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pEmitter a paid feature?

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hamzastraat

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pEmitter a paid feature?

PostFri Dec 31, 2021 5:59 pm

Hello, I'm of the first hamza street which is named after me. I'm trying to add some pizzaz (e.g. fireworks) to a little new years video. Apparently there's this fusion function called pEmitter but I can't seem to find it on the free version. Or am I mistaken with this line of thought?

Anyways, happy new year to all.
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xunile

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 6:10 pm

It is under Effects>Tools>Particles.
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Blazso

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 1:57 am

No it's free but even then it's not worth it, seriously just don't even bother, the pEmitter and whole pSystem are just junky. Find yourself some good fireworks footage and just comp it, you'll save yourself a ton of headache most likely.
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Okke Verbart

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 7:53 pm

Whilst there's certainly room for improvement and it can definitely benefit from lots of improvements, I wouldn't classify the whole thing as junky. It depends really on what you'd want to accomplish.

If you're looking for totally realistic fireworks, then it may be very hard to accomplish in Fusion and stock footage or something like Houdini would fit the bill better. If however, it's more stylistic, Fusion could fit the bill quite well.
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Blazso

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 10:12 pm

Okke Verbart wrote:Whilst there's certainly room for improvement and it can definitely benefit from lots of improvements, I wouldn't classify the whole thing as junky. It depends really on what you'd want to accomplish.

If you're looking for totally realistic fireworks, then it may be very hard to accomplish in Fusion and stock footage or something like Houdini would fit the bill better. If however, it's more stylistic, Fusion could fit the bill quite well.


No, I'd say its pretty junky. It's like eyeon gave the whole pEmitter "project" to an intern back in the day and they said meh, good enough 20 years ago but never updated it since.

2D particles cant be sent to an image plane for use in 3D scenes without first being flattened through a merge node/ background combo and then sent to an image plane for use in the 3d scene. Which is just odd and you maybe thinking, but why would you do this anyways? Well to use all of the particle options that only apply to 2D particles like Blur, Glow, blend modes (through the image plane/ software render options), and then what should be simple 2.5D settings to fake more depth in the 2D particles just dont work great... or maybe they only apply to the particles in 3d mode but who knows because options that may only effect 3D particles arent labeled as such the way the 2D options are.

The 3D particle on the other hand can be simply simply applied to a 3D scene (or even 2d with a simple camera node), however! once you do this you lose 9/10ths the options you'd want to composite a particle effect well; like Blur, Glow, and BLEND modes. So the work around to this problem is to actually build your entire 3d Scene with all object and assets in it so; you have like a BG image plane to camera, and then a green screen actor, and some other objects at various depths in the scene. And now you want to add rain with a soft light blend... well to bad, no blend modes. So now replace all of your assets with Black background nodes or materials, this way you can have the particles still going behind those objects and then after your camera render apply a channel Boolens node so you can use one of the color channels to extract the alpha and then use a 2d merge node to get your softlight blend mode applied back over another whole instance of your scene where you have the original materials still...

Like that's got to be a joke... But, it still gets worse, just wait until you try to work with particles, 2D or 3D, with 2d or 3d track, spline, or animation paths and data. This adds a whole other layer of strange behaviors and crap not working as you'd think it should when rigging out a scene.

Oh and dont even get me started on the fact that the pRender node doesnt have any options to increase its DOD and that the, "kill particles outside the view" option has nothing to do with pRenders DOD...
Last edited by Blazso on Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 10:17 pm

Seriously, have you checked who you're responding to?
Okke is one of the leading users of Fusion particles. I don't think there's anything you can tell him he doesn't already know. If he says particles aren't junk, please believe him and put some more effort in trying to learn and use how it works instead of projecting what you would like it to be onto something it's not.
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Blazso

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 11:09 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:Seriously, have you checked who you're responding to?
Okke is one of the leading users of Fusion particles. I don't think there's anything you can tell him he doesn't already know. If he says particles aren't junk, please believe him and put some more effort in trying to learn and use how it works instead of projecting what you would like it to be onto something it's not.



More effort... I've spent days and weeks scouring every damn youtube channel, forum, user manual, wiki, and discord channel available for Fusion trying to get better info about the particles and what I've discovered is that the only thing junkier than the particles is the documentation on them.

Oh and did I mention that the pEmitters Random seed just kind of sucks at creating even random spreads in 2D? Well it does and eyeons solution to this has been add more emitters, change the random seed, and then merge them together with the pMerge node. In 3D the emitter creates much more even arrays of randomness so I guess that's good but like, its 2022... and I swear even eyeon realized this and it's why they dont include a rain particle in their templates because getting a good rain effect from the particle system is an act of delusional devotion and frustration... And I think this problem has to do with the fact that creating good random arrays in 2d vs 3d space is mathematically very different but were stuck with an emitter trying to live in both worlds and not doing either very well.
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Glenn Sakatch

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostSun Jan 16, 2022 5:06 pm

Days and weeks trying to master particles?

Well, say no more...they must be junky.
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alan bovine

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostSun Jan 16, 2022 5:34 pm

I've been using Fusion and its particle system since its inception (DF 4? I believe)

Its extremely capable and flexible, even if its lacking some modern features.

Here's some video tutorials I've made to showcase some of its capabilities and its proceduralism.





Fusion was recently used on a feature film called "The North Sea". All of the atmospheric effects and particles were done entirely in Fusion.



Spend some time getting to know the system and the power of having an image manipulation framework to go along with a flexible particle system.

(ps. you can still do blend modes on particles if you use external shaders, but you youll lose some other functionality)
Fusion video tutorials : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTCeDas53OEcWcRujkQiwLg/videos?view_as=subscriber
Fusion Tools : https://github.com/statixVFX/stx_tools
Nuke 2 Fusion nodes : https://github.com/statixVFX/nuke2fusion
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Rajiv Mudgal

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Re: pEmitter a paid feature?

PostSun Jan 16, 2022 6:01 pm

PEmitter is like any Particle emitter, it emits particles. Even Houdini has the same emiting process.
It's what you do after it has emitted the particles, by using force, apply various filters, that makes the difference.
We have used it subtly and not so subtly and sometime badly just for effect, for wand magic to dust particles to force fields and rockets on one of our web series.
Its not the best but gets the job done quickly. For a web series you don't have time...

you can check it out here:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8500260/

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