Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

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m_magowski

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Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostThu Feb 29, 2024 1:55 pm

If Blackmagic said okay we would love to put BRAW. Blackmagic RAW has done well, especially in what a great software Resolve is, so we would love to enable our customers to have the advantages of both, so no problem we would love to record BRAW. It’s up to Blackmagic if they’d like to give it to us, and we’re ready to take that call anytime.

Atomos CEO – Jeromy Young

Source:
& https://ymcinema.com/2024/02/22/atomos- ... ing-world/

Like many users, I feel like I'm caught in format crossfire which I find completely unneeded and beneficial to none of the parties. 5 years passed since the release of ProRes RAW & the only thing that we have is a DNG converter...

Thus, I'm waiting for any of these to happen:
1) Blackmagic Design products start to capture BRAW from Sony cameras (FSRAW - which was amazing for its time - died along Convergent's Odyssey and right now the only path is through ProRes RAW)
2) Release of ProRes RAW decoder for Da Vinci Resolve (if it's an extra cost, please make it a paid option for the users)
3) Agreement with Atomos to let them license BRAW (again, those who want it will gladly pay extra)

Would love to have someone from BMD to chime in & tell if any of the aforementioned things is possible. Thanks.
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carlomacchiavello

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Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostThu Feb 29, 2024 9:46 pm

Uhm reveal to Atomos, ex Blackmagic Design employer/founder the secret sausages of braw compression and sensors data’s management ?
All After all rumors about Atomos cinema camera developing of some months ago?
I have my dubs.

Why do you think that is a good for users?
Braw can be recorded only if camera producer (Sony) reveal their secrecy sausage of sensor + color science.

Actually ProRes raw recording of atomos is Only record raw data’s from video out, they don’t know the CS Sony to elaborate it to save a Braw.


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m_magowski

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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostFri Mar 01, 2024 10:52 pm

The thing is, we as end users, shouldn't even care about whose patent/technology/science/sausage is working in the background - I just don't want to deal with having to transcode terabytes of ProRes RAW to CinemaDNG just for the privilege to use the files & clog up more drives.

As I mentioned before, let them put a price tag on extra features and give the users a choice. Assimilate saw potential here in adding the ProRes RAW - CDNG transcoder to their Pro Player even though it would be more beneficial to them to promote their own color grading suite as *THE* solution for both formats. Instead, they decided to adapt and unlock a new segment of clients happy to buy their entry software.

Hopefully, each party can finally find a middle ground and stop gatekeeping their technologies - we, as filmmakers, colorists, etc. just want a seamless way to focus on producing great images without having to analyze each of the secrecy sausages involved.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 9:11 am

m_magowski wrote:The thing is, we as end users, shouldn't even care about whose patent/technology/science/sausage is working in the background - I just don't want to deal with having to transcode terabytes of ProRes RAW to CinemaDNG just for the privilege to use the files & clog up more drives.

As I mentioned before, let them put a price tag on extra features and give the users a choice. Assimilate saw potential here in adding the ProRes RAW - CDNG transcoder to their Pro Player even though it would be more beneficial to them to promote their own color grading suite as *THE* solution for both formats. Instead, they decided to adapt and unlock a new segment of clients happy to buy their entry software.

Hopefully, each party can finally find a middle ground and stop gatekeeping their technologies - we, as filmmakers, colorists, etc. just want a seamless way to focus on producing great images without having to analyze each of the secrecy sausages involved.


what i told is that like end user is easier to write to Sony to adopt Braw with BMD tools then hope Atomos reiceve from a direct competitor a tech value like braw.

i'm too an end user, but i'm realistic on my hopes :-D
at today ProresRaw is not avaible on Resolve, and Bmd is in a great deal with Apple, but they did a choise.
may be the same reasons that on their recorder you can record in Prores and Braw.

Why they should give to the competitor the ability have more features than their tools?
its a commercial suicide
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 12:53 pm

BM is a hardware company. Why would they give something to a competitor so they could get the hardware sale rather than selling a Video Assist or a camera. I too have Atomos Ninja V's both GH6 and GH5S both can record Prores RAW to those Ninja's. Also bought Assimilate from Atomos. Then of course EDIUS will edit both ProRes RAW and BRAW so I have a way now of dealing with both. What I would really like is Panasonic to record BRAW internally ( or to SSD over USB C ) rather than over HDMI. I do not think this will happen as BM would not get a hardware sale. BRAW on Panasonic is a way of BM getting a hardware sale of Video Assist.

