, and the amount it did use could well be explained by Resolve decoding and debayering the source clip.

Spherical Stabilizer does have a GPU Acceleration on/off switch suggesting it should be GPU accelerated. But apparently in practice it's not doing much with it.
footofwrath wrote:OK so I'm guessing I'm not seeing the correct proxy res on the Fusion page. How do I fix that?
By making a Fusion Clip or Compound Clip and putting the Fusion comp on that.

However things are complicated by the fact that you want to render at 8k.

Things are also more complicated in this instance because the Spherical Stabilizer is a two-step process. First you have to track - and I assume that's what you're saying takes 9 hours? - and then you have to render.

I did my own test just now, with 8K BRAW media on 8K timeline. With Spherical Stabilizer at default settings, tracking proceeded at an average of 3.0 FPS, and then playback (once already tracked) was 3 - 6 FPS.

Given you want to render at 8K, it seems certain to me that you will always have a lengthy process at the end, of 5 - 9 hours.

However we may be able to improve the time it takes to track, by getting Fusion to stabilize based on the 1080p proxy image, and then applying that to the 8K image for rendering. In order for this to work, it's vital that the proxy is the same aspect ratio as the source clip. I think this is already the case - you mentioned your proxies are 1920x960 so presumably the source media is 7680x3840?

So these are the theoretical, untested steps.

Method one - creating 1/4 proxies and forcing Fusion to use them for tracking, but not for rendering:
  1. Generate the 1/4 res proxies for your media, and make sure Playback -> Use Proxy Media is selected
  2. Create a 1080p timeline with the 8K media on it
  3. Select the clip(s), right-click, New Compound Clip
  4. Select the new Compound Clip, right-click, Open In Fusion page
  5. Look at the very top right of the Fusion viewer and confirm you see "1920x1080xfloat32"
  6. Add your Spherical Stabilizer, configure it, track it forward from frame 0.
  7. It'll take.. no idea how long. But less time than at 8K, hopefully a lot less
  8. When it's done and you are happy with the result, copy the Spherical Stabilizer node. Now paste it into a text file in Notepad or equivalent text editor. That's a backup so we can copy it back in a minute.
  9. Back in Resolve, go back to Edit.
  10. Right-click on the Compound Clip and Decompose In Place.
  11. Change the Timeline Settings to 8K.
  12. Right-click on the source media clip that's now visible again, and Open In Fusion Page
  13. You're now at a blank composition again. Select the MediaIn1 node.
  14. Go back to your text file, copy all the text (Control-A, Control-C), then back to the Fusion page, and with the MediaIn1 node still selected, paste.
  15. You'll get back your Spherical Stabilizer node again, which should be automatically connected between MediaIn1 and MediaOut.
  16. Check the output on a number of frames and confirm they look fine.
  17. Save the project, go to Deliver, make sure the Deliver option to use proxies is disabled, render at 8K.
  18. This will take.. no idea how long. Based on my own quick test, likely less time than it took you to track the stabilizer at 8K in past tests, so maybe 4.5 hours - 8 hours.

Method 2, passing Fusion the original source media but resizing it prior to stabilize tracking:
  1. Create a 1080p timeline with 8K media on it. Don't bother with proxies.
  2. Go to the Fusion page
  3. After MediaIn1, first add a Resize node, set to 1920x960.
  4. Then add the SphericalStabilizer after that; configure it; track it forward from frame 0. Expect it to perform a little worse than method 1 (at a guess)
  5. When done, delete the Resize node, then check the output still looks right.
  6. Back to Edit, change Timeline Settings to 8K.
  7. Deliver: Set it to 8K, make sure the Deliver option to use Proxy Media is disabled, Deliver. This will take 6 - 9 hours I'd guess.

Method 2 is fewer steps but the performance might well be a bit worse than step 1 because Fusion is still seeing the 8K clip, which we're then resizing down to 1/4 before generating the track.

A variant could also be tried in standalone Fusion Studio (if you're a Resolve Studio owner). No timeline, just a Loader node. That Loader could either load the original source footage, and be followed by a Resize node as per method 2. Or it could load the 1920x960 proxy, in which case no Resize would be needed. If your footage is in a RAW format you'd first have to save out a version in ProRes or DNxHR for Fusion Studio to load (unless proxies were used which would already be in such a format). You would then do the tracking in Fusion Studio, and at the end could either copy the stabilizer node to Resolve (by copying and pasting the node as described in method 1). Or, if you loaded your original source footage in Fusion Studio, you could also do the rendering in Fusion Studio via a Saver.

