Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

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mpetech

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Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostWed Oct 27, 2021 3:47 pm

4K DCI? HDR? 120 fps?

Need 6 immediately. :D
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Uli Plank

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostSun Oct 31, 2021 7:08 am

I doubt it's going to happen. Software is getting faster and more flexible.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
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Annaël Beauchemin

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostSun Oct 31, 2021 6:57 pm

Uli Plank wrote:I doubt it's going to happen. Software is getting faster and more flexible.


Which software? I only know Alchemist and Tachyon, which are pretty much hardware/turnkey solution. And very expensive.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostSun Oct 31, 2021 9:04 pm

I doubt that's BM's target market. Or, maybe, if they get close to bankruptcy and BM can buy them for cheap.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.4.2 , macOS 12.0.1
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mpetech

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostWed Nov 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Uli Plank wrote:I doubt it's going to happen. Software is getting faster and more flexible.


Need it downstream and not out of the breakout box.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostWed Nov 03, 2021 6:45 pm

Teranex is no match to Alchemist or Tachyon.
Teranex is not really a proper standards conversion box which delivers broadcast acceptable results. It has no motion adaptive engine, which means fps conversion is not good at all.
You can today run Alchemist as SaS, so you pay per minute and no need to own any hardware ( you need decent bandwidth though).
You can also run it on quite simple box- eg old 1080Ti with 8 cores CPU and speed will be real-time 2x faster than realtime for HD ( for 50i to 60i).

Any properly paid project will cover Alchemist costs.
If you need cheap solution then avisynth/vapoursynth can blow Teranex by miles and at 0 cost. You need special knowledge though. At the end nothing good is free :D
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Annaël Beauchemin

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 7:17 pm

I feel like I'm hijacking the thread, so sorry in advance.

I miss the Terranex because it could reverse pulldown material with broken cadence and it was pretty good at that. I am searching for a software that could do it as easily and errors free, but can't find any.

I tried Vapoursynth (VIVTC) for that, but it sometimes leave combed frames and it seems like it slips the whole video by 1 frame.

But for motion compensated conversions, I can't find anything as good as Tachyon/Alchemist. I tried a script called FrameRateConverter, but the results are not up to the high end competition. The price of Pixelstrings (Tachyon) is actually pretty fair, but uploading lots of small files (for archives assets conversion) or long form masters in PR4444 is a bit cumbersome and expensive. So I'm still looking for an "on premise" solution that cost less than 20K.

How much is Alchemist File nowadays? Last time I checked it was 100K+, which doesn't reapay itself that easily.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostThu Nov 04, 2021 8:38 pm

Alchemist is 10K$ which gives you processing up to realtime. If you want faster processing you have to pay more. I think you can process up to 6x faster than realtime assuming your GPU(s) are fast enough. Old 1080Ti is enough to get about 2x faster than realtime HD processing for 50i<->60i conversion.

FrameRateConverter should not be bad. I compared it to old Alchemist hardware box and quite often it was better. You just have to of course deinterlace your signal to double fps first which is very important step in whole fps conversion process (this is why Alchemist has very good deinterlacer as well).
Software version of Alchemist is better than old hardware box though (one of the reason is that hardware box had to work in realtime and quite often had to give-up eg. on motion vector search to avoid too long processing time).
You can try it:
https://www.grassvalley.com/products/me ... ist-file/#
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mpetech

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 4:23 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Teranex is no match to Alchemist or Tachyon.
Teranex is not really a proper standards conversion box which delivers broadcast acceptable results. It has no motion adaptive engine, which means fps conversion is not good at all.
You can today run Alchemist as SaS, so you pay per minute and no need to own any hardware ( you need decent bandwidth though).
You can also run it on quite simple box- eg old 1080Ti with 8 cores CPU and speed will be real-time for HD ( if I remember well).

Any properly paid project will cover Alchemist costs.
If you need cheap solution then avisynth/vapoursynth can blow Teranex by miles and at 0 cost. You need special knowledge though. At the end nothing good is free :D


It is not for mastering though. It is a swiss army box you can use for a simple updown/down/cross for viewing purposes, audio delay, remapping audio, etc. Again, it is for live RT downstream feed.
It is not the same thing as Alchemist SaS product.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 5:44 pm

Well, definitely not the same :)
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Annaël Beauchemin

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 6:52 pm

It is not for mastering though. It is a swiss army box you can use for a simple updown/down/cross for viewing purposes, audio delay, remapping audio, etc. Again, it is for live RT downstream feed.
It is not the same thing as Alchemist SaS product.


Is it for the edit room or the machine room?

If it's for the edit room, I was thinking of ditching all the gazillions of converters needed for our 5.1 online edit room and use an AVR receiver instead. Of course, that means HDMI.

But a 2K$ Denon AVR X3770H gets you:

- 3x HDMI output with upscale/downscale from SD up to 8K and HDR/12 bit compatibility
- Discreet analog outputs and speakers connectors
- Many HDMI inputs
- Adjustable audio delay
- Audio downmix (but no manual audio routing)
- Web interface to change, save and load settings via the LAN/WLAN

Checkout the manual to get an idea of the functions:
https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3700H/NA/ ... ukzrll.php

I personally haven't tried it yet.
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Annaël Beauchemin

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 7:05 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Alchemist is 10K$ which gives you processing up to realtime


Where did you get that price? I can't see it online. If there isn't any hidden yearly support fees, that would be a good price.

The trial link is down at the moment, it seems.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 7:14 pm

I've noticed it.
All was there and working not long time ago. Price was 10K$ per each realtime speed. There was free trial as well, which would just add logo, but had all functionality.
GV websites are typically a mess.
Try asking them.
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mpetech

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 8:27 pm

Annaël Beauchemin wrote:
It is not for mastering though. It is a swiss army box you can use for a simple updown/down/cross for viewing purposes, audio delay, remapping audio, etc. Again, it is for live RT downstream feed.
It is not the same thing as Alchemist SaS product.


Is it for the edit room or the machine room?

If it's for the edit room, I was thinking of ditching all the gazillions of converters needed for our 5.1 online edit room and use an AVR receiver instead. Of course, that means HDMI.

But a 2K$ Denon AVR X3770H gets you:

- 3x HDMI output with upscale/downscale from SD up to 8K and HDR/12 bit compatibility
- Discreet analog outputs and speakers connectors
- Many HDMI inputs
- Adjustable audio delay
- Audio downmix (but no manual audio routing)
- Web interface to change, save and load settings via the LAN/WLAN

Checkout the manual to get an idea of the functions:
https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3700H/NA/ ... ukzrll.php

I personally haven't tried it yet.


Edit room. Though it does not remove all small converters/adapters, it does remove significantly a lot including audio delay, up/down/cross converter and audio mapping. For example, if you want to see the 1080p stereo version of a 4K 5.1, our editor can quickly press a button and show the client with adjusted sync.

Just annoying there is no 4K DCI support. We are considering moving to the AJA box.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 8:49 pm

FS-HDR is nice box (specially when you deal with HDR), but quite pricy.
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mpetech

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 9:46 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:FS-HDR is nice box (specially when you deal with HDR), but quite pricy.


It is. The price is not what is causing my hesitation. It is the tactile interface (buttons and simple screen) and the web GUI. It seems an engineer designed it for another engineer.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Any plans for a new Teranex Standards Conversion

PostFri Nov 05, 2021 9:59 pm

I'm sure you can handle it :)
I can also see AJA is going NDI direction.
Not sure why BM is not having any device/software NDI ready.

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