From our point of view with either free or incredibly low cost software we need to buy their hardware to keep the company making money and issue software. If you really want BRAW then buy a Video Assist or a BM camera. I think that is fair exchange.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 2:15 pm

SkierEvans wrote:From our point of view with either free or incredibly low cost software we need to buy their hardware to keep the company making money and issue software. If you really want BRAW then buy a Video Assist or a BM camera. I think that is fair exchange.


External BRAW does not work on the Pocket6K cameras because of the limitation of the HDMI output. I'm also pretty sure this would be the same with an Atomos Monitor as well.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 2:25 pm

jallen0 wrote:
External BRAW does not work on the Pocket6K cameras because of the limitation of the HDMI output. I'm also pretty sure this would be the same with an Atomos Monitor as well.



You do not need to record to external HDMI with Pocket as they record BRAW internal ( or to SSD )
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 2:48 pm

SkierEvans wrote:
jallen0 wrote:
External BRAW does not work on the Pocket6K cameras because of the limitation of the HDMI output. I'm also pretty sure this would be the same with an Atomos Monitor as well.



You do not need to record to external HDMI with Pocket as they record BRAW internal ( or to SSD )


If you want a backup you need to. Single point of recording is just a failure point waiting to happen. I was disappointed when I first came to Blackmagic and purchased two 12G 7" monitors and then realized they would not record BRAW from my Pocket cameras.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 3:05 pm

I am not sure there is any camera that will shoot a RAW backup when shooting RAW. There may be some that will record a proxy at the same time ( BM Cinema 6K ). Yes I do not have a BM camera since the HDMI is only HD however if I want to record ProRes RAW or BRAW from my GH6 then there is no backup to Ninja or Video Assist ( no simultaneous internal record ) . The real weakness of external recording. For most cases on GH6 I can record backup internally ( to both cards ) or external over HDMI. Having tried ProRes RAW compared to just shooting V log I do not think it is worth it for what I do anyway. So now shoot V log all the time. Ninja's are now used as monitors !!
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 3:58 pm

Problem: Two Australian companies sitting in each other's hair on the world stage of video.
Facts:
Blackmagic Design revenue: $350M+
Atomos revenue: $40M+

Blackmagic Design acquiring Atomos = problem solved.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 4:26 pm

The day Blackmagic gives Atomos 1 penny will never come.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm

Anyone thinking companies should be willing to sacrifice their employee's jobs, and their investors funds, simply to provide a simpler workflow for some users ... is pretty naive, unknowing, or self centered.

Yea, there's several decisions companies have made that have made my work less easy or simple. Yes, that's frustrating.

But I also have an understanding of *why* they must make those decisions. Frustrating as that is.

I've had to make similar decisions in my own business over the years. And that I needed to make them, was as frustrating to me as the OP's dilemma.

But as necessary for my company.

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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostWed Mar 06, 2024 1:21 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:Uhm reveal to Atomos, ex Blackmagic Design employer/founder the secret sausages of braw compression and sensors data’s management ?
All After all rumors about Atomos cinema camera developing of some months ago?
I have my dubs.

Why do you think that is a good for users?
Braw can be recorded only if camera producer (Sony) reveal their secrecy sausage of sensor + color science.

Actually ProRes raw recording of atomos is Only record raw data’s from video out, they don’t know the CS Sony to elaborate it to save a Braw.


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Hi,
I'm not sure what you say is right, or maybe I didn't understand. Many cameras that offer the option of recording raw off camera, do so for both ProRes raw on Atomos, and BRAW on VideoAssist.

There are two issues being discussed here, one is the option of recording BRAW on Atomos hardware, I agree this is doubtfull it will happen. You want BRAW recording you must buy a VideoAssist. The second is recording braw from a Sony camera, this is dependent upon an agreement between Sony and BlackMagic, I don't see why that could not happen. Sigma, Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, Z-cam and even Leica allow for recording of BRAW with their cameras, why not Sony ?

