Digitsing VHS-C using Ultrastudio 4K mini

Hi Everyone,

Hope im posting this in the right section! Ive been trying to digitise some VHS-C tapes using the Ultrastudio 4K Mini. I pop the VHS-C in an adapter which allows me to play it in a normal VHS player (a JVC HR-S8700) which i connect to the Ultrastudio mini and then record in media express. But no matter what i do the sound does not match up...ive seemingly tried everything. Now i know this is because of dropped frames but the JVC HR-S8700 has a built in TBC so i dont get why the sound isnt matching up. I do have access to TBC's but seems extreme to connect the VHS player to a TBC then to the Ultrastudio

Am i missing something obvious? any advice greatlty appreciated as its driving me nuts!

Hello, I apologize I have no solution to your problem. It seems that the issue you're encountering is quite common in the VHS digitization process.
I am working on digitizing my VHS tapes to 4K resolution and would appreciate your insights. Did you connect the VCR directly to the UltraStudio 4K Mini, or did you use an Analog to SDI converter to connect the S-Video or Composite output of the VCR to the SDI input of the UltraStudio 4K Mini? Additionally, did you connect the UltraStudio 4K Mini to your computer via Thunderbolt 3?
Thanks!

Hi Lucas, thanks for your comments. I found a solution that seems to work better and is more stable although do still sometimes encounter dropped frames which causes audio to not sync properly. Yes initially was connecting VHS player (JVC HR S8700) direct to ultrastudio via component then thunderbolt3 to PC. This was causing very bad dropped frames and audio mismatch.

Solution: Connected VHS player to multi-system TBC (Globalmediapro X-401 Multisystem TBC) via component. The out from the TBC via component to Sony Digital Betacam (DVW A500P)…then out from the betacam via SDI to ultrastudio, then thunderbolt3 to PC. Very long winded and I appreciate that most people don’t have access to betacam or TBC. But this seems to provide a better stable signal for the VHS-C, maybe because SDI out from betacam provides a constant stable signal. The dropped frames and audio mismatch could be to do my PC…..maybe my PC just isn’t quite good enough! Also have found that if you get a particularly bad VHS-C tape with loads of dropped frames its better to record it in sections of say 20-30mins then stitch together on da vinci

Hi Adam, I’m glad to hear you found a solution to your problem. I wanted to ask if you would recommend upgrading from the UltraStudio 4K. I’m looking to digitize and enhance my VHS tapes and have come across other products like the Teranex Mini Analog to SDI and the Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI, which could help me achieve the 4K upgrade I’m aiming for. My plan is to connect the VHS player to the Teranex Mini Analog to SDI, and then connect it to the Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI to get a 4K upgrade for my computer.

Could you share your experience with the UltraStudio 4K? Have you gotten great image results with it? I’d like to gather more information on these devices to better understand what I can expect. Thanks again!

Even with the JVC HR-S8700's built-in TBC, dropped frames can still occur due to various reasons like signal degradation or sync issues. One potential solution is to ensure all connections are secure and to try using high-quality cables to minimize signal loss. Additionally, adjusting the capture settings in Media Express, such as the frame rate and resolution, might help. Have you tried connecting the VHS player to an external TBC before the Ultrastudio to see if it improves synchronization? Sometimes an external TBC can handle signal stabilization better than an internal one. Any specific patterns in the audio desync you’ve noticed, like it getting progressively worse or fluctuating?

Hi Lucas,

Yeah its kind of a solution..whats odd is that I’ve noticed that when playing VHS-C or Hi8 tapes sometimes the UltraStudio (which displays the number of frames in the buffer during playback/recording) will start to drop buffers and the frame count on the front display turns from black to red. I’ve no idea why it does this or what the black to red means. But I think this is whats causing the audio to not quite be in sync. Oddly it doesn’t do this (or I’ve not been able to replicate it) with VHS, Betacam, U-Matic, 1inch tape etc….only the smaller format tapes like Hi8 and VHS-C.

