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After Effects Plugins in Fusion

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gregacuna

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After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 10:23 am

Hi All...

About five years ago we did a project with Fusion 5.3 and we were able to use our After Effects plugins Keylight and Real Shadows. Unfortunately it's been so long since we used the software that no one can remember how to install or where to copy the After Effects plugins so that work in Fusion. We have tried our old copy of Fusion 5.3 and the new Fusion 7, but nothing seems to work.

Have tried putting the After Effects plugin in a folder in the main directory, directly in the plugins folder, in a folder in the plugins folder. Keep getting message: Warning: Unknown tool found.

Help will be greatly appreciated.
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Rony Soussan

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostTue Feb 24, 2015 5:31 pm

Fusion 7 is 64 bit, and most of the plugins from AE are 32bit, moving forward we will no longer support the AE plugin set.

There is a lot of interest now from 3rd party plugin vendors, so we expect to see quite a jump in native plugin support moving forward.
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Win Conway

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 4:01 am

I think the support from 3rd party plugin developers will fall off again, if the lite version supported plugins it would be a strong market, but it isn't so strong on the paid version (No i am not saying the paid version should be free or costs too much, before anybody starts acting all butt hurt, i am just stating a straight business fact)
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gregacuna

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 4:19 am

Since the old plugins won't work on the new version is there any work around for projects created in Fusion 5.3 when bring them in to version 7.5?

If not I'm hoping that there might be someone here who might be able to explain how to get them to work in the old version 5.3. It seems that they are supposed to be in a "aeplugins" folder, but they just aren't showing up.
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VladMafteiu

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 3:16 pm

Win Conway wrote:I think the support from 3rd party plugin developers will fall off again, if the lite version supported plugins it would be a strong market, but it isn't so strong on the paid version (No i am not saying the paid version should be free or costs too much, before anybody starts acting all butt hurt, i am just stating a straight business fact)


I agree with that.
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Rony Soussan

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 5:41 pm

VladMafteiu wrote:
Win Conway wrote:I think the support from 3rd party plugin developers will fall off again, if the lite version supported plugins it would be a strong market, but it isn't so strong on the paid version (No i am not saying the paid version should be free or costs too much, before anybody starts acting all butt hurt, i am just stating a straight business fact)


I agree with that.


You would be wrong.

There is a great amount of interest from 3rd parties now that they see a viable financial incentive to develop. If you support plugins in a free version, then you could essentially code your way out of features that we may introduce in the paid version, again, removing any incentive for anyone to take fusion further.

You can't have both.. A free pro app, with plugin and 8k support, if you expect any company to put any effort in the product. If Blackmagic Design, or anyone business model could not make any money somewhere, then the user would lose out.

There is a trend to want everything for free, but at $1000, again, that becomes less expensive then the sum of plugins you will buy. Let's help fusion develop and grow, and that can't happen if 'everything' is free.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Feb 25, 2015 8:33 pm

BMD's stance on 3rd party plugins in the free version has to be rigid now in order to allow any flexibility later.

They basically reserve the right to allow SOME plugins in the free version, those that have a special key that can only be assigned when purchased through say, a plugin store that BMD runs. I'm not saying they WILL do that, but they CAN and they can ONLY do that if they are hard nosed about the policy now.

If you want some middle ground like that, ask for it. But there's almost no chance that there will be a move toward allowing ALL plugins for the free version, at least so long as the free version is usable. Would you rather have a free version that has plugins but is horribly crippled or annoying to use or the free version you have now that doesn't allow plugins?

- Chad
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Win Conway

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 2:41 am

Wait.....when did a discussion about 3rd parties creating plugins for Fusion turn in to explaining why Fusion free doesn't support plugins and how we want everything for free ?
Nobody asked for anything for free, i just explained market driven development, the vast portion of people using Fusion will use the free version and be happy, that doesn't make a huge market for selling plugins, end of story.
Fusion free is amazing but lets not pretend there is a huge plugin market haha, there is the same market that there was before once the "Fusion is now free" hype dies down.

