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Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

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brunocbreis

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Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 4:55 pm

I did a vertical shoot for an IG Reels project and the original clips have to be rotated for them to look right.

I do this in the Media Pool in the clip attributes settings, so that it applies to the whole project.

clip attributes.png
clip attributes.png (8.98 KiB) Viewed 18345 times


However, when I open the clip in Fusion, it seems like I lost all of my original resolution because of this move.

Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 13.48.01.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 13.48.01.png (277.23 KiB) Viewed 18290 times


Is there a way to rotate clips like this before fusion processing, without them losing resolution? It feels impractical to have to rotate them all after the fact in the timeline or color page... Or is there a more practical way?

I would love to get some advice. Thank you!
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 5:28 pm

What resolution is your Project set to and what is your Input Scaling set to in your Project Settings?
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 5:41 pm

1080x1920

Scale entire image to fit
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 5:44 pm

The other options don't quite work either...
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Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 14.42.39.png
scale full frame with crop
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Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 14.42.07.png
center crop with no resizing
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 5:55 pm

Try making the clip a Compound clip then switch to the Fusion page. Try the Center Crop.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 6:02 pm

Still doesn't work. I need a way for Fusion to interpret the clip as 2160x3840 instead of the opposite. But Resolve's "Orientation" parameter in the Clip Attributes window doesn't seem to allow that.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 6:20 pm

It seems to be working for me. Can you show what the Fusion page looks like after you have made the Compound clip and switched to the Fusion page? The top picture is before making it a Compound clip, the 2nd one is after. You might also want to try right-clicking on the clip and make it a Fusion Clip.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 6:27 pm

It's working for you because your original clip is 1080p. I need the full 4K resolution if I want to zoom in for an effect.

When I create a Compound Clip or a Fusion Clip, it sets its size based on my Timeline Resolution, which is 1080x1920 (and I want to keep it that way).

What I need is for Fusion to understand that I don't only want to rotate the image, but also the "canvas" that's coming from the Media Pool. So I get the full 4K resolution that's then sent back to my Edit timeline to be scaled as set in the Project Settings.

I'm afraid this isn't possible...
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 6:53 pm

If you don't need to do the zomming in and out from within Fusion, what I did below should work. If you do need to control the zooming in the Fusion page, I will look further into it.

In the images below, I am working with a UHD clip on the 1080x1920 Timeline, it is rotated through Clip Properties and set to Center Crop.

In the first image, you can see that it is full resolution, you are only viewing 1/4 of the total image.

In the second image, I made it into a Fusion clip and switched to the Fusion page. Here you again see the full resolution, you see 1/4 of the image in the 1080x1920 timeline.

In the 3rd image, I switched back to the Edit page, right-clicked on the clip and chose Open In Timeline. I then zoomed in on the image and changed the position a little to reframe it. I then double-clicked the Timeline in Timeline 1> Fusion Clip at the bottom left to exit the Open In Timeline. If you switch to the Fusion page now, you will see the zoomed-in part at the full resolution of the 2160x3840 clip. This will preserve the full resolution while zooming in and out.
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2022-07-01 (12).png
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2022-07-01 (13).png
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2022-07-01 (14).png
2022-07-01 (14).png (901.91 KiB) Viewed 18241 times
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 7:02 pm

I do, though, that's actually specifically what I need to do hahaha.

I'm setting up quick and slow drag-and-drop push-ins at specific speeds to use on a show. I want to be able to control everything within Fusion instead of messing with keyframes in the edit page. I can't not have access to the full clip in Fusion because I will animate it there.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 7:40 pm

I think I figured it out in Fusion. Setup your Timeline for the 1080x1920. Don't rotate your clip in Clip Attributes, leave it at 0. Switch to the Fusion page. Merge your MediaIn with a Background node and set the BG node to the Background of the Merge, set the MediaIn to the Foreground. Set the BG node image height and width to 1080x1920 in the Image tab of the BG node. Finally, set the Angle of the Merge to either -90 or 90 depending on your footage. If you select the Merge node you should see the green outline of its dimensions. You can move the Center of the Merge node and reframe your video and you can also zoom in and out more if you need to by adjusting the size of the Merge node.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 7:53 pm

Thank you for trying to solve this, but it was kind of the point not to have to do that. I want to rotate my clip in clip attributes, because my editor needs to see the clips in the proper orientation in order to work.