I do not expect Fusion Studio to perform significantly quicker, if at all, than Resolve. But there might be a few % difference. And it might be less likely to crash or freeze during those lengthy track and render processes.

All of these theoretical methods assume that the Spherical Stabilizer track on 1/4 resolution files will be directly applicable to the full resolution. I don't know if this is the case. It must be tested carefully. In theory it should work, because Fusion comps are resolution independent and all the keyframes stored by the Spherical Stabilizer are in a 0..1 scale. So 0.25 on an 8K image is the same place as 0.25 on a 1080p image.

However whether the stabilising job is as good when generated on 1/4 the number of pixels, I do not know. Whether there are side effects or artefacts, I do not know.

Re your questions on the Stabilizer - can't help there, never used it. Hopefully the others can.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 10:00 pm

TheBloke wrote:
That doesn't mean that the Spherical Stabilizer specifically is making good use of CUDA.


OK. but that should be a confirmable behaviour, and given general feedback on the performance of the tool, one would have to conclude that it is [CUDA being used], at least the intention anyway. 16 Ryzen cores are great but I'm sure they can't compete with 8,000 CUDAs.

TheBloke wrote:From my own test just now, it seems to use far more CPU than GPU. In fact it barely used any GPU at all, and the amount it did use could well be explained by Resolve decoding and debayering the source clip.

Spherical Stabilizer does have a GPU Acceleration on/off switch suggesting it should be GPU accelerated. But apparently in practice it's not doing much with it.


OK, but I have a 5950x, outside of professional workstation CPUs [i.e. Threadripper] this is the ballin'est CPU around so if it even hints at non-competitiveness compared to other users it would suggest something is off somewhere...


TheBloke wrote: By making a Fusion Clip or Compound Clip and putting the Fusion comp on that.


Yes did that. HOwever it still analyses in Sph.Stab. at 5-6 fps. And CPU usage only, no CUDA.

TheBloke wrote:However things are complicated by the fact that you want to render at 8k.

Things are also more complicated in this instance because the Spherical Stabilizer is a two-step process. First you have to track - and I assume that's what you're saying takes 9 hours? - and then you have to render.


I'm not even trying to render yet. I'm just running the Sph. Stab.

TheBloke wrote:I did my own test just now, with 8K BRAW media on 8K timeline. With Spherical Stabilizer at default settings, tracking proceeded at an average of 3.0 FPS, and then playback (once already tracked) was 3 - 6 FPS.


Yes, if I was running the full 8K vframe through through the stabilizer, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me too much. But according to Hugh @CreatorUp the proxy file should be just as capable and provide exponentially better performance.

TheBloke wrote:Given you want to render at 8K, it seems certain to me that you will always have a lengthy process at the end, of 5 - 9 hours.


Render, yes. Isn't that the point of proxy though? I don't mind a long render at the end, as long as I'm not doing multiple 9h passes in the middle just to get effects applied.

TheBloke wrote:However we may be able to improve the time it takes to track, by getting Fusion to stabilize based on the 1080p proxy image, and then applying that to the 8K image for rendering. In order for this to work, it's vital that the proxy is the same aspect ratio as the source clip. I think this is already the case - you mentioned your proxies are 1920x960 so presumably the source media is 7680x3840?


Yep.

TheBloke wrote:So these are the theoretical, untested steps.

Method one - creating 1/4 proxies and forcing Fusion to use them for tracking, but not for rendering:


OK, gonna try this,. Though, right now, I got the compound clip, started the Fusion analysis, ran @20fps initially but is steadily decreasing, now down to ~4.8fps. And still 0% CUDA usage on the perf chart.
[ed]
5 mins later, down to 2fps.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 11:32 pm

footofwrath wrote:OK, gonna try this,. Though, right now, I got the compound clip, started the Fusion analysis, ran @20fps initially but is steadily decreasing, now down to ~4.8fps. And still 0% CUDA usage on the perf chart.
[ed]
5 mins later, down to 2fps.


Result is 1h11mins to parse the 2m50 clip. So that seems a no-go :p
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 7:28 am

If performance is degrading that quickly you are likely hitting the long-standing VRAM caching bug. That's why I asked about degrading performance in my first post, but I guess on 8K media you weren't seeing it. You are now.

