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how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

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AthanasiosSgouridis

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how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostSat May 28, 2022 4:14 pm

dear friends, first of all thanks a million for reading my questions and helping me! I have been searching around for tutorials with no lack at all so I will be asking my question here! I have bought some pre rendered speech bubbles that have some animation when coming in and coming out! I would like to track that so that the text that I will add will follow the animation of the speech bubble! i set a starting frame in the middle of the animation, track backwards and forward but since its just a white bubble davinci does not find enough information to track the motion correctly in the beginning and the end! My main problem is that I cant find how to correct those frames for tracking manually ! I can;t find what keyframes needs to be clicked in order to be able to do that and tell davinci what should track in each frame and when i do that, it takes the whole corrections to the entire time instead of that frame only
Attachments
4.png
and davinci takes it to the whole node instead of that frame
4.png (530.5 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
3.png
I set the correction on that frame
3.png (543.13 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
1.png
I do the motion track as far as davinci can detect it
1.png (524.56 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
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birdseye

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostSun May 29, 2022 12:14 pm

Are you tracking in Resolve or Fusion, for which operations do you use Fusion?
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xunile

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostSun May 29, 2022 5:27 pm

You could try using the regular Tracker since you can modify and delete keyframe points in the track.
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2022-05-29 (5).jpg (268.52 KiB) Viewed 1666 times
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AthanasiosSgouridis

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 7:20 am

birdseye wrote:Are you tracking in Resolve or Fusion, for which operations do you use Fusion?


Hello , I am using Davinci Resolve's fussion so that i can save it as a preset and use it on that speech bubble
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AthanasiosSgouridis

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 7:20 am

xunile wrote:You could try using the regular Tracker since you can modify and delete keyframe points in the track.


Thanks will try that out and see if that works !
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AthanasiosSgouridis

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 8:07 am

simple tracker unfortunately does not work ! Let me show you exactly what I mean ! I managed to do a tracking in one type of speech bubble, though it still needs corrections!




As you can see in the dialog at 0:15 , the text follows the speech-bubble ! I want to be able to make that effect in all speech-bubbles that I have purchased and in order to do that correctly , I need to make corrections and adjustments in some keyframes with planar tracking. How is that possible ? As I mention in the first post, when I do the corrections, it looses all previous marks and keeps the new ones!

Thank you in advance
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 8:25 am

Anyone know the reason why planar tracker doesn’t have the basic feature of exporting cornerpin data from it into corner positioner?
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 1:17 pm

Hey

I cannot check and/or send some code here now, but anything should be modified in the spline view of the tracker, by deleting or moving keyframes there...
BTW, the planar tracker provides a "planar transform" node by clicking at the bottom of its parameters after the tracking's completed, I assume you know that and how to use it, right ?
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 1:47 pm

Sam Steti wrote:BTW, the planar tracker provides a "planar transform" node by clicking at the bottom of its parameters after the tracking's completed, I assume you know that and how to use it, right ?

How do I actually access the corner points of planar surface here? This is what puzzles me. Because I see just compound keys for the transform, without any access to separate corners. If operation mode of PlanarTracker is corner pin, it gives access to points but doesn't track and vice versa. My impression is that planar transform has its reference surface constrained by image frame (so transformation is set to unity for reference frame) but what would be desirable is user setting of the planar surface by specifying the corners explicitly.

This access would also solve the OP question about correcting the tracking because having access to planar surface itself would allow manual futzing with the curves, smoothing sections and all kinds of other fixes.
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostMon May 30, 2022 3:24 pm

Ok, now I can check, and I confirm... that I don't understand your issue :)
How do I actually access the corner points of planar surface here?

Either on the viewer, or in the paramaters...
You set a reference time > you track > you go and set Operation Mode of the planar tracker parameters to "Corner Pin" > you place the 4 corners of your the square in the viewer wherever you like and insert whatever pics or clip in the green input of the PT node, et voilà...
This newly inserted asset will follow the track you made when you were on Opertion mod : track
If operation mode of PlanarTracker is corner pin, it gives access to points but doesn't track

:shock: You track FIRST (operation mode : track), then go there (operation mode : corner pin) and move the 4 corners AND input something...
BTW you can access to the track KF in the spline view and the 4 corners in the parameters (Reference Time Positions below) that you can also animate...
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 8:21 am

I'll try to rephraze the question. What I meant was that corner pin corners are using the tracking data but their positions in screen space are not available from tracking, at least I can't find a way how to access that. There are only positions on reference frame which one can animate ofcourse but this doesn't allow actual modifications to underlying tracking motion. Tracking data keyframes contain the planar transform matrix, but how do you decompose it to something like reference plane corners?

I admit I might be missing something obvious, I'm not an everyday Fusion user.
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 10:25 am

Hey,

Since I wouldn't modify the tracking numbers itself but the result on how a clip moves as a result instead, I never tried to apply changes on the tracking data (as I maybe could in Mocha Pro), but I would add a transform node to change anything related...

Here, either I could animate the reference frames positions, or - what I would probably choose - I'd add a transform node, 1/ after the resulted planar transform or 2/ after the planar tracker itself, depending on how I use the track to apply moves to an object...

But as an alternative way to reach your goal, tell me why this is a real problem actually :
this doesn't allow actual modifications to underlying tracking motion

What problem would it solve for you ?
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 10:41 am

Sam Steti wrote:What problem would it solve for you ?