Also, I would like to be able to create a generic zoom in template that is resolution (and aspect ratio) independent, which Fusion does brilliantly.

These limitations on how Fusion handles vertically shot media make me unable to do that.

If I want to solve this manually on a clip by clip basis, I can, I am aware that I can do basically anything in Fusion I want, you just have to be clever. But I want to make something that's easy to use and, frankly, it's not rocket science hahahaha. I think this Fusion behavior should be considered a bug.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 11:46 am

Unfortunately, I think I didn't get the goal you want to reach :oops: :P
You want to simultaneously keep the FHD - 16:9 project setting (horizontal) and open a vertical 4K clip in Fusion which would keep its 4K resolution, right ?
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 2:48 pm

I think the behavior is weird. Let me try to explain better:

1. My clip is originally 3840x2160.
2. I set its rotation in the clip attributes window (which should happen before Fusion Effects) to 90º. Meaning I expect it to be treated, now, as a (vertical) 2160x3840 clip.
3. I bring it into a 1080x1920 timeline and that's exactly what happens in the edit page. It looks right and if I zoom in, I lose no resolution at all.
4. When I bring it into FUSION, though, the clip IS rotated (great!), but its canvas isn't. So I get a 3840x2160 horizontal canvas (the original clip resolution) with a 1215x2160 image in the middle of it. The orientation looks right but I lost all of my resolution and I can't even rotate the clip in Fusion to get it back.
Last edited by brunocbreis on Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 2:48 pm

Sam Steti wrote:Unfortunately, I think I didn't get the goal you want to reach :oops: :P
You want to simultaneously keep the FHD - 16:9 project setting (horizontal) and open a vertical 4K clip in Fusion which would keep its 4K resolution, right ?


Oh, and to make it clear. No, my project setting is vertical. I want everything vertical! Hahaha
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 4:28 pm

Hey

Ok; so :
- project in 1080/1920, Scale entire image to fit
- clip attributes : orientation 90° left (original clip is 3840/2160)
Now everything is ok in the Edit, but not when you go to the Fu page...

Now, add a Letterbox node, change its width and height to the right 1080/1920 AND its mode to Pan & Scan : now you see in Fusion what you saw in the edit...
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostSun Jul 03, 2022 12:20 pm

Sam Steti wrote:Hey

Ok; so :
- project in 1080/1920, Scale entire image to fit
- clip attributes : orientation 90° left (original clip is 3840/2160)
Now everything is ok in the Edit, but not when you go to the Fu page...

Now, add a Letterbox node, change its width and height to the right 1080/1920 AND its mode to Pan & Scan : now you see in Fusion what you saw in the edit...


That doesn't work. The clip is zoomed in in Fusion.

I'm positive that this behavior should be considered a bug... I'm going to write an email to Blackmagic. It makes no sense for Fusion to throw away three quarters of the clip's resolution and image because I decided to rotate it before coming into it.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 10:00 am

Try witching your TL properties to 'scale full frame with crop" then...
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 12:46 pm

You can fix the orientation going into Fusion by wrapping the clip in a compound clip before entering the Fusion page, but you lose most of the resolution.

Do this, though, to get the 1080x1920 MediaIn1.

Find the original clip in the Media bin and drag it into the Fusion node graph to create a MediaIn2 node which is at the full resolution of the clip. Set its Trim properties to match the frame range of the clip being produced.

Add a background node and set its size to 2160 wide by 3840 high. Drag the output of MediaIn2 over the output of Background1 to create a merge node. Set the angle of the merge node to either -90 or 90 degrees as needed.

