Color Space Transform with set Timeline Color Space

Hello,

I looked at this tutorial (because of my other problem I had):

And he Changes Color Space in Timeline to Davinci YRGB Colormanaged>HDR

timeline_color_space.jpg (99.08 KiB) Viewed 2055 times

Second thing is on RightClick on Clip > Input Color Space > Canon CinemaGamut/Canon Log3 (that is in my case, he has different one).

clip_color_space.jpg (131.89 KiB) Viewed 2055 times

When I do this, clips get "color grade", which makes sense as Davinci now understands what kind of footage it has, what to transform etc...

In this case when I go to Color Page, is there requirement to use Color Space Transfrom or not? As this makes my footage oversaturated and just not looking as great. I use Cinema Gamut and C-log3 to Rec.709 + Rec.709A (A or none A just makes it more bright).

color_page.jpg (181.88 KiB) Viewed 2055 times

Thank you.

I don’t believe there is a requirement to do a CST to Rec709 output color space since DVR is already doing it. I would just do some adjustments to reduce saturation and do what other adjustments you need to take the image to your liking.

I was thinking same, because exactly - when I define this "conversion" on timeline then it probably is not nacessary to do "another" conversion in Color Page.

Will see what other may say but my idea was same - not needed

Thank you.

If you are using Davinci YRGB Colour Managed, then if the input media has been correctly recognised (from its file name and/or metadata), OR you've manually told Resolve what colour space the media is in (groups can be useful for this I believe), then Resolve will automatically replicate what an input CST is doing in the Colour page, so no need to add one.

Similarly it will also do what an output CST would do to get you to Rec 709 - so no need to do that either.

This should mean you can just grade in the Color page without worrying about input and output colour space conversions I think. Using Davinci Colour Management is - I think - designed to avoid you having to do input and output CSTs in the Colour page - it manages that for you.

I'm just getting started using DaVinci for grading - and have found these YouTube channels incredibly helpful :

All three say roughly the same thing in different ways - one may explain it in a way that is better for you than others. Some people prefer the control they get through doing their own colour management using CSTs in the Colour page, others prefer letting Resolve do it.

The important thing to separate in your head is what you do in the colour page for creative grading vs what you can (but don't need to if you use colour management) do in the colour page for conversion from camera colour space and conversion to display colour space.

(The other thing is to remember that you're going to be far better off letting Resolve do the initial conversion from camera colour space to your grading and/or display colour space than trying to do that manually by eye in the colour page.)

If you are using Davinci YRGB Colour Managed, then if the input media has been correctly recognised (from its file name and/or metadata), OR you've manually told Resolve what colour space the media is in (groups can be useful for this I believe), then Resolve will automatically replicate what an input CST is doing in the Colour page, so no need to add one.

Similarly it will also do what an output CST would do to get you to Rec 709 - so no need to do that either.

This should mean you can just grade in the Color page without worrying about input and output colour space conversions I think. Using Davinci Colour Management is - I think - designed to avoid you having to do input and output CSTs in the Colour page - it manages that for you.

I'm just getting started using DaVinci for grading - and have found these YouTube channels incredibly helpful :

All three say roughly the same thing in different ways - one may explain it in a way that is better for you than others. Some people prefer the control they get through doing their own colour management using CSTs in the Colour page, others prefer letting Resolve do it.

The important thing to separate in your head is what you do in the colour page for creative grading vs what you can (but don't need to if you use colour management) do in the colour page for conversion from camera colour space and conversion to display colour space.

(The other thing is to remember that you're going to be far better off letting Resolve do the initial conversion from camera colour space to your grading and/or display colour space than trying to do that manually by eye in the colour page.)

Nice, this was exactly what I was looking for, I will look on tutorials also but thank you

I have small problem, when I set everything in Project settings are needed (C-log3, Davinci WG output as Rec.709).

This also "colors" my fusion composition - I have some images, some text and "background video"

On timeline I have only Fusion Comp as "video", there is no actually movie file under it

Is there a way to tell it not to use this color space transform in Fusion Composition?

Thank you.

I have small problem, when I set everything in Project settings are needed (C-log3, Davinci WG output as Rec.709).

This also "colors" my fusion composition - I have some images, some text and "background video"

On timeline I have only Fusion Comp as "video", there is no actually movie file under it

Is there a way to tell it not to use this color space transform in Fusion Composition?

Thank you.

Found it here: Fusion Color Skip on BM Forum
Right Click and Bypass Color Management on Fusion Comp Clip in Color Page

Little strange solution, and even stranger from point it ignores whole grade no matter "source" (either timeline or color page), would be nice to have option or right click at edit page or even node in fusion - ignore timeline color space or something like this (just idea)

Hmm it "somewhat" fixed problem of Fusion Clip been colored but now I get flickering when I render my whole video, and flickering happens only on fusion clip itself no idea why, if ByPass Color Management would cause this?