In terms of the general overall experience with the Ultrastudio 4K its been really good (up until this issue with the buffering). Personally if you can afford it id go with the Ultrastudio 4K mini (around £900) or you could go for the UltraStudio HD Mini (around £400-£500). Personally though in my opinion it would be massive overkill to capture VHS at 4K as this wont improve the overall image. Yes you’ll end up with a 4K file but the original source (the VHS) is still only 576lines. You’ll also end up with huge file sizes and not a massive improvement in quality. So you don’t need to go anywhere near as high as 4K to capture VHS adequately

Even with the JVC HR-S8700's built-in TBC, dropped frames can still occur due to various reasons like signal degradation or sync issues. One potential solution is to ensure all connections are secure and to try using high-quality cables to minimize signal loss. Additionally, adjusting the capture settings in Media Express, such as the frame rate and resolution, might help. Have you tried connecting the VHS player to an external TBC before the Ultrastudio to see if it improves synchronization? Sometimes an external TBC can handle signal stabilization better than an internal one. Any specific patterns in the audio desync you’ve noticed, like it getting progressively worse or fluctuating?

Hi there, thanks for your comments. Yep I even connected the JVC to a dedicated separate TBC. I have tried other connecting cables except for a new thunderbolt3 cable. I guess could be the thunderbolt port or cable? Have played around with capture settings too to see if that makes any difference but it didn’t correct the issue. With the audio it seems to be out by around 1-2 seconds…which obviously I can correct in da Vinci but this throws other areas of audio out and starts getting very laborious to just capture one tape. The buffer rate dropping to zero (and in turn freezing the picture) is a problem I’ve seen others post about but not found an answer to yet. Up until about a couple of months ago the unit worked perfectly. Maybe it’s been an update that’s thrown it out….should I try an older software version?

Are you sure it’s a thunderbolt cable and not a lower bandwidth usb-C cable?

I'm quite sure that no hardware, like Teranex or UltraStudio, will give you acceptable UHD from any old analog tape. You are just wasting space.
The best you can do is digitizing as it is, without any de-interlacing, at the best quality your hardware is capable of. Then apply Topaz Video AI, if you have a strong machine and the patience for it, and go for HD.

Are you sure it’s a thunderbolt cable and not a lower bandwidth usb-C cable?

Hi there, yes definitely correct TB cable (tested and working) and connected to the right ports

I'm quite sure that no hardware, like Teranex or UltraStudio, will give you acceptable UHD from any old analog tape. You are just wasting space.
The best you can do is digitizing as it is, without any de-interlacing, at the best quality your hardware is capable of. Then apply Topaz Video AI, if you have a strong machine and the patience for it, and go for HD.

I should of added that we arent capturing at anything like UDH, as you say theres no point with analogue tapes.

We might possibly of cured the buffering issue through a series of software/firmware updates but still having issues with the sound being out of sync with VHS/VHS-C/Hi8....even if pass the VHS player through a TBC before signal goes into ultrastudio. Have also tried using a VHS player with a built-in TBC.

We might possibly of cured the buffering issue through a series of software/firmware updates but still having issues with the sound being out of sync with VHS/VHS-C/Hi8....even if pass the VHS player through a TBC before signal goes into ultrastudio. Have also tried using a VHS player with a built-in TBC.

There's probably 2-3 frames of delay through the TBC, so you'll have to hardwire a digital delay on the analog audio signal and dial it back X number of milliseconds to get the signal lined up. I know it's 33ms for 5 seconds, but you'll have to do tests to figure out what you need in your specific situation.

If everything is delayed a few frames why not just resync in an NLE like Resolve? It’s an extra step but if it’s only a few tapes then it’s not too bad IMHO.

If everything is delayed a few frames why not just resync in an NLE like Resolve? It’s an extra step but if it’s only a few tapes then it’s not too bad IMHO.

Sadly i have around 1500 tapes to process (mixture of VHS, betacam, U-matic etc). I did try to resync once worked out how much the audio was out by but even this was problematic...as parts would be in sync and other parts werent.

But i think ive finally fixed the issue...this helped no end viewtopic.php?f=3&t=199428

This has certinaly cured the buffering that the unit was doing..ive tested a few tapes now and the buffering hasnt reoccured. Something else i noticed was that once i had the raw digitised file, and i played it in media express (which is on latest version) from the beginning..it was now ok (possibly due to the fix above) but if i used the slider to jump to a different point on the timeline that seemed to knock the audio out of sync and it wouldnt recover unless you exited media express and played the file from the beginning again. If i played this same raw file in say VLC it was fine, even when jumped to different points on the time line. So now starting to think the audio sync issue is something to do with media express. Im certain the buffering was initally causing issues with the sound not being sync'd but that is seemingly now cured. Now i think the issue is playback in media express, especailly when you jump around on the timeline