How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

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Chris Detjen

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How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostMon Oct 25, 2021 4:50 pm

Looking for recommendations on hardware upgrades to enable monitoring of 4k HDR video on a new Samsung QN900A. Currently I can get a 4k image to the TV, but not the HDR metadata. I figure I am missing some key hardware. So, looking for some advice on what to buy. I see potential devices mentioned in the manual: Decklink 8K, DeckLink 4k Extreme 12G and UltraStudio 4k Extreme. But not sure if any additional gear is required to marry the HDR metadata into the HDMI signal.

One issue is that my current motherboard is limited to a single available PCIe slot (I am running two GPUs and that configuration limits my available PCIe slots). The 4k Extreme cards (double-decker build w/daughter card on it) would not fit in my system (but could fit with daughter card removed). Perhaps, the external Ultrastudio 4k would work?

Anyway, I am unsure what is recommended for a solid setup for HDR monitoring.

Current setup is:
    PC workstation running Resolve Studio 17.4
    Decklink 4k Pro
    Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G

The Decklink 4k Pro sends video to the external Teranex via single SDI. The Teranex sends video to the HDMI TV and SDI to Flanders BM210.

So, that is my current setup. Now just trying to determine what is needed to pipe 4K HDR out of Resolve to the new HDR TV via HDMI.

I see in the manual it says "If you have a DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G or UltraStudio 4k extreme, then you can output the metadata necessary to correctly display HDR video signals to displays using HDMI 2.0a when you turn on Enable HDR metadata over HDMI in the Master Settings."
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostTue Oct 26, 2021 11:15 am

Possible simple solution.
Your converter has 2.0a HDMI port, so it's good enough bandwidth wise. It's just not sending HDR metadata to the TV. If your TV has option which enables HDR mode (real HDR mode not some fake HDR effect) then you can just manually put TV into HDR and all done. Panasonic/Sony TVs should have this option. LG/Samsung not necessarily if I'm correct (at least it use to be this way). In such a case there is a fairly simple solution.
You add this:
https://hdfury.com/product/dr-hdmi-4k/
Insert it between converter and HDR TV and you should get HDR preview. Resolve needs to be set as HDR project (don't worry about ticking send HDR metadata over HDMI, as you adding it by yourself). Doctor box needs to follow Resolve project setting, so both need to be set to eg. PQ or HLG depending one your need.

Otherwise.
You need one of the compatible cards (one which can send HDR over HDMI with required metadata).
Cheapest one is: Mini Monitor 4K (up to 30p UHD) and then you have DeckLink 4K Extreme which is top model with HDMI output. Be careful with other cards as many are based on older HDMI chips and don't support HDR.
On TB3 side you also have options with UltraStudio 4K Mini been very capable (but also relatively expensive).
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Chris Detjen

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostTue Oct 26, 2021 11:26 pm

Very helpful! I purchased an HD Fury 4k and eager to see if that helps. And, looking into the other offerings from BMD for potentially upgrading how video is routed in this edit suite.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostWed Oct 27, 2021 9:53 am

HD Fury 4K Integral 2 legacy model? If it allows to inject HDR metadata then it's also fine.
HDMI Doctor 4 is the cheapest current option.
HD Fury X4 is not good as it's just HD box.
Just make sure it follows Resolve HDR project type: PQ or HLG.
Just in case force Rec.2020 matrix in monitoring settings.
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Chris Detjen

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 4:15 pm

I bought the Dr. HDMI 4k as well as the Dr HDMI 8k.

I figured one of those models would help. Eager for them to arrive to see if it helps
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 4:18 pm

You could just buy 8K one.
Same functionality as 4K and more with new HDMI 2.1 chip.
Flagging and HDR trigger will work.
There is one possible issue. Your 4K PRO card doesn't support SDI Rec.2020 YUV, so the best if you could do monitoring over RGB.
What fps are you typically work on? Cann you maintain 444 over whole chain ?
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Chris Detjen

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 5:41 pm

That is good info to know about the 4K Pro Decklink. I now see in the Desktop Video manual that newer cards have options to convert to Rec. 2020. My card is old. I can get picture to the TV when I have selected "Video is converted to RGB 4:4:4."

I will email support for some suggestions on new I/O device. I could get the 8k Pro card or the 4k Extreme card. Both say the have full Rec 2020 support. My company wants to create HDR content, so I'm diving into it. My current decklink card is not suited for it.

If I get the 8k Pro card, then I'd need a box to convert from SDI to HDMI for the HDR TV. Wondering if a new Decklink card + a Smart Videohub would be a better way to go. So, we could send 4k to the TV and HD to my Flanders Scientific.