And i saw not even a whisper of saying free should support plugins wtf did that come from lol can i borrow that soap box next ?
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Chad Capeland

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 2:58 am

Win Conway wrote:And i saw not even a whisper of saying free should support plugins wtf did that come from lol can i borrow that soap box next ?


When you said...

Win Conway wrote:if the lite version supported plugins it would be a strong market, but it isn't so strong on the paid version


I'm not a fan of the plugin lockout, especially in light of the Fuses API, but it is what it is.
Chad Capeland
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Rony Soussan

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 4:16 am

Hmm. It does read a whole lot different than it sounded in my head.
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gregacuna

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 6:31 am

Wow, didn't expect to create a huge discussion around plugins and Fusion though I can see the validity of both sides of the argument.

As far as my problem is concerned it looks like we've figured it out. Thanks BlackMagic for letting us know that the old plugins wouldn't work in v. 7.5 due to the switch from 32 to 64 bit. Have been able to go back to the original version we used to composite the project and it seems to be working now.

Just in case someone else has the same problem we solved it in Fusion 5.3 by:

1. Creating directory "AEPlugins" in the root directory "Fusion 5.3"
2. Find After Effects plugins you own in either:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe After Effects 7.0\Support Files\Plug-ins (OR)
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CS5\Support Files\Plug-ins
3. Copy plugin files and/or folder from above to the "AEPlugins" folder in "Fusion 5.3"
4. The plugins should show up under AE in the Tools menu

Remember that only 32 bit plugins will work in the 32 bit version of Fusion.

Thanks all...and thanks to BlackMagic for the free version of Fusion 7.5.
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 5:53 pm

Rony Soussan wrote:If you support plugins in a free version, then you could essentially code your way out of features that we may introduce in the paid version, again, removing any incentive for anyone to take fusion further.

Doesn't really sound like the same happens to DaVinci, huh? :)

My problem with the missing plugin support not getting some that make the Studio obsolete, but to add viable features that Fusion (neither free nor Studio) have and are not obsolete for many workflows.
A proper Re-noising is the first that comes to my mind, followed by a proper denoiser (the stock one is, well, not so nice). Re-Noising/Grain Matching however is an important thing.


Fusion 7 is 64 bit, and most of the plugins from AE are 32bit, moving forward we will no longer support the AE plugin set.

AE runs in 64bit only since CS5, didn't some plugins make the change? I could see great use of the Match Grain plugin, as well as Keylight (I just prefer it to Primatte), that would be all what I miss from AE :(
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Rony Soussan

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 6:36 pm

Not disagreeing with any of it.
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Pieter Van Houte

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 7:39 pm

Rick Griffo wrote:I could see great use of the Match Grain plugin, as well as Keylight (I just prefer it to Primatte), that would be all what I miss from AE :(


NeatVideo offers a stellar denoising solution that works in Fusion Studio: http://www.neatvideo.com/

For your keying needs, give KAK a try: http://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckle ... p?f=6&t=42
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 9:38 pm

Hi Pieter,

I do have Neat, but I don't have the Studio. However, a proper re-noiser would be way more important :/
I'm a Nuke comper and I actually don't really intend to switch (mainly because Fusion lacks of a few things behind and we are Mac-based), it's just that I use a lot of my free time to help out youngsters and starters, and I see Fusion Lite as a great tool for that (Node based, production approved, stable, fast, Node based, ability to make own tools, proper processing, Node based); Nuke is simply too expansive for that matter.

I saw the KAK before, but it's not my kind of keyer tbh (no offence, I love what you guys put in there). I'm a keylight guy for years, and are just very fast with it. Primatte is fine, I just need to get used to it :) a re-noiser would be way more important.
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michael vorberg

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Feb 26, 2015 10:44 pm

there was Keylight for Fusion for many years, but The Foundry decided to not sell it anymore
but i it was an OFX plugin, so it would still work (and not only in fusion)
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Win Conway

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostFri Feb 27, 2015 2:05 am

Chad Capeland wrote:
Win Conway wrote:And i saw not even a whisper of saying free should support plugins wtf did that come from lol can i borrow that soap box next ?


