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VFX should be easy... I gave up

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BumbleBee

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VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 4:08 am

Anyone know about the new Magic Mask, and how to use it in Fusion, where I just want to change the background... could anyone make it visually for me :D
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 8:26 am

It looks like Resolve color and edit pages, not Fusion. Magic mask is resource hog and produces so-so results with not much control from user. Works for some things but not for others.

As far as I know you can’t send magic mask produced alpha to Fusion, unless maybe through compound clip. But I’m not too sure, haven’t tried.
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 9:28 am

You can render out the results of the magic mask and import the footage with alpha into Fusion, but it won't give you usable results if you want to replace the background.
It's on the color page to make subtle adjustments to someone's skin, face, or body. But even on the color page it's very difficult to get usable results as it will jitter in many situations.
Many people, me included, hoped for a Rotobrush equivalent to speed up roto work but that's not it. And I wouldn't expect this to get updated any time soon. The facial tracking in the color page is still unusable besides being in there for quite some time.
It still struggles with blinking and even when the actor is just talking it will screw up the mask.
The magic mask and the face Tracking both would require a smoothing slider that averages several frames together because they're too jumpy.
But I can definitely say that with a RTX 3070 the performance of the magic mask is ok, and since it's using ML I wouldn't expect this to run on lower end GPUs or CPUs.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 9:59 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:It looks like Resolve color and edit pages, not Fusion. Magic mask is resource hog and produces so-so results with not much control from user. Works for some things but not for others.

As far as I know you can’t send magic mask produced alpha to Fusion, unless maybe through compound clip. But I’m not too sure, haven’t tried.


Since you are NOT next to me. I can't put ALL pictures up what I do.. But I was in fusion also, and that was SO frustration, I couldn't even get the alpha to show up.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 11:33 am

Since we are not next to you we can only see and read what you put up for us. It would be easier to help you if you show what you tried in Fusion and where it fails for you. Copypaste the nodegraph here as text so someone can take a peek at your flow. To so this, select all nodes, copy, and paste the clip buffer here into ’code’ tags.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 2:33 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:Since we are not next to you we can only see and read what you put up for us. It would be easier to help you if you show what you tried in Fusion and where it fails for you. Copypaste the nodegraph here as text so someone can take a peek at your flow. To so this, select all nodes, copy, and paste the clip buffer here into ’code’ tags.


I must say I forgot, how I did it before. But my idea was to use something to have the "poster" on, like a plane and with some kind of alpha and just merge it. I just didn't see any nodes that looked like it could that :D
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Sander de Regt

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 2:42 pm

This is the basic setup of everything in Fusion.
Your media in/loader in Fusion for the poster is 'the plane' and the other shot is where you put it on top of with a merge.

Loader-------|
Loader---->merge

and that's 50% of the whole approach within Fusion.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 4:25 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:This is the basic setup of everything in Fusion.
Your media in/loader in Fusion for the poster is 'the plane' and the other shot is where you put it on top of with a merge.

Loader-------|
Loader---->merge

and that's 50% of the whole approach within Fusion.


A Loader? why that word for a image/video you want to put into the scene? I will try loader then.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 7:54 pm

Because it loads something into comp? ImageToScenePutter won’t be more intuitive...
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Jeff Ha

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostMon Mar 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Sounds like he needs a Fusion 101 course, starting with Loaders.... those crazy import
things into fusion nodes. Channel Booleans is gonna blow his mind.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostMon Mar 08, 2021 7:18 pm

Jeff Ha wrote:Sounds like he needs a Fusion 101 course, starting with Loaders.... those crazy import
things into fusion nodes. Channel Booleans is gonna blow his mind.


sure I NEED a course, it is ******* impossible to learn!!!
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostMon Mar 08, 2021 7:34 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Peter Cave

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostTue Mar 09, 2021 4:50 am

BumbleBee wrote:
Jeff Ha wrote:Sounds like he needs a Fusion 101 course, starting with Loaders.... those crazy import
things into fusion nodes. Channel Booleans is gonna blow his mind.


sure I NEED a course, it is ******* impossible to learn!!!


Many have tried... and many have succeeded! Persist and you will be rewarded with new skills!
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Bryan Ray

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostTue Mar 09, 2021 3:46 pm

There's a pinned topic at the top of this forum with a large number of video tutorials.

If text is more your thing, my website at http://www.bryanray.name/wordpress/comp ... -contents/ has a rather dated attempt at a compositing textbook using Fusion. I started in Fusion 8 and never finished, so the screenshots are of the old UI. However, most of the material is still valid. It does assume Fusion standalone (since the Fusion page in Resolve didn't exist when I started), so there won't be any mention of the interaction with the Media Pool, Edit page, or Deliver. However, just about everything except talk about Savers should be just as applicable to Resolve's Fusion as it is the standalone product.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 3:38 am

Peter Cave wrote:
BumbleBee wrote:
Jeff Ha wrote:Sounds like he needs a Fusion 101 course, starting with Loaders.... those crazy import
things into fusion nodes. Channel Booleans is gonna blow his mind.


sure I NEED a course, it is ******* impossible to learn!!!