Opening a can of worms, but I do need better set up for routing video.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 6:14 pm

8K is newer model but more SDI oriented, so needs extra HDMI converted. Here I would rather use more solid AJA one.
Your current setup may work absolutely fine, so no point of rushing any purchases.
HDFury has boxes which can create from UHD HDR, pass it through and also create on 2nd output HD SDR. I quite like their solutions. Very powerful and well priced. I think they are quite reliable as well.

If I were to do new setup I would consider NDI solutions. Crazy flexible and all what you need is local 10g network which is cheap these days. Plenty free apps/plugins and also paid ones are affordable.
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Chris Detjen

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 6:26 pm

Thanks again for the expert help. I am eager to get the 8K Fury box to see if that solves the current issues. And you bring up a good point that in some areas AJA has a more solid product for a PC workstation. The KONA 5 product page looks like it's got what I would need in a PCIe card.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 6:39 pm

AJA cards and drivers are quite solid, but no go for Resolve.
BM is also fine. No point overdoing things.
As I said - I would probably go NDI route. Their signals are good enough quality for typical monitoring. Once you send signal to network it’s ‘there’ and any tool can link to it. Crazy flexible and powerful. You have cheap tools to read BM signal and present as NDI (and opposite). You can even easily present any camera as NDI signal.
Most NLE now allow to native monitoring over NDI, so your work in NLE can be viewed by anyone in your local network ( or even streamed to the web). In some cases you can edit on live NDI incoming signal. This is 21 century. SDI is good, but getting bit outdated and limited.
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Chris Detjen

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 7:32 pm

You're blowing my mind. NDI is new to me, but on the surface looks very cool. Man, more to research! But, that does seem like a good way to go, maybe makes routing video to different monitors easier.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: How to connect to HDR capable displays using HDMI

PostThu Oct 28, 2021 8:29 pm

I will give you simple example, but with Premiere as Resolve has no native NDI output (yet).

You have an office made of few rooms with local 1gig (preferably 10gig network).

You download free Premiere plugin and start some editing project. You enable NDI output and carry on working as normal, except that your full quality video (around ProRes standard mode quality, 100Mbit for HD 30p )+audio+TC feed is now "send" to your local network at cost of about meaningless few % CPU hit. There is also a camera in your room shooting you doing your work. To keep costs down it's your iPhone pointing at you. We take this signal (at tiny cost for the app) and also present it as NDI feed. It's also now in your network.

What can you do with those feeds?
First your boss can download simple monitoring app on his iPad (there is NDI app for IOS) and with single click get preview of iPhone camera, to monitor your work :lol: This is to show you that NDI is not only about monitoring high quality main feeds, but also can work with Skype, laptop cameras, phones etc.

In other room we can take your feed+ camera feed, composite it with some graphics (at no cost) and change it into streaming link (there may be small cost to this feature) which your junior editors who seat at home watch in order to learn from you.

Just to show that it also works with old school approach in next room your feed is taken by one of the NDI standalone boxes (eg 300$) and converted into HDMI signal, which you record with BM recorder (don't ask what for :D ).

Different scenario.
You have 4 x 4K cameras studio shoot of something which needs to be edited as quickly as possible. You buy (2K$) 4 channels SDI to NDI standalone box and hook your cameras (it means connect 4x SDI cables+ network cable) and have all of them in your network as NDI signal.
On your editing machine you record your NDI signals (there are cheap tools to record eg. 16 cameras at once synced) in native format (so no CPU hit, as it's just copy). You can edit while recording is happening as multicam project, so when show is done you have a lot of editing finished as well.
Possibilities are endless. As long as you are happy with ProRes alike quality then you are sorted. In some cases quality can be manually controlled, in others it's fixed to standard NDI values.
Atm. there is no HDR support in terms of natively signalled HDR streams, but you can send HDR signals as they are just 10bit video (you just have to manually flag them as HDR, with eg. tools like HD Fury boxes).

Old way with SDI feeds, SDI cards, recorders, many hard disks, etc. is so inefficient.

With NDI you key point is to create NDI signal and later receive it. It all happens mainly in software (free or mostly at very affordable price) or with NDI hardware boxes, which cost from 300$ to 2K$ for multichannel 4K ones. There are also enterprise solution based on NDI (eg. TriCaster boxes for productions).
Cool bit about NDI is that it's basically PnP, so not much knowledge is needed at all (you may want to have good network though). It all works at button click (well, typically).

With SDI and router you can achieve the same, but limitations are much bigger. With NDI you can have unlimited number (limited by bandwidth of your network) signals running between your rooms. Also receiving them is easy, where with SDI every receive point= card (we have multi input cards, but those are also more expensive). Each card runs on drivers, prone to OS changes etc. You quickly get the point. Video is nothing more than a data and today we can send data so easily over networks, so this is what NDI is about.

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