When you said...

Win Conway wrote:if the lite version supported plugins it would be a strong market, but it isn't so strong on the paid version


I'm not a fan of the plugin lockout, especially in light of the Fuses API, but it is what it is.


If does not even come close to should, never for one minute did i suggest that BMD should make the free version support plugins, i did however state a fact, if the free version supported plugins there would be a bigger market for plugins, again that does not suggest or imply that the free version should support plugins, after all it was a reply about the size of the plugin market and not plugin support in the free version !!
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Win Conway

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostFri Feb 27, 2015 2:12 am

Rick Griffo wrote:
Rony Soussan wrote:If you support plugins in a free version, then you could essentially code your way out of features that we may introduce in the paid version, again, removing any incentive for anyone to take fusion further.

Doesn't really sound like the same happens to DaVinci, huh? :)

My problem with the missing plugin support not getting some that make the Studio obsolete, but to add viable features that Fusion (neither free nor Studio) have and are not obsolete for many workflows.
A proper Re-noising is the first that comes to my mind, followed by a proper denoiser (the stock one is, well, not so nice). Re-Noising/Grain Matching however is an important thing.


Fusion 7 is 64 bit, and most of the plugins from AE are 32bit, moving forward we will no longer support the AE plugin set.

AE runs in 64bit only since CS5, didn't some plugins make the change? I could see great use of the Match Grain plugin, as well as Keylight (I just prefer it to Primatte), that would be all what I miss from AE :(


Lets be perfectly fair here, Resolve has near changed the game for a lot of indie film makers on low to no budget, and i doubt 99% of those have ever even opened a compositing app haha, BMD going after commercial setups with Resolve is more about shifting the hardware, they dont really have this aproach with Fusion, so they restrict its features slightly, which is way beyond fair haha (gift is the word that springs to mind)
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostFri Feb 27, 2015 6:43 pm

Lets be perfectly fair here, Resolve has near changed the game for a lot of indie film makers on low to no budget, and i doubt 99% of those have ever even opened a compositing app haha, BMD going after commercial setups with Resolve is more about shifting the hardware, they dont really have this aproach with Fusion, so they restrict its features slightly, which is way beyond fair haha (gift is the word that springs to mind)

Their output hardware for sure, which is not that expensive to begin with. Cheapest on the market :) but it's not much, we have to be honest here too.
The Grading Panel is of course nice to sell, but I'd bet that many would rather get a Tangent Devices one before making the jump on the original, maybe because you can buy a nice computer plus broadcast monitor from the difference :)

I see where you are getting at, but making a program free and not only for evaluation would always be a pretty dumb decision then. Remember that one aspect of the full DaVinci Software is a Denoiser, which you can easily get into your Lite Version with NEAT (with better results, too). That is a fair amount of "circumventing restrictions"
As mentioned before, it's only really 1½ things that I miss in Fusion. Limit the output to UHD like in DaVinci Lite (yet that would be incredibly easy to circumvent to with stock tools), stuff like that, I don't care. But some things would be nice have, like a Re-Noiser/Re-Grainer.
Also you can restrict which OFX will be loaded to begin with, no? E.g., OpticalFlares won't show up in DaVinci, only in Nuke. Should be possible the other way around too?
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TJWilliamstj

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Nov 03, 2016 1:30 am

There was a great partial suggestion to BMD above that got choked off in the imbroglio....

Let me Rephrase this as a proposal:

BMD as part of their web site build a retail web site where they re-market at a markup any plug in for the unpaid version of Fusion. Keep the 8K etc in the paid version. Allow only plugins sold through their store to install into the unpaid version. This would have the effect of increasing the possible sales of fusion plugins by developers, which would benefit the programmers of plugins having a larger market, make the
paid version even more attractive since more available plugins.
Tom
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Lucjan Hirszmajer

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Nov 03, 2016 4:02 pm

Drop price of your application from 3.500 dollars to 1000
Make it free for use ofr HD and UHD limiting a few aspects which are not blocking functionality at all.
Allow to use free version commercially !!!