There is a petition going on asking for Sony to support BRAW:
https://www.change.org/p/sony-add-braw-support-for-sony-a7s-iii-fx3-to-video-assist


Then there is a third issue, and that is being able to use ProRes raw in Resolve, and that is obviously dependent upon an agreement between BlackMagic Design and Apple. I would think they would both benefit. Worthwhile note, until the appearance of ProRes raw, Resolve was known as the application that could read pretty much all formats and codecs. Now there is probably an economic reason behind this, but the fact is we all loose, and format wars, in the long run, have never been beneficial for the vast majority of people and maybe for no one. There is also a petition asking for ProRes support in Resolve, more people sign it, the better:
https://www.change.org/p/add-prores-raw-editing-capability-to-davinci-resolve

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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostWed Mar 06, 2024 5:08 pm

rNeil H wrote:Anyone thinking companies should be willing to sacrifice their employee's jobs, and their investors funds, simply to provide a simpler workflow for some users ... is pretty naive, unknowing, or self centered.

Yea, there's several decisions companies have made that have made my work less easy or simple. Yes, that's frustrating.

But I also have an understanding of *why* they must make those decisions. Frustrating as that is.

I've had to make similar decisions in my own business over the years. And that I needed to make them, was as frustrating to me as the OP's dilemma.

But as necessary for my company.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

My argument for Blackmagic Design to acquire Atomos has nothing to do with the things that you write.

Atomos provides devices that monitor and record video. That is already part of Blackmagic Design's full product range and is compatible with what they offer. I believe it would be beneficial for Blackmagic Design to include Atomos' business in their product suite.
Last edited by Cary Knoop on Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostWed Mar 06, 2024 5:18 pm

I see no incentive for Black Magic to allow ProRes RAW on Resolve. They make money on hardware not software. I think the software is there to encourage hardware sales. Why would they want to give the sale to Atomos ? They would like you to buy a Video Assist and use BRAW.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostWed Mar 06, 2024 9:25 pm

I get the impression that there's some desperation from Atomos side.
BMD have a great lineup where hardware and software supports each other and offers loads of synergies.

In-camera raw recording is picking up speed and soon there is no legal reasons to do so externally.
After that only leverage Atomos have is monitors are TC which they purchased with TCS - which in itself is under very tough competition.
So trying to get the possibility to incorporate braw would expand their market by getting a piece of BMDs customer base.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostSat Mar 09, 2024 9:24 pm

m_magowski wrote:
If Blackmagic said okay we would love to put BRAW. Blackmagic RAW has done well, especially in what a great software Resolve is, so we would love to enable our customers to have the advantages of both, so no problem we would love to record BRAW. It’s up to Blackmagic if they’d like to give it to us, and we’re ready to take that call anytime.

Atomos CEO – Jeromy Young

Source:
& https://ymcinema.com/2024/02/22/atomos- ... ing-world/

Like many users, I feel like I'm caught in format crossfire which I find completely unneeded and beneficial to none of the parties. 5 years passed since the release of ProRes RAW & the only thing that we have is a DNG converter...

Thus, I'm waiting for any of these to happen:
1) Blackmagic Design products start to capture BRAW from Sony cameras (FSRAW - which was amazing for its time - died along Convergent's Odyssey and right now the only path is through ProRes RAW)
2) Release of ProRes RAW decoder for Da Vinci Resolve (if it's an extra cost, please make it a paid option for the users)
3) Agreement with Atomos to let them license BRAW (again, those who want it will gladly pay extra)

Would love to have someone from BMD to chime in & tell if any of the aforementioned things is possible. Thanks.

I would love to see this :)
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostMon Mar 11, 2024 12:33 am

SkierEvans wrote:I see no incentive for Black Magic to allow ProRes RAW on Resolve. They make money on hardware not software. I think the software is there to encourage hardware sales. Why would they want to give the sale to Atomos ? They would like you to buy a Video Assist and use BRAW.


I agree, although an Atomos Ninja V customer, I understand BlackMagic's decision to focus on their own BRAW and Video Assist products.

That said, I use ProRes RAW as my source files, but use the Apple "Compressor" app that is available on the Apple store for $49.95 USD. I can convert to ProRes 422 through 4444 XQ with Alpha.

Fortunately all of those formats are supported in DaVinci Resolve Studio and allow me to use an excellent editing software platform.

I have to do an extra step, but if that were a real issue, I'd move to the Video Assist devices instead.
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Re: Atomos is ready to put BRAW in their recorders!

PostMon Mar 11, 2024 11:39 am

SkierEvans wrote:I see no incentive for Black Magic to allow ProRes RAW on Resolve. They make money on hardware not software. I think the software is there to encourage hardware sales. Why would they want to give the sale to Atomos ? They would like you to buy a Video Assist and use BRAW.


The voice over artist speculates that Blackmagic limits ProRes RAW in Resolve to boost hardware purchases like as Video Assist, hence promoting BRAW usage.

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