It's described in detail here: https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckl ... =19&t=4169

On your Spherical Stabilizer node, go to the Settings tab and under Frame Render Script, paste in this:
Code: Select all
if time % 20 == 0 then fu:PurgeCache() end
This will clear the RAM and VRAM cache every 20 frames. This may well get much more consistent performance.

For me, running the Stabilizer on a 1080p Fusion Clip (8K BRAW source media), no proxies, I got 12 FPS at the start dropping to 9 FPS fairly quickly. Adding the Frame Render Script described above, I got 11.45 FPS consistently throughout the process.

I am using an AMD 6900XT 16GB GPU using the macOS Metal API. I've heard reports that the performance degradation can be even worse with NVidia and CUDA.

Next: In my testing I am seeing a significant performance improvement from adding a ChangeDepth node after MediaIn1 and before the SphericalStabilizer. Set the ChangeDepth to int8 or int16. Taking my no-proxy test described above and trying in int8, increases performance from 12FPS (default float32) to 22 FPS (int8). Without the fu:PurgeCache() script, performance then degraded down to 10 FPS. With the fu:PurgeCache script, performance actually increased slightly over time, finishing a 1745 frame test at 23.05 FPS average.

Then when I tested the same process with proxies (clips all in a Fusion Clip + 1080p proxies + ChangeDepth + Stabilizer fu:purgeCache() script) I got an average of 31.60 FPS during Track in Resolve, and performance was consistent.

Finally, you could try going to Fusion Studio as was recommended before. When I try 1080p source media in Fusion Studio (int8), I see as high as 47.5 FPS when tracking the Stabilizer.

I'm not quite sure why Studio sees such an increase in performance on this node at 1080p. I saw no difference in perf when I briefly tested at 8K yesterday. Anyway, it does for me on a 1080p test, so that's worth testing too.

If you try Fusion Studio, make sure to go into its preferences and set the GPU API to CUDA.

When I tested in Fusion Studio I did not see the performance degradation bug and so did not need the fu:PurgeCache() script (tested over 1745 frames). However in other comps I very often do need it in Studio, in fact lately I need it much more often than I do in Resolve. This does depend a lot on what specific tools are used though, and the issue seems to vary from platform to platform so YMMV.

If you do try Studio I would start with a plain SphericalStabilizer node, test performance with that, and if you see the average FPS degrading, add the fu:PurgeCache() script and test again.

So:
- If/when you see performance degradation, add the fu:PurgeCache() script to workaround that problem.

- Set depth to int8 prior to tracking. This seems to make a significant difference to the Stabilizer. Resolve always defaults to float32 but I wouldn't think you'd need more than int8 for stabilise tracking. Of course, check the results carefully and compare different bit depths to confirm the result is accurate.

- You may get higher performance in Fusion Studio when reading the 1080p proxies at int8. As mentioned in an earlier post, the tracked Spherical Stabilizer node could then be copied back to Resolve and used there, or you could do the final render in Fusion Studio assuming it can read your source media; it can't read RAW footage, so you'd have to render out a ProRes or DNxHR version first.

In all scenarios, when doing the final render make sure your footage is at its source bit depth and that you're using the full 8K clips and rendering at 8K on an 8K timeline (if using Resolve).
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 11:03 am

I mean that's asking a lot, I literally just started using Resolve this week.. once I run the Stabiliizer on Fusion Studio do I just render the 1080p clip in-place and them re-link the proxy file or do I copy out the results and paste them into the project in Resolve in some way?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 11:14 am

I described copying and pasting nodes in an earlier post, the one with "method one" and "method 2".

It's up to you if you want to try Fusion Studio. It performs better for me, but if you follow the detailed instructions I gave for Resolve, that should already perform a lot better than you have been seeing.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 11:15 am

If you've started using Resolve only this week, maybe you're better off learning the basics a bit more, before embarking on a project as ambitious as you're describing. I'm not saying this as a negative thing, but as a positive suggestion. You're saying it's a 2 hour(!) clip, right? I've been using Fusion for 20+ years and Resolve for about 3 and the longest I've ever worked with is maybe 3 minutes. You're trying to do the equivalent of a full feature film at the highest possible resolution with only a week of training. That might be a little ambitious to begin with.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 8:20 pm

footofwrath wrote:\
I can level it before the start, yes. But during the video it moves. THe stabilzer smooths the movement but it doesn't level the horizon.


