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Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't help"

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footofwrath

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Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't help"

PostSat Dec 10, 2022 1:18 am

Spherical Stabiliser destroys every video I run it on.

Tried to ask BMD for help, they say, tough luck, we don't provide product usage support.

Fusion manual says, move the sliders. Cool - doesn't help. I knew that already.

Is there an actual usable guide somewhere, that goes in-depth into how the tool runs, and why it does what it does, and how to get it to do what you want?
Last edited by footofwrath on Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostSun Dec 11, 2022 10:28 am

I used to have some kind of summary I printed years ago, around the age of Fusion 8 I think... I don't find it anymore and I'm not sure if it was about every tools or just Primatte Keyer BTW (which I don't use anymore anyway)...
But I'm not sure too that you'll have a lot of answer with a topic title like that...
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostSun Dec 11, 2022 10:42 am

Andrew, this issue has come up quite a few times both here and at WSL and for the examples you gave there, 9 times out of 10 you were feeding the stabilizer the wrong kind of footage i.e. static images with - if I recall correctly - jitters/blubbery images which most likely come from the camera being moved by the wind. The jitter comes from the rolling shutter and is part of the image. There's nothing to stabilize because the upper part of the images effectively comes from a 'different time' ie you'd have to shift parts of the image based on where the scanline was at the time of the wind gust. AFAIK this is not the tool's intended purpose.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostMon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm

TBH I seriously hesitate to respond to the spherical stabilizer topics on this forum, FB, and WSL, since the OP wants 1-click functionality vs as a comp TD I might try to describe techniques that require traditional VFX artist skills and effort to solve/mitigate the issue today via a semi-manual labour driven fashion. :mrgreen:

But... if you want an understanding of the rolling shutter correction concepts, for context, here is the old 2012 era Eyeon Fusion Rolling Shutter correction post on VFXPedia. It describes optical flow based techniques to try and solve CMOS image sensor induced rolling shutter artifacts. Things have changed a bit technology wise since that time but it is a glimpse into approaches that were used in the past.

VFXPedia | Third Party Fuses/RollingShutter Description
https://www.steakunderwater.com/VFXPedi ... escription



* * *

Specialized, dedicated, camera tracking tools like the ultra-high-end film industry VFX toolset called "3DEqualizer" have very niche tools for doing rolling shutter based tracking, etc in a controllable fashion.

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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 12:59 am

Andrew Hazelden wrote:TBH I seriously hesitate to respond to the spherical stabilizer topics on this forum, FB, and WSL, since the OP wants 1-click functionality vs as a comp TD I might try to describe techniques that require traditional VFX artist skills and effort to solve/mitigate the issue today via a semi-manual labour driven fashion. :mrgreen:


The tool does exist.. so *someone* clearly thought there was a need/use-case for it. How does it make any sense to say "um you can't expect a tool to do what it says it will do!"?
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 1:00 am

Andrew Hazelden wrote:
But... if you want an understanding of the rolling shutter correction concepts, for context, here is the old 2012 era Eyeon Fusion Rolling Shutter correction post on VFXPedia. It describes optical flow based techniques to try and solve CMOS image sensor induced rolling shutter artifacts. Things have changed a bit technology wise since that time but it is a glimpse into approaches that were used in the past.



FYI my issues are nothing to do with rolling shutter. My footage is flat, but jittery. It's the SS *itself* that creates the jello.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 1:03 am

Sander de Regt wrote:Andrew, this issue has come up quite a few times both here and at WSL and for the examples you gave there, 9 times out of 10 you were feeding the stabilizer the wrong kind of footage i.e. static images with - if I recall correctly - jitters/blubbery images which most likely come from the camera being moved by the wind. The jitter comes from the rolling shutter and is part of the image. There's nothing to stabilize because the upper part of the images effectively comes from a 'different time' ie you'd have to shift parts of the image based on where the scanline was at the time of the wind gust. AFAIK this is not the tool's intended purpose.



I feed it all kinds of footage. Stationary, moving.. I guess just two kinds. The result is the same.
And what exactly would a stabilizer be used for, if not to *stabilize*, the effects of an unsteady camera?

Anyway that wasn't the point of this post. I am looking for actual documentation, usage guide for the tool. Since everyone says "you're doing it wrong". So I would really, really like to find out how to do it right. Then I can shut up until I can definitively say I'm doing it the way I'm supposed to.
Last edited by footofwrath on Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 1:06 am

Sam Steti wrote:But I'm not sure too that you'll have a lot of answer with a topic title like that...


It's exactly what they said. "We don't assist people to use our products". Nice.. I mean if I have misunderstood the purpose of the tool then that would be fine *but where is it written what the purpose of the tool is and how I should use it for *that* purpose*? THat would be a great start if nothing else.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 1:16 am

Sander de Regt wrote:you were feeding the stabilizer the wrong kind of footage i.e. static images with - if I recall correctly - jitters/blubbery images which most likely come from the camera being moved by the wind. The jitter comes from the rolling shutter and is part of the image.