Wait for response of unhappy people wanting more, who could use other FREE options like NATRON with support of plugins.

I am sorry, I know it's really off topic, but even having After Effects CC17 I prefer to use fusion.

1000 dollars is not such a big price for software like Fusion
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Chad Capeland

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Nov 03, 2016 5:36 pm

Lucjan Hirszmajer wrote:1000 dollars is not such a big price for software like Fusion


I agree, but the issue isn't whether Fusion Studio is a good value for users, rather it is that Fusion Studio isn't a good market for developers.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 11:43 am

Having spent the $1000 purely to get OFX plugin support, I would be pissed if BMD softened their position on the plugins I use - lol.

I'm dropping the $600 per year on CC in favour of Fusion and Resolve - I will continue to use other tools such as Media Composer, TmpGENC, GIMP and Audacity to round out the toolset. Saving myself quite a bit of money in the long run.
Resolve Studio 16.1b3 | Fusion Studio 16.1b3 | Win 10 Pro (1903) | i9-7940x, P4000 (431.86, 8GB VRAM), 64GB RAM, M.2 boot, SSD scratch, RAID10 data | (laptop) i7-6600, M1000M (2GB VRAM), 32GB RAM, SSD OS, M.2 scratch, T3 external
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Travis Schmiesing

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 5:10 pm

The reality is people value things more if it costs them money. There is zero guarantee that supporting plugins in the free version would generate more interest from developers, perhaps it would generate less interest. If a person using the Fusion is only willing to use it if they get it for free then what makes you think they will suddenly decide to start spending money on plugins when they wouldn't even spend money on the base software.
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Scott Koue

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostSat Dec 24, 2016 6:16 pm

I'll toss my $.02 in.

I am not a VFX professional. I have done sound post professionally for a LONG time and I had worked a bit with FCP and CS4. Mostly to expand options when sound was in a slump which happens periodically.

So I am not a stranger to $$$ software, my ProTools setup rand around $15K.

A few things I have noticed over the years is that programs need to build big user bases. Both Microsoft and Apple largely turned a blind eye to rampant piracy but offered upgrades that would let you get legit and a lot of people got into Office and FCP that way. It was an unofficial way to ease the initial pain and hook people in for the long haul. Even folks who had "alternatively licensed" versions of FCP bought plugins for it. The upside for Apple was that once folks had invested in a bunch of plugins they now had skin in the game and were more likely to stick with FCP.

I had to update my OS finally and some of FCS2 still worked and some of CS4 still worked but neither had a future. I won't "rent" software unless I will be using it to make a lot more than the rent and I'm not making a bunch on VFX. FCPX was not an option because Apple decided to gut FCP of it's "pro" features when it went to FCPX and I won't use a program that I can't export to sound post. So Resolve and Fusion have been a steep learning curve but I am very happy with them. My biggest hesitation was plugins which I have a bunch that I used in FCP that wouldn't come over. Being able to use Magic Bullet (most of it) in Resolve was significant in my decision. Free was great but honestly while I wouldn't have dropped $1K free was not a requirement. I think it is a great choice because you are hooking young filmmakers with no budget some of whom will go on and be committed to BMD.

Personally I think the limitations in Resolve are a very good tradeoff and match the market. I would even argue that you could even lower the output to plain HD. Fusion with the same limits would make sense to me. Basically the starter suite and the professional suite. It's not a killer either way for me since I can use plugins in Resolve. And really that is not a huge price to pay for getting to know software that you can actually use in a professional environment. Killing things like OMF would be a deal breaker for me. The fact that I can bring in FCP6 projects and other than plugins they need only some tweaking has also been huge.