You have the SmoothingBlend set to 0?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 13, 2021 8:27 pm

Are you using the correct aspect ratio for the inputs? I think internally it resizes if you give it the wrong size input, which can affect performance a lot. So 1920x1080 is not a valid resolution, so resizing that would impact performance significantly. The format also matters; latlong is, for whatever reason, faster.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostTue Sep 14, 2021 9:01 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:If you've started using Resolve only this week, maybe you're better off learning the basics a bit more, before embarking on a project as ambitious as you're describing. I'm not saying this as a negative thing, but as a positive suggestion. You're saying it's a 2 hour(!) clip, right? I've been using Fusion for 20+ years and Resolve for about 3 and the longest I've ever worked with is maybe 3 minutes. You're trying to do the equivalent of a full feature film at the highest possible resolution with only a week of training. That might be a little ambitious to begin with.



It's a continuous capture.. it's all one piece. I'll chop it where I need to & ii'll be sped up to about 10-12 mins in the final cut. Right now the only thing I really need to do is stabilise it (and level the horizon).

If you want, we can reference a different clip, 3min timelapse instead, it's 5.7K, and needs the same treatment. Same diff..
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostTue Sep 14, 2021 9:02 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:
footofwrath wrote:\
I can level it before the start, yes. But during the video it moves. THe stabilzer smooths the movement but it doesn't level the horizon.


You have the SmoothingBlend set to 0?


I have both Strength and Smoothing maxed to 1. Should I not?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostTue Sep 14, 2021 9:06 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:Are you using the correct aspect ratio for the inputs? I think internally it resizes if you give it the wrong size input, which can affect performance a lot. So 1920x1080 is not a valid resolution, so resizing that would impact performance significantly. The format also matters; latlong is, for whatever reason, faster.


Well technically it's 1920x960, because it's a 360 8K divided into 4, but the timeline has this same res and the clip shows this in the Fusion window (once I have the 'compound clip' created). But all 360 video has this ratio of course, so if it was a generic issue with the aspect ratio, it would be a commonly-known difficulty.

Are you saying I need to configure *Fusion* as well to match the specific resolution, or just that the clip should match neatly onto the configured Timeline Res.?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostTue Sep 14, 2021 9:12 pm

TheBloke wrote:I described copying and pasting nodes in an earlier post, the one with "method one" and "method 2".

It's up to you if you want to try Fusion Studio. It performs better for me, but if you follow the detailed instructions I gave for Resolve, that should already perform a lot better than you have been seeing.



Will take a stab at it, cheers.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 12:16 am

footofwrath wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:
footofwrath wrote:\
I can level it before the start, yes. But during the video it moves. THe stabilzer smooths the movement but it doesn't level the horizon.


You have the SmoothingBlend set to 0?


I have both Strength and Smoothing maxed to 1. Should I not?


No. Smoothing should be 0, for reasons that would make sense if the UI wasn't messed up.



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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 12:29 am

TheBloke wrote:
Next: In my testing I am seeing a significant performance improvement from adding a ChangeDepth node after MediaIn1 and before the SphericalStabilizer. Set the ChangeDepth to int8 or int16. Taking my no-proxy test described above and trying in int8, increases performance from 12FPS (default float32) to 22 FPS (int8). Without the fu:PurgeCache() script, performance then degraded down to 10 FPS. With the fu:PurgeCache script, performance actually increased slightly over time, finishing a 1745 frame test at 23.05 FPS average.


Have done this. 1440x720 proxy file of the 3min timelapse taken at 5.7K.
MediaIn1 ->
ChangeDepth -> int8, in Settings set 'Use GPU' to Enable.
Sph.Stab -> added script as above [if time % 20 == 0 then fu:PurgeCache() end], set 'Use GPU' to Enable. Strength set to 1.0, Smoothing set to 1.0
-> MediaOut1.

Run starts at 22fps. Within 20s it's down to 10fps and now, after 730 frames, it's sitting at 6fps.

I do note that CUDA is still doing -nothing- at all. At least according to Windows Task Manager. In HWinfo I see ~25% 'GPU Core Load' and 50-70% memory load.

After 1800 frames processed, the rate is 5.18fps.
When I stop the run, the CPU Core does drop immediately to 0.