Not sure what you mean by blubbery. I have jiggles, same as if I had been walking, or anything else.

From the user manual:
VR live action often uses handheld cameras, causing shaky footage to be a common problem. The
Spherical Stabilizer node automatically identifies and tracks visible features in the footage, and then
analyzes their movement to identify pan, tilt, and roll rotations. After tracking, it is then possible to
smooth out or stabilize the rotation of the footage.


I don't see what in there invalidates my use-case. It sounds like precisely what I want to do. A jitter is just a tiny rotation in one or the other directions. If anything, my footage should be the *easiest* because 50% of the entire sphere does not change *at all* for the entire clip. All the Stabilizer has to do, is align that physical 50% with each frame, and drag whatever sky comes with it. ANd it doesn't even matter how precise that would end up - the sky is a big empty place most of the time and even when it's not, precisely lining up clouds could not be more irrelevant.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 11:14 am

I remember you posting some time ago.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=149064

If it's the same type of video, then only a lot of manual preparation before trying a stabiliser will ever get you some kind of satisfaction.

p.s. Sounds like someone at Eyeon was a fan of The Prodigy.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 2:38 pm

footofwrath wrote:All the Stabilizer has to do, is align that physical 50% with each frame, and drag whatever sky comes with it.


It sounds like you should just be using a regular Tracker node then?
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 6:09 pm

footofwrath wrote:
Sam Steti wrote:But I'm not sure too that you'll have a lot of answer with a topic title like that...


It's exactly what they said. "We don't assist people to use our products".


To be fair, at one time BMD did assist people in using their products. But those positions at BMD were eliminating as a cost savings. There's been endless discussions over the years about how BMD could provide better service, and while BMD will never say it, there's a tradeoff on software that has $0 running cost and a software company paying to assist it's customers in using the software.

For instance, would you be OK with a $100/month subscription to a BMD support service that provided direct assistance with using the product? Some of us would, some wouldn't.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostWed Dec 14, 2022 6:21 pm

Frank Engel wrote:
footofwrath wrote:All the Stabilizer has to do, is align that physical 50% with each frame, and drag whatever sky comes with it.


It sounds like you should just be using a regular Tracker node then?


That has already been described in detail.... :roll:
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostThu Dec 15, 2022 12:14 am

Frank Engel wrote:
footofwrath wrote:All the Stabilizer has to do, is align that physical 50% with each frame, and drag whatever sky comes with it.


It sounds like you should just be using a regular Tracker node then?


Why does it sound like that? I mean that genuinely - I would like to learn.
The video is spherical, for VR. Seems like Spherical Stabiliser would be the ideal tool for stabilising.. spherical.. VR video.

And an extension of that, one that I've asked many times, but never received an answer on: what *would* footage look like, that would be the footage that the Spherical Stabiliser is designed for? So that maybe I can plan accordingly.





Yes, and as I said at the time, I really, really appreciate your advice on using that method. And once I understand half of the concepts used there, I will be in a much better place to attempt it. What isn't in that description though, is why that process is needed and not the one-click tool. That is the purpose of this thread.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostThu Dec 15, 2022 10:23 am

footofwrath wrote:The video is spherical, for VR.


Thanks, I evidently missed some discussion on this which was not present in this thread as I don't see that mentioned anywhere above.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostFri Dec 16, 2022 5:18 am

Spherical Stabiliser is a one-click tool. Unfortunately, you need more control that that for what you're trying to do. For instance, you can't control what gets tracked. Every pixels gets tracked and for your footage that's not ideal. The 2D tracking tools give you more selective control. It's more complex to set up, but it gives you more options.

Would it be nice if the Spherical Stabilizer had more options? Sure. But what it is today is very much a simple and easy tool.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostFri Dec 16, 2022 5:58 am

Chad Capeland wrote:Spherical Stabiliser is a one-click tool. Unfortunately, you need more control that that for what you're trying to do. For instance, you can't control what gets tracked. Every pixels gets tracked and for your footage that's not ideal. The 2D tracking tools give you more selective control. It's more complex to set up, but it gives you more options.

Would it be nice if the Spherical Stabilizer had more options? Sure. But what it is today is very much a simple and easy tool.


I don't need options, in fact for my scenario the need is as basic as it could get. There's a dark part and a light part. Make them not jiggle around. That can't be so difficult.

I don't need options - I just need it not to turn a clip that needs jitter correction into a giant wonky jello mess.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostFri Dec 16, 2022 10:00 pm

footofwrath wrote:I don't need options, in fact for my scenario the need is as basic as it could get. There's a dark part and a light part. Make them not jiggle around. That can't be so difficult.

I don't need options - I just need it not to turn a clip that needs jitter correction into a giant wonky jello mess.


Ok. Have you considered asking for the SDK?
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostSat Dec 17, 2022 2:11 am

Chad Capeland wrote:
footofwrath wrote:I don't need options, in fact for my scenario the need is as basic as it could get. There's a dark part and a light part. Make them not jiggle around. That can't be so difficult.