This way one can manipulate (clean up, smooth etc) the tracking data itself instead of adding complexity by correcting erroneous areas frame by frame by adjusting reference corners and layering additional motion on top of underlying motion to compensate.
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 11:36 am

If you want to do that, you must either open the spline view and mess with points here, or select the whole mask in the viewer > right click > planar tracker : patter > publish > publish points.
You'll see them in the parameters then, and can animate them... But this is the area where Fusion looks, not the data.
You could also publish the center instead of the pattern, and find its points in the modifiers tab of the parameters
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 11:58 am

Spline view shows me compound key per each frame, how can I decompose it to something useful? If I do publish points, how do I gain access to actual animation of published points? Their values are static in UI and spline editor doesn't show any curves for them.

Maybe I'm daft but I can't figure it out. Could be helpful for others too, once my hard head gets it :D
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostTue May 31, 2022 4:04 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:If I do publish points, how do I gain access to actual animation of published points?

You'll see them in the parameters then

Specifically at the bottom of the parameters (maybe in the modifier tab of the parameters node, I'm no more in front of it)...
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 12:49 pm

Sam Steti wrote:
Hendrik Proosa wrote:If I do publish points, how do I gain access to actual animation of published points?

You'll see them in the parameters then

Specifically at the bottom of the parameters (maybe in the modifier tab of the parameters node, I'm no more in front of it)...

These published values in params tab (when publishing planar track shape points) and in modifiers panel (when publishing corner pin points) are static, they don't change. And there is nothing exposed in spline editor. This is the problem: how do you actually access the animation paths of these points to modify them? Specifically the corner pin points, because track shape doesn't give anything useful to tracking data.
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 3:09 pm

I don't remember but I think the rare times I touched the track path KF were on the viewer directly, probably with the regular tracker...
Never had to modify the planar tracker, but Bernd and his funny german accent might help you here
around 17:30 ;)
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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 5:08 pm

A while after dipping my toe into Fusion, I tried to compare the Planar tracker in Fusion with Mocha which I knew quite well. The conclusion that I came to at the time was that there is a bug in the planar tracker, that prevents the points being represented as x/y co ordinates in the spline graph. When I selected each corner point and converted to x/y co ordinates, as you would with the point tracker, only the x/y points of the corner pin offsets were shown as x/y points in the spline graph but the track remained compound co ordinates. The corner points could be corrected using offsets in the modifiers and each corner pin could be corrected separately in the corner pin controls but the actual track could not be correct.
Here is the test project which includes a moderately chalenging clip.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

It may be an earlier version as I think I had a point tracker corner pin in there as well to compare . To make it a fair fight, I didn't tweak any Mocha settings or adjust the track and didn't pre process the clip.
I didn't adjust the Center x and y of each corner in this comp. That appears to be the only way to correct the track although strickly speaking, it is an offset, not a correction. it's far from perfect, so maybe I will have a go at fixing the track with the centre offset, if no one comes up wit a way of actually correcting the track
As you can see the Hybrid Point mode begins a tantrum around frame 133 and the toys go flying out of the pram at frame 36.
The point mode blows a tyre at frame 137 and goes of the road at 134.
The Mocha track also slipped approx. where the Fusion Hybrid Point mode began to fail but completed the track as did Fusion point mode. Without any tweaking the Mocha track is better and so I haven't really used the Fusion planar tracker again except in basic ideal conditions.
One very annoying trait, I assume it's a bug, is that the corner pin and grid/surface tool will only follow the track in the viewer for one viewing of each keyframe, then it detaches from the track and the corner pin/grid needs to be disabled/ re enabled to get it attached. After one pass it detaches again. This makes it difficult to offset the track. I posted about it at the time but the tumbleweeds must have hidden the post.
I notice, looking again at this comp that deselecting the tracker node and reselecting it also re attaches the corner pin/grid in the viewer, that's got to be a bug.
Maybe there's a answer to this in the tutorial, I haven't seen this one.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 7:50 am

Sam Steti wrote:Never had to modify the planar tracker, but Bernd and his funny german accent might help you here around 17:30 ;)

I’ll try to watch through it all later but that sequence you pointed at is about correcting point tracker path, not planar tracker.
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Sam Steti

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 9:36 am

Yes indeed, however I won't be able to help you any longer on this topic because 1/ I never try to modify the PT path itself in Fusion, 2/ when I'm not completely satisfied I append a xf node after the planar transform, which is animated just where it's needed to correct potential drifts and 3/ I'm a Mocha power user anyway...
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 10:11 am

No problem, thanks for all the info! It would be interesting to know if there is a way though, because converting planar track to actual modifiable cornerpin is very useful.
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Re: how can I correct plannar tracking in fussion

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 4:44 pm

Ah, I see what was confusing me now. After tracking and going to Corner Pin mode, if keyframed corner pin corrections are entered in Reference Time Positions, the modifiers created are shown even when Track mode is selected once more. So those modifiers have no affect on the track, even though Track mode is selected but are corner pin modifiers,
It's a pity Blacmagic won't add a track correction feature. Mocha tracks come in to Fusion as four point tracks, if they can do it for Fusion, why won't Blackmagic.
I think the initial conclusion was correct, use the Planar Tracker for straight forward tracks in favourable conditions.

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