Thank you.

Haven't watched it - but this may be useful :

Cullen Kelly's YouTube channel is always a good reference for colour stuff.

Cullen uses CSTs rather than DaVinici Colour Management usually.

Hmm it "somewhat" fixed problem of Fusion Clip been colored but now I get flickering when I render my whole video, and flickering happens only on fusion clip itself no idea why, if ByPass Color Management would cause this?

Thank you.

When you say 'flickering' - you aren't using interlace anywhere are you?

Hmm it "somewhat" fixed problem of Fusion Clip been colored but now I get flickering when I render my whole video, and flickering happens only on fusion clip itself no idea why, if ByPass Color Management would cause this?

Thank you.

When you say 'flickering' - you aren't using interlace anywhere are you?

For a footage, no. In Fusion? I don't think either (if there is not any node for it). On media in I have Optical flow > Time Speed node can this cause it?

Thank you

Hmm it "somewhat" fixed problem of Fusion Clip been colored but now I get flickering when I render my whole video, and flickering happens only on fusion clip itself no idea why, if ByPass Color Management would cause this?

Thank you.

When you say 'flickering' - you aren't using interlace anywhere are you?

For a footage, no. In Fusion? I don't think either (if there is not any node for it). On media in I have Optical flow > Time Speed node can this cause it?

Thank you

I'm trying to work out what you mean by 'flickering' - rapid luminance or colour changes that pulse, motion judder etc.?

Also might be useful if you explain your full workflow from camera source to output destination, and also what you are doing within the Fusion app (or the Fusion page in Resolve if that's what you are doing).

I'm trying to work out what you mean by 'flickering' - rapid luminance or colour changes that pulse, motion judder etc.?

Also might be useful if you explain your full workflow from camera source to output destination, and also what you are doing within the Fusion app (or the Fusion page in Resolve if that's what you are doing).

Here a begging first few frames are good and then it starts to flicker (especially noticable on sky)

Here is Fusion COMP: basically just images on top of each other + video on blend with merge node

fusion_comp.jpg (120.13 KiB) Viewed 1461 times

Source footage is C-Log3 from R6 Mark II and it is converted to DNxHR HQ (as it is not as hard on CPU).

Project Color management:

prj_color_man.jpg (108.06 KiB) Viewed 1461 times

On Fusion comp I set Bypass Color Management on Color Page.

Strange is - it was not Flickering before, so something changed but I have no idea what (if something).

Even more strangely, when I go for only ColorPage way of color grade (leaving Project Color management at default settings - Davinci YRGB and Rec.709).

No flickering is present when I render that specific clip.

Maybe some issue with in project color management? Or maybe color Bypass Color Management option?

Even more strangely, when I go for only ColorPage way of color grade (leaving Project Color management at default settings - Davinci YRGB and Rec.709).

No flickering is present when I render that specific clip.

Maybe some issue with in project color management? Or maybe color Bypass Color Management option?

If you're bypassing colour management for that comp - what input and output CSTs are you using and where to replace the colour management conversion to your comping/grading colour space?

I'm trying to work out what you mean by 'flickering' - rapid luminance or colour changes that pulse, motion judder etc.?

Also might be useful if you explain your full workflow from camera source to output destination, and also what you are doing within the Fusion app (or the Fusion page in Resolve if that's what you are doing).

Here a begging first few frames are good and then it starts to flicker (especially noticable on sky)

Here is Fusion COMP: basically just images on top of each other + video on blend with merge node

fusion_comp.jpg

Source footage is C-Log3 from R6 Mark II and it is converted to DNxHR HQ (as it is not as hard on CPU).

Project Color management:

prj_color_man.jpg

On Fusion comp I set Bypass Color Management on Color Page.

Strange is - it was not Flickering before, so something changed but I have no idea what (if something).

There it is, in Project Color management in there - not addition color transform is used neither in Fusion nor Color Page. Only on Fusion Clip (that first 15sec or so) is in Color Page - ByPass Color Management (as it was also coloring my composotion to "correct" C-log footage which for most part is not present or that small preview is but all other are just images on top of each other

In case of Color Space Transform in Color page - Canon CinemaGammut > C-log3 to Rec.709 and Rec.709 or Rec.709A (just brightness diff, nothing else).

Thank you

Are all the images nd graphics you are compositing together in Canon C-Log 3? It looks like you also have some imported graphics? I don't think it's recommended to composite in camera colour space usually.