I don't need options - I just need it not to turn a clip that needs jitter correction into a giant wonky jello mess.


Ok. Have you considered asking for the SDK?


Right now I'm simply asking for a meaningful user guide, but true, that could be the next step.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostSat Dec 17, 2022 4:49 am

Chad Capeland wrote:Unfortunately, you need more control that that for what you're trying to do. For instance, you can't control what gets tracked. Every pixels gets tracked and for your footage that's not ideal.


Why is that not ideal for my footage?
In my case, 45-52% of the shot is *identical* between each frame. All my case needs, is for the tool to hard-fix that ~50%, and map everything else to it. To me that seems the simplest case of all? Surely any other scene would be at least more challenging for any stabiliser?
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostMon Dec 19, 2022 9:05 pm

footofwrath wrote:Why is that not ideal for my footage?


Because not everything in your footage is stable.


footofwrath wrote:In my case, 45-52% of the shot is *identical* between each frame.


Not in the examples you've provided. Or at least the ones I've seen.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostFri Dec 30, 2022 11:50 pm

Meta Quest's new "Creator" portal has an article on stabilizing 360 video in Resolve:
https://creator.oculus.com/create-build ... i-resolve/
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostThu Jan 05, 2023 12:10 am

Chad Capeland wrote:
footofwrath wrote:
Sam Steti wrote:For instance, would you be OK with a $100/month subscription to a BMD support service that provided direct assistance with using the product? Some of us would, some wouldn't.


Yes, VERY MUCH. I actually put this in as a feature request which, as with everything BMD, will go completely ignored. BMD has entirely abandoned their users and I don't think that is hyperbole. The only time we hear from them is when their marketing department speaks. There is no tech support. Their documentation is best case only and is riddled with functional errors. I see about 2 posts a month with logs and they rarely even respond to those. I've had one up for more than 2 days without so much as a nod from BMD. Some of us are building our companies and our reputations around this software. Then it doesn't work, the client is getting pissed, and anything we do crashes the software. I recently had to restart a 2 WEEK edit because my project files, even the ones I'd backed up successfully along the way, became corrupted. Needless to say, I lost this client who I was in discussions with for a huge project. All this while everything else on my computer runs perfectly which indicates that this is 100% a Resolve issue.

The obvious problem is that Resolve is a loss leader. At $300 lifetime, there is no intent on delivering a quality product. They are a hardware company. They give away this well-marketed software to get us to buy their crap plastic-bodied cameras. There, I said it. I like the image okay (way more noise than the competition), the codec is great, the menu system is the best out there and of course as the cheap cam on the market, they are super affordable. Nobody in the bigs uses BM cameras. Nobody in the bigs uses Resolve (except for color of course.) Bringing a BM cam to set is like bringing a set of GVM lights but it doesn't have to be this way. It's a choice. That is because nobody at BM cares enough to take it to that higher level.

The future of this software is not sustainable. We need a better alternative. I only wish that more people would stand up and call them out for the issues that are very much present and at the forefront instead of blindly cheerleading the marketing team.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostThu Jan 05, 2023 8:18 pm

It's a weird thing, too, because if they did charge say, $100/month, they'd only need to get 1% of their users to sign up for it to have a decent sized team of application engineers and developers. I don't understand why they don't attempt this. It's something they could pilot for a year, requiring annual prepayment, so it would be pretty low risk.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "f*** off"

PostFri Jan 06, 2023 1:55 am

GalinMcMahon wrote:At $300 lifetime,


BMD has not yet charged for a major update to Resolve/Fusion Studio, but they have never (that I have seen) indicated that they will not at some point do so in the future.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostFri Jan 06, 2023 12:00 pm

They've indicated this quite a lot, since in interviews Grant has stated as much if I recall correctly.
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Re: Spherical Stabiliser User Guide - BMD says "we don't hel

PostThu Jan 26, 2023 5:03 pm

Andrew Hazelden wrote:Meta Quest's new "Creator" portal has an article on stabilizing 360 video in Resolve:
https://creator.oculus.com/create-build ... i-resolve/


Interesting.. at least they tried.. thanks for finding this. 8-)


4. Stabilization strength ranges from none (0.0) to maximum (1.0). The default is 0.5.

5. Smoothing has two modes; the default setting of 1.0 smooths detected panning, rolling and tilting to improve viewer comfort, 0.0 locks the forward viewpoint only regardless of other movements, and the slider allows the strength of the smoothing to be adjusted between these two values. Again, start with the default but consider adjusting this if the results aren’t satisfactory.


4 - Similar to other summaries - 'Strength' means what, exactly.. kinda meaningless just to say 'strength'.

5 - a little different to what the BMD manual says, but at least they tried. :)
Main takeaway - play around and see what works. :p Which is where I'm already at heh.

But ok, good that there's at least **something** out there that tries to shed some light on it. :)
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