Will try stand-alone Fusion next.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 am

1440x720 should get you closer to 60-80fps. Definitely try Fusion Studio.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 8:37 pm

TheBloke wrote:
Finally, you could try going to Fusion Studio as was recommended before. When I try 1080p source media in Fusion Studio (int8), I see as high as 47.5 FPS when tracking the Stabilizer.

I'm not quite sure why Studio sees such an increase in performance on this node at 1080p. I saw no difference in perf when I briefly tested at 8K yesterday. Anyway, it does for me on a 1080p test, so that's worth testing too.

If you try Fusion Studio, make sure to go into its preferences and set the GPU API to CUDA.



So I went to Fusion Studio. I set Preferences -> GPU -> GPU tools -> Enable.
Am not able to change any API selection; it's stuck on Auto, and greyed out.
So then I dragged my 2880s clip no proxy, into the fusion area and attached a Sph.Stab. node. Tried to find the MediaIn & MediaOut but those don't seem to be here (under I/O where they were in Resolve).
It's only picked the first 1000 frames, for reasons you'll probably know but I don't.. but anyway it runs.. at 16.25 fps most of the way along. In fact that's the end average.
In HWinfo, GPU Core load was hitting 30%, and the CUDA level in Windows TaskManager was non-Zero. Not much more than 0, but non-zero - sitting steady at 7%. And GPU Bus Load (HWinfo) shows activity - 14%.

If I now add the PurgeCache script it drops to 10.5fps. Haven't added Change Depth node.

Interesting, I thought maybe both tools aren't liking being run only as User (not Administrator), and hence why I can't choose CUDA under API or access CUDA operations. BUt running Fusion under Administrator account I still can't set the API to CUDA and I -also- can't drag the file into the Fusion node area. :/

Soooo... any clues? heh
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 8:46 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:1440x720 should get you closer to 60-80fps. Definitely try Fusion Studio.


Yah. 69fps for the 1920x960 (1/4 of 8K).

So what the deuce is wrong with my Resolve then? :)
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 9:17 pm

footofwrath wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:1440x720 should get you closer to 60-80fps. Definitely try Fusion Studio.


Yah. 69fps for the 1920x960 (1/4 of 8K).

So what the deuce is wrong with my Resolve then? :)


Spoke too soon........


..... once I loaded the full 140,000 frames of the8K clip.. and let it run.. I'm getting 83fps on the stabilizer. And ever-so-gradually increasing over time too. SO that's good :D now up to 83.5fps on the 1920x960 clip. Now just to figure out how to transfer the data back to Resolve..... which I think you said you showed me above. :))
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 10:00 pm

Once you have finished tracking, you can copy/paste the tool between Fusion Studio and Resolve Studio.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 10:12 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:Once you have finished tracking, you can copy/paste the tool between Fusion Studio and Resolve Studio.


Well.. it doesn't finish tracking. :/ It has crashed twice now at 130,000 (didn't see exactly) out of 142,000 frames total. :/ I guess I can set the frame start & finish on different Stablizer nodes, presumably?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 15, 2021 10:20 pm

It also crashes --immediately-- if I set the start frame in the viewer to anything other than 0. And I'm talking hard app-crash.. Fusion disappears.. not even a recovery/crash doctor thing. Am now trying with just the first 50,000 frames since the crashes came at around 130 as I said above. But not sure how then I could manage the whole thing.. without carving up the file and rendering smaller pieces first.. I guess I could just apply the speed map and bring it down a bit.. then work on the reduced length video. But I don't like throwing away any frames before I have to.. especially when stabilisation is involved. :/
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostThu Sep 16, 2021 12:54 am

SO this is oddddddddd... retried using the proxy clip @720p. 5029 frame clip. Tracker got to exactly frame 4096, then crashed. THis is FUsion Studio.

Am retrying again with the full 5.7K clip. getting 10-15fps per second. I did see odd spikes up to 2 sec -per frame-, until I realised Fusion + REsolve were eating all my system memory.. I have 64Gb here, thought it would do better.. this is a very basic clip actually. Well I closed Resolve for now and it's continuing... approaching frame 4096...


.. and passed it! Haven't set anything any different from the proxy clip.. only immediate difference is that the base clip is on my 10gbe-connected SMB storage while the proxy is on local (system, but different partition) SSD.
Clip completed successfully, final average 14fps.