If you are compositing sources from different colour spaces together (or want to see what you are doing) - you'll need to have CSTs in your Fusion nodes to take them all to a common (usually linear?) space to do the compositing, and then CST back to your target colour space at the other end?

Are all the images nd graphics you are compositing together in Canon C-Log 3? It looks like you also have some imported graphics?

If you are compositing sources from different colour spaces together - you'll need to have CSTs in your Fusion nodes to take them all to a common (usually linear?) space to do the compositing, and then CST back to your target colour space at the other end?

Imported images are not in C-log3, they are plain (probably sRGB? images from Stock)

I tried what you mention - CST to plain but I was not able to find any suitable "conversation" as when I inserted for input C-log 3 and Cinema Gammut to (no matter selection) Rec.709 or sRGB, it just did not worked out, colors where all over the place... What should I choose then in Fusion CST to "zero out" grade from Timeline on my imported images.

Thank you.

Are all the images nd graphics you are compositing together in Canon C-Log 3? It looks like you also have some imported graphics?

If you are compositing sources from different colour spaces together - you'll need to have CSTs in your Fusion nodes to take them all to a common (usually linear?) space to do the compositing, and then CST back to your target colour space at the other end?

Imported images are not in C-log3, they are plain (probably sRGB? images from Stock)

I tried what you mention - CST to plain but I was not able to find any suitable "conversation" as when I inserted for input C-log 3 and Cinema Gammut to (no matter selection) Rec.709 or sRGB, it just did not worked out, colors where all over the place... What should I choose then in Fusion CST to "zero out" grade from Timeline on my imported images.

Thank you.

Have you watched the video I posted here : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=209202#p1086223

(Though I think Cullen runs without any Davinci assisted colour management and does everything with CSTs)

It explains it far better than I could.

What I think you need to end up with in Fusion is CSTs for your input colour space to linear (which is your compositing space), and then an output CST to whatever space you are using for your timeline (Davinci Wide Intermediate etc.) which will be the space you grade in - then your colour grade will work like other stuff on your timeline? You will then have a final output CST (or Resolve will do it for you if you're colour managed) to do the conversion from your timeline colour space to Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 etc.

Conceptually it's important to separate 'creative look' grading processes from 'scientific colour space conversion' grading processes.

CSTs are the second sort - they get you to the right starting point for you to then add creative stuff on top.

Are all the images nd graphics you are compositing together in Canon C-Log 3? It looks like you also have some imported graphics?

If you are compositing sources from different colour spaces together - you'll need to have CSTs in your Fusion nodes to take them all to a common (usually linear?) space to do the compositing, and then CST back to your target colour space at the other end?

Imported images are not in C-log3, they are plain (probably sRGB? images from Stock)

I tried what you mention - CST to plain but I was not able to find any suitable "conversation" as when I inserted for input C-log 3 and Cinema Gammut to (no matter selection) Rec.709 or sRGB, it just did not worked out, colors where all over the place... What should I choose then in Fusion CST to "zero out" grade from Timeline on my imported images.

Thank you.

Have you watched the video I posted here : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=209202#p1086223

(Though I think Cullen runs without any Davinci assisted colour management and does everything with CSTs)

It explains it far better than I could.

What I think you need to end up with in Fusion is CSTs for your input colour space to linear (which is your compositing space), and then an output CST to whatever space you are using for your timeline (Davinci Wide Intermediate etc.) which will be the space you grade in - then your colour grade will work like other stuff on your timeline? You will then have a final output CST (or Resolve will do it for you if you're colour managed) to do the conversion from your timeline colour space to Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 etc.

Conceptually it's important to separate 'creative look' grading processes from 'scientific colour space conversion' grading processes.

CSTs are the second sort - they get you to the right starting point for you to then add creative stuff on top.

I have watched it, one thing is what he actually say - there is no right way or exact solution to each "specific" transform unfortunately, it is more about "finding" and searching proper way.

And yes this just gives "base" line, other creative feel/look has to made separately

I have watched it, one thing is what he actually say - there is no right way or exact solution to each "specific" transform unfortunately, it is more about "finding" and searching proper way.

That's specifically for the imported graphic content though - not for camera content.

The issue with imported graphics is that you don't always know whether they are sRGB, Rec 709 video etc. (Those two are very similar apart from gamma ISTR)

I have watched it, one thing is what he actually say - there is no right way or exact solution to each "specific" transform unfortunately, it is more about "finding" and searching proper way.

That's specifically for the imported graphic content though - not for camera content.

The issue with imported graphics is that you don't always know whether they are sRGB, Rec 709 video etc. (Those two are very similar apart from gamma ISTR)

True true