Most of the other posts seem to be people who work in VFX professionally so I though an outsiders view might add to the conversation.
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Rony Soussan

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostThu Dec 29, 2016 7:42 pm

Scott, a lot of the OFX plugins also work in Fusion :)
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Glenn Sakatch

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostSun Jan 01, 2017 8:19 pm

If a person using the Fusion is only willing to use it if they get it for free then what makes you think they will suddenly decide to start spending money on plugins when they wouldn't even spend money on the base software.


BINGO!!!
Who is going to pay 2500 dollars for BCC if they won't pay for the program to run it on. They will just start looking for cracked versions of the plugins to run on their free version of Fusion.

The cost models BM has are great. As an owner or Resolve since it was first taken over by BM, I was disappointed in the number of "paid" features that were moved over to the free version over the years.

I was one of the ones who paid for DNX originally!
Having said that, they treat their paid customers pretty good. I haven't paid for an upgrade to Resolve since that initial purchase.
When I bought Fusion, it was owned by Eyeon. I paid my support a year later, and within a month, BM bought Fusion, and easily took on my license. Again, haven't had to pay for it since.

Keep doing it the way you are doing it.

Unfortunately we are in an era where many feel it is ok to pay for production, but post production should be practically free.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 7:12 pm

Glenn Sakatch wrote:Who is going to pay 2500 dollars for BCC if they won't pay for the program to run it on.


That's not the issue, though. First, BCC doesn't support Fusion Studio. Second, the problem is native plugins that sell for $5 or $25. The Fusion Studio market won't support the volume needed to make that work, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that someone using free software will pay for a $5 plugin.

The value for BDP is that they can now sell more Studio licenses because they can point to the rich 3rd party native plugin support. Right now, can you name a single 3rd party native plugin that's been released for sale since BDP bought Fusion?
Chad Capeland
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Glenn Sakatch

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 4:32 am

The value for BDP is that they can now sell more Studio licenses because they can point to the rich 3rd party native plugin support.


So you are saying they will sell more paid licenses if people can buy 5 dollar ofx plugins to use with the free license?

Don't think so.

At what point in a company's existence does it become their responsibility to provide more and more options of their product for free, so that other companys can cash in on the money saved by customers of both companies?

Would you be willing to do your composite work for free so that the director will have more money to pay to the shooter, in order to get a better green screen shoot for you to composite with?

Thats what we are asking for here. BM, please create your product, give it to me for free, and give me the opportunity to then give my money to a company, other than yours, that is selling software that runs on your free software. If i get enough of those 5 dollar ofx plugins, then i will seriously consider buying BMs software??? Really I will.
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Ludvik Koutny

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 12:05 pm

I also agree with Fusion free limitations. The amount of power we are getting for free with non-studio version of Fusion is incredible. I am so happy to see serious competition to slow, corporate and cumbersome Foundry with their rip-off licensing policies. I want Fusion to thrive, and Blackmagic is definitely going in a right direction. $995 for such a powerful software is more than reasonable.

I feel like The Foundry's products are soon going to end up exactly where Fusion was under Eyeon. They were most concerned about piracy instead of making a great product, and restricted its spread so much it nearly killed the product. Getting even a trial of Fusion was such a hassle before. Now the Foundry is more and more restrictive and closed, following exactly the same direction Eyeon took.
https://www.artstation.com/rawalanche
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Chad Capeland

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Re: After Effects Plugins in Fusion

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 3:08 pm

Glenn Sakatch wrote:
The value for BDP is that they can now sell more Studio licenses because they can point to the rich 3rd party native plugin support.


So you are saying they will sell more paid licenses if people can buy 5 dollar ofx plugins to use with the free license?

Don't think so.


Not OFX. Native. OFX is terrible and doesn't create buy in. No network effect. OFX should stay a Studio exclusive feature.

If there is a vibrant portfolio of native plugins, yes, there WILL be more sales of Studio. Native plugins drive sales of Nuke and After Effects, so why would it not happen with Fusion?

BDP could also use the marketing assistance from 3rd parties.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com

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