Many have tried... and many have succeeded! Persist and you will be rewarded with new skills!


I tried it a few things (same thing) I had to follow a video everytime, and still I can't get the same from the video. To me some of it is really unlogically workflow. I really would love the manual to show how to use every node, on how to connect them.
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Jacob Danell

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 10:12 am

If nodes are confusing I can highly recommend this video:

Very easy and good explained on what's going on and how everything is working :)
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 10:15 am

Jacob Danell wrote:If nodes are confusing I can highly recommend this video:

Very easy and good explained on what's going on and how everything is working :)


I understand nodes... I just dont understand what the nodes are doing! Wierd names and NO logical to what I would think, that is why it is so hard to find out.. it I want to make an alpha... I have to find something els.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 11:12 am

Seriousl question. Can you give an example of what would a logical name be for the node you were looking for and what would it do? i.e your example where you 'want to make an alpha'?
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 12:22 pm

Might sound obvious but I have found that a lot of confusion is derived either from: a) not verbalizing to oneself what should actually happen to image in processing and b) lack of understanding how image processing in comp software works (high level conceptions of layers on top of each other, using masks and adding effects is not it).

So I would expand on what Sander asked and suggest verbalizing some piece of processing what you want to do as explicitly as you can. If it is detailed enough it will answer almost by itself what you need to do. Finding what the name of some node is to achieve some operation is the least of the problems.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 2:32 pm

BumbleBee wrote:
Jacob Danell wrote:If nodes are confusing I can highly recommend this video:

Very easy and good explained on what's going on and how everything is working :)


I understand nodes... I just dont understand what the nodes are doing! Wierd names and NO logical to what I would think, that is why it is so hard to find out.. it I want to make an alpha... I have to find something els.

Thanks, will watch this, to see if anything hangs on :D
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Dhaylen

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 5:53 pm

Listen, you may be interested in the following courses:
https://vfxstudy.com/courses/
(The free one - its a bit older, and honestly had issues with the footage crashing my program)
* So far the paid versions have been 'fine' (no, dont work for the guy) :)

My daughter and I are going through the certification training one.
note: It can be a bit 'long winded' (if you're new, some bits may be a bit too much info overload)

* also, the nature of Fusion, can be sometimes 'unforgiving' with how un-intuitive things may seem at times.

But all and all - its pretty much the best course out there, for a program, that has great potential...
(though 17 didnt throw that much love toward features for Fusion in Resolve - the list is short)

Ill be straight, tempting to jump back to AE, but Adobe and their bloatware... trying to hold off and give BlackMagic a chance.

* This guy has free tutorials on youtube for animating text... kinda good.

Between the two, you should be able to figure out something. :)
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 7:36 pm

* This guy has free tutorials on youtube for animating text... kinda good.

Between the two, you should be able to figure out something. :)[/quote]

In that video he don't use FUSION... maybe someday I get fusion, but if I have a VFX, it will be in After effects, since I can't even find out how to do very simple tasks :D
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RCModelReviews

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 7:56 pm

Fusion was the first VFX/compositing software I learned... which may have been a help because I didn't have to "unlearn" anything I might have known before.

Although VFX will never be easy (nothing with this much power and flexibility will be "easy") I don't think the learning curve is particularly steep. Remember, Fusion is like most applications -- you will use 10% of its power 90% of the time.

Start with small things and get familiar with them... then gradually expand your scope and knowledge as-required.

By learning "simple" stuff first you will be getting familiar with the user-interface and the basic framework commands on which everything else is built.

Perhaps your big mistake is in the title "VFX should be easy" -- no, no it is not :-D
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 8:17 pm

RCModelReviews wrote:
Perhaps your big mistake is in the title "VFX should be easy" -- no, no it is not :-D


Well in After effects, it is easier since, you have "real names" and can turn it on or off. In node-based - the name for what I want to do is SO wierd and unlogically. And this is ONLY the simple things I am trying, some day I can learn it, when videos on YOUTUBE is much better and people there KNOW what they are doing proffesionally now only amatures, who don't even do cool things. :D
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Sander de Regt

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 pm

@bumblebee

You really don't want anyone to help you, do you?

This forum is frequented by so many people who have used Fusion for a living on a daily basis for years and years. They have worked on tv shows you've watched, films you have enjoyed and worked with people who are in the top of their field.

You still haven't answered any of our questions that were meant to help us help you further.
I still don't know what you mean by 'real names' in After Effects compared to Fusion. Does a blur in AE mean something else than it does in Fusion?

It's been a while since I've seen anyone either on this forum or WSL who has been so unwilling to actually learn from the people who spend their time trying to help them.
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 10:25 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:This forum is frequented by so many people who have used Fusion for a living on a daily basis for years and years. They have worked on tv shows you've watched, films you have enjoyed and worked with people who are in the top of their field.



Right now I need to edit it, and I was just trying to do a fast VFX with the background to see it it worked.

BUT working on a daily basis? You really are using Fusion everyday? It is SO frustation with moving things around in the viewer alone that I have to use After Effects or I feel it is impossible to control.

