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Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

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rafael000111

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Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostSat Mar 27, 2021 8:49 pm

Hi everyone, I have created a standard "button" composition

Image

But when I click in the Merge9 node, it only moves the text keeping the retangular background static.

Image

I was expecting that the ending merge to move it entirely and with its center correctly aligned with the retangular object.

I'm using Davinci Resolve 17
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UserNoah

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 2:42 pm

The merge only moves the foreground. If you want both to move, you need to add a transform tool after the merge.
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bentheanimator

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 7:14 pm

Yeah, you've run into the classic mindset of After Effects vs Fusion. In Fu the numbers are relations to the incoming plate. A Merge only moves the foreground over the background. You're missing the comp it's all supposed to move over. Fusion doesn't have a Composition Setting like a new Ae comp. You have to create it yourself with the first node you lay down. In VFX it tends to be the footage you're going to affect so it's good to go but for graphics and template stuff, you need to treat your first Node as the thing that will be your overall settings for your comp. Which is why I set a transparent Background node with the correct screen size and frame length. It then is the basis for my render range and color depth and so on.

Set a Background the size of your composition(1920x1080) and set it to Black with full alpha. Then take what you have and Merge those two as a package on top of the Background you made. Then go back and add a Transform between the badge with text and the Merge to the Background. It can be confusing to use a Merge to move a foreground. Once you get used to laying down that first node as a settings node, Fusion begins to work more like how you would think.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 9:05 pm

You have to create it yourself with the first node you lay down.

I have to add: if that is what you're after workflow wise. Not every Fusion comp needs this and it will add some overhead to your composition because you add an unnecessary merge to your comp.

So Ben's advice *can* be useful if that's what you prefer, but it's not needed to work inside of Fusion.
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bentheanimator

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 10:36 pm

Indeed but when people are just starting out the things that get them are stuff like a piece of text not rendering because the underlying Loader/Background tool ran out or the positions are 0.0 -1.0 but are only moving half way through the comp because the tool before them was smaller than the screen size. Little things like that drive you crazy after being in After Effects where it's always pixel based with an underlying composition to start with. I love Fusion because you can do whatever you want in it but that also means there's a bit of discipline that has to be brought into your workflow. This was just an easy way to transition off the easy drugs like After Effects or Photoshop.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 7:05 am

@Ben Fair Enough. I just feel that it's good to mention both options, because adding a BG in Fusion isn't necessarily 'best practice' so you're not actually helping people by teaching them the 'wrong' way, just to make it easier for them. Although I'm sure that as a quick fix it's greatly appreciated.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 3:36 pm

bentheanimator wrote:You're missing the comp it's all supposed to move over.


Which is a fundamental issue with Fusion in Resolve. Not being able to see your output from Fusion correctly while in the Fusion page is super confusing. Even a floating window that showed the final WYSIWYG output would be better than nothing.
Chad Capeland
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bentheanimator

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 4:00 pm

@Sander So, I consider myself still a newb in all of this. Using the above problem, what would be the correct way to handle the issue? I assume he would want to add this to footage in resolve at the end of the day.

@Chad I suppose they could have a "Frame Buffer" node available? Something like what you get in Houdini or Maya with a PostFX output render? Or maybe like you said, a "Viewer" subwindow that shows final. Man, I could see people complaining about the feedback time on that! I would call that a REALLY nice to have but totally understandable if it's hard to do.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 7:35 pm

Noah's solution was the right one in this case:

The merge only moves the foreground. If you want both to move, you need to add a transform tool after the merge.


The tool is called 'merge' so for me - as a long time Fusion user - it makes sense that this is where things are put together (merged) and that the center cross indicates where the thing you're merging is going to be put. So for me it's very logical, but I've literally never used another compositor in my life. (All Fusion ever since 1998).
Sander de Regt

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bentheanimator

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 9:47 pm

I was originally referring to Rafael's use of the merge tool right over the Color node and using the color node as the thing that sets the canvas boundaries. If I had to go back to this later on it would be just one more thing I would have to trace down and fix if I change the screen size or whatever. Setting a base transparent node which theoretically doesn't calculate makes it easier to nudge things without messing up my initial screen set up.

For instance... Say you have the text over red like he has. This time the screen size in 1920x1080. Everything looks good and the text is in the box with a good amount of space around all sides. Later, he has to use it on a new shot. It's a 1350x1080 for an Instagram post. The way this is set up now would be a pain. You'd change the Color node to be 1350x1080. OK, now the Rectangle mask has changed proportions because the Color's ratio is changed. Now the Rectangle Mask has to be corrected for the new ratio and the text repositioned along with the rectangle. Each by hand or you have to parent one to the other. Sigh, that was a lot to move a name tag.

OR... You set a base Background node that defines your screen space. Make the color node and the text just as you have it. Merge those two and then add and Transform between that Merge and the Merge with the Background. Now when a new ratio comes up for reformatting you can just move the color/text merge over a bit with the Transform and call it a day. No resizing multiple nodes or nudging.

I agree that using a Merge for anything other than merging things is a funky way to use it. I always prefer to use a Transform before the merge. I've seen others not even bother with the Merge and just go straight old school to the Boolean for everything. I like the way the Merge tool has the Blend right there below the Apply Mode and operations. It makes it easier to creatively mess with things when you're working on a look. Sometimes you just have to play with the Modes a bit to get the look you want and flipping between the different tabs is a bit slower than I like. After Effects has some really nice things about it and quick switching between different properties by hitting keys is a nice feature.

Anyways, thanks for the conversation. I'm the only guy in my group who uses Fusion and Resolve so having conversations around different work flows and mechanics is always helpful.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Wrong group/centered merge in Fusion

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 11:29 pm

You're overthinking this.

The "Color" BG should be the resolution of the button. So like 200x75 or whatever.

The positioning should be resolution adaptive after the button is made, not before. Either manually position it using the clip transforms in the Edit page, or build a responsive layout system in Fusion that uses the 200x75 button as an input.

Remember, Fusion lets you transform (and do various other operations) outside the image, something like an infinite canvas. So there's no reason to make the button have a huge empty canvas around it that you're trying to manage.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com

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