And have successfully pasted the node into REsolve. Not perfect stability I would say, but a start. This one I can render and then try to pass again hehe.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostThu Sep 16, 2021 7:22 am

I have no knowledge of network storage, but since 4096 is such a magic number in computing, do you know if there's a limit on the amount of files that can be served from an SMB server at the same time?
Just throwing some stuff out there. ;-)
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostThu Sep 16, 2021 6:38 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:I have no knowledge of network storage, but since 4096 is such a magic number in computing, do you know if there's a limit on the amount of files that can be served from an SMB server at the same time?
Just throwing some stuff out there. ;-)


Yes, eerie. That's why I said "exactly frame 4096"..

However;

1. The clips that are crashing are running from local SSD, not network;
2. The one that worked all the way, --was-- running from the network;
3. The longer clip that crashed, got much much further than the shorter clip that crashed, so the 4096 (while certainly indicative) was not -universal-.

But my real problem is the Resolve issue. Using Fusion would be manageable, but it means I would literally have to render out my clip and then re-proxy if I need to pass a 2nd stabilizer - which I do sometimes from the Qoocam 8K or when the gyro on the INsta360 has gone nuts - happens on occasion.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostFri Sep 17, 2021 1:06 am

Fusion Studio however is not behaving reliably.

* running a pass on the 8K 1/4 proxy, Fusion crashes at 139,810 frames.
* If I select to run only the first 139,800 frames, the pass reaches the end (139,798) but never finalises; it sits (for hours..) on '0.7secs remaining'. I have to kill Fusion to end it.
* If I select to run only the first 139,000 frames, the pass reaches the end (138,998) but never finalises; it sits (for hours..) on '0.7secs remaining'. I have to kill Fusion to end it.
* If I select to run only the first 100,000 frames, the pass reaches the end (99,998) but never finalises; it sits (for hours..) on '0.4secs remaining'. I have to kill Fusion to end it.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostFri Sep 17, 2021 2:54 pm

That's like 75MB of keyframes across the three axis. I've had comps that were >500MB, and they suck. Like literally hours to save and open.

I don't know if I've had 25MB for a single keyframe table, though.

Submit the comp to BMD?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostFri Sep 17, 2021 10:17 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:That's like 75MB of keyframes across the three axis. I've had comps that were >500MB, and they suck. Like literally hours to save and open.

I don't know if I've had 25MB for a single keyframe table, though.

Submit the comp to BMD?


The comp file after analyzing a 3-min, 5.7K video was 22Mb. I was able to copy this node into Resolve.

I don't mind helping to find a find bug or whatever but more importantly I'd just like -Resolve- to run the stabilizer at a suitable speed.. doens't have to be 90fps that I was getting in fusion but something that doesn't take 5x as long as the actual clip would be a start..........
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 4:56 pm

You can make a sample file that doesn't use any footage at all. That can be debugged by BMD pretty easily. You can make a simple 3D scene with a camera inside a box and just put a random rotation on the camera. If that fails at the same points, then it's not the input handling, and you have a 3KB test file for BMD to do testing on.

I'm fairly certain that BMD doesn't test tools with 140,000 frame clips. It might not be Spherical Stabilizer at all, but something else in Resolve that just doesn't like clips that are that long.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 7:15 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:You can make a sample file that doesn't use any footage at all. That can be debugged by BMD pretty easily. You can make a simple 3D scene with a camera inside a box and just put a random rotation on the camera. If that fails at the same points, then it's not the input handling, and you have a 3KB test file for BMD to do testing on.

I'm fairly certain that BMD doesn't test tools with 140,000 frame clips. It might not be Spherical Stabilizer at all, but something else in Resolve that just doesn't like clips that are that long.


It has the same issue with a 3min, 5000-frame clip with lower resolution. Sure I mentioned that earlier.....
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 8:56 pm

Soooo is there a bug in Resolve then.......?
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Oct 04, 2021 7:34 pm

Thousands of them. But you need to submit your bug to support if you want to see it fixed.
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Re: Spherical Stabilizer speed help - 9hrs estimated :(

PostMon Oct 04, 2021 9:10 pm

I'm trying now with the clips cut down to 30mins each. They are completing, kind-of, still some crashes though. comp file is 23Mb for the ones that have succeeded so far. Doesn't seem outrageous.
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