I would think REAL people working with VFX is using NUKE...

But SHOW me with a video, how would you use the rotoscope, made in "color", since you get a good mask, and put a new "poster" in the back of the man. I after effects I would MASK OUT - ADD poster - CORNER PIN and that is it, what nodes should I do this with, and what MERGE should it all come together with so I can see it on final viewer. Thanks.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 10:58 pm

Use a loader, mask that loader with a polygon mask, use the corner pin and merge them all together. All these things are named pretty much what you call them.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 11:11 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:Use a loader, mask that loader with a polygon mask, use the corner pin and merge them all together. All these things are named pretty much what you call them.


I was hoping for a picture to see it, now I have to ask more...

"LOADER" - yeah I need to read about this - unlogically name - when IMPORT file - would be helpful :D
Well, just a matter of getting first help or you don't know this is how to start.

cool, was called corner positioner, I don't know PIN was the word I was looking for a NODE name with.

BUT how do I MASK things out. I don't see anything in "tools" /inspector and I don't see a NODE name, that could work. (maybe I found it "Mattecontrol", but HOW can I make pin points like a mask?)
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Screenshot 2021-03-12 at 00.05.57.jpg
Screenshot 2021-03-12 at 00.05.57.jpg (330.02 KiB) Viewed 761 times
Last edited by BumbleBee on Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 11:19 pm

BumbleBee wrote:
Sander de Regt wrote:Use a loader, mask that loader with a polygon mask, use the corner pin and merge them all together. All these things are named pretty much what you call them.


I was hoping for a picture to see it, now I have to ask more...

"LOADER" - yeah I need to read about this - unlogically name - when IMPORT file - would be helpful :D
Well, just a matter of getting first help or you don't know this is how to start.

cool, was called corner positioner, I don't know PIN was the word I was looking for a NODE name with.

BUT how do I MASK things out. I don't see anything in "tools" /inspector and I don't see a NODE name, that could work. (maybe I found it "Mattecontrol", but HOW can I make pin points like a mask?)


I need to make a future request, to move things, so ALL of the visually will moved. not when I have to millimeter has to find a SMALL ancher point to play with :D
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BumbleBee

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 11:35 pm

No, making the MASK, is not easy :D

Clipping Mode. I have "Frame" on . Isn't that the "pin points" I have made... I don't see a mask...

WHEN I get the mask is there a way to make a moving track, like when color grading in "color"?
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Screenshot 2021-03-12 at 00.31.22.png
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 2:54 am

BumbleBee wrote:
I would think REAL people working with VFX is using NUKE...



Nuke is very well respected among the VFX community. AE has its place in smaller boutiques; for tv commercials and motion graphics, but the common thread among the most respected vfx software is that it’s node-based, which is why fusion’s a great place to start, especially since beginners can access it for free.


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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 7:31 am

Aside from the VFX-and-learning-things-ranting, maybe we could try to help you out a bit?

Do you see the little blue arrow at your '1970 microfon.png'-node? That's the most basic mask-input available, just plug your 'Polygon 1'-node in there...
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 11:59 am

BumbleBee wrote:* This guy has free tutorials on youtube for animating text... kinda good.

Between the two, you should be able to figure out something. :)


In that video he don't use FUSION... maybe someday I get fusion, but if I have a VFX, it will be in After effects, since I can't even find out how to do very simple tasks :D[/quote]

Kinda meant for you to go to his channel and find what you needed... :)

Here you go: fusion


and another:
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Jacob Danell

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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 12:55 pm

BumbleBee wrote:BUT working on a daily basis? You really are using Fusion everyday? It is SO frustation with moving things around in the viewer alone that I have to use After Effects or I feel it is impossible to control.

I would think REAL people working with VFX is using NUKE...


I work mainly in Fusion but from time to time in Nuke also. Honestly they aren't that different. They use a bit of differen channel-thinking as Fusions channels are static while Nukes are dynamic. They both have pros and cons. And then there is some different names on nodes (shuffle/bool). Nuke only has some special tools like deep compositing that Fusion don't have, other than that they are as good as the same so saying Nuke is for real compositors is just bull-talk...
I used to work in AE but after moving to Fusion it will take a lot for me to move back.

Now to help you out some. I would once again highly recommend you to watch the tutorial I posted a while ago, the one teaching you how nodes work. I know you said you know how nodes work but you'll have to think in the flow of nodes also.

Here is a quick tutorial on how to do what you asked for:
(bad sound, didn't setup my mic correctly)

Also, here is two quick-tips on how to mask something out down your node-tree and also how to move things around in the transform-node (or other nodes) with ease:
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Re: VFX should be easy... I gave up

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 2:58 pm

Jacob Danell wrote:
Also, here is two quick-tips on how to mask something out down your node-tree and also how to move things around in the transform-node (or other nodes) with ease:


Thanks, really useful, I will try to learn more, since it will be easier to fix in Davinci, than go to After Effects all the time, to do small things. For this project, I made alpha and roto in AE :D

Maybe I will make my own book, for easy Fusion :D
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