Drag the output of the merge node over the output of MediaIn1 to create another merge node. Set the Size of the new merge node to 0.5.

Do your work in between the two merge nodes.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 8:45 pm

Guys, all of your solutions do work on a case by case basis. Problem is, I want to make a resolution independent preset, and this is impossible due to Resolve working in an unexpected way.

I'm going to try and make my case for this being an issue that has to be fixed – which I know is important, I don't want to be that guy that screams things are bugs just because it's not working the way I want it.

The sizing pipeline in DaVinci Resolve, as stated in the manual, goes Original Media Resolution > Fusion Effects > Edit Page Effects.

The manual also says that the native resolution of media can't be changed, which is, from what I understand, why a Fusion Effect will always inherit a 3840x2160 resolution from a 3840x2160 clip.

However, I argue that the rotation parameter in Clip Attributes SHOULD rotate a clip BEFORE Fusion, which, let's be honest, implies rotating both the image AND the canvas, or not rotating anything at all.

If (1) Resolve can't really change the resolution of native media, I believe that the rotation set in clip attributes should at least not affect the clip in Fusion at all, meaning that whatever is set in the media pool as an attribute should happen AFTER Fusion Effects. In this case, I would open my (rotated and scaled to fit to a 1080x1920 timeline) clip in Fusion and find an unrotated clip in its original 3840x2160 resolution. It would then be rotated and fit after the fact, as per the settings. It's a bit inconvenient, but workable.

Ideally, though, (2) I would open the (rotated and scaled to fit) clip in Fusion and find a rotated clip in a 2160x3840 canvas. Which would be scaled to fit after the fact, to maintain consistence.

However, a third behavior is going on: (3) I open up Fusion to find my clip visually rotated, but put in a 3840x2160 canvas with transparent pixels around it. 75% of my resolution is poof, gone. And what's even more absurd is, since I set my scaling to scale to fit and Fusion is now delivering to Edit a 3860x2160 (thus, horizontal) clip, Resolve scales it back down and tries to fit it again to the timeline's vertical resolution, leaving a transparent border on the top as well. Even when I don't do anything to the clip inside Fusion, just by opening it Resolve is throwing away like 90% of my resolution. It's like the rotation of the clip is happening once (before Fusion), the rotation of the canvas is happening zero times, and the scaling to fit is happening twice (once before and once after Fusion).

I really can't see how this is justified behavior.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 12:42 pm

The default MediaIn1 node in a Fusion comp should reflect what is coming in from the Edit page - thus I agree that you should not be getting a horizontal resolution, but rather it should reflect the timeline content, which in theory means you should be getting a 1080x1920 input on MediaIn1.

I too would argue that the horizontal resolution you are seeing is a bug, but it is a long-standing bug that has been there at least since Resolve 15, meaning that to fix it now could break compatibility with older projects if not done carefully.

If Resolve is smart enough to pass through the additional resolution of the original clip, that is great - but it would be a bonus; failure to do so is not necessarily a bug, as again the MediaIn1 node you are getting is supposed to reflect the content of the Edit page clip as it comes in from the Edit page processing, which is working at 1080x1920, so in theory getting a 1080x1920 version of the rotated clip would still technically be correct.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 10:00 pm

I almost agree. But I do think 1080x1920 coming into Fusion would still be incorrect because if it was a 4K horizontal clip without any rotation applied to it, it would come as a 4K clip in Fusion even in a 1080p timeline.

In a Fusion effect, anyway. If it were a Fusion clip then you would be correct – but this behavior doesn't happen with Fusion clips, since it basically creates a compound clip and encapsulates whatever has been set in the media pool inside the new clip.
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Re: Working with clips shot vertically in Fusion

PostTue Jul 12, 2022 9:52 am

Hi, I will probably end up in similar situation so my question: Would be a current tedious and sub-optimal but better workaround to make the 4K 90 degree rotation then export and import again?

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