Color Charts for Resolve 11

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
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waltervolpatto

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Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jun 25, 2014 3:51 pm

syncfilms wrote:Hello,

I tested using thew X rite colour checker passport filling the majority of the screen form the Blackmagic cinema camera.

When I choose the X rite preset colour match from Resolve, I click match and all I get it a black and white grainy image after the adjustement has been made?

On the Reosolve 11 demo video posted a while ago, they had a square grid in Reoslve which you aligned onto the chart video clip itself then done a match. I cant see this so presume that feature was taken out?


Either the feature is not in the beta yet or it is in the paid version only (perhaps)
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jun 25, 2014 3:59 pm

My charts came in today, so if no one beats me too it, I'll test when I get home.

Wish I had seen that info about the DSC OneShot. That's not the one I bought. But whatever, at least I got the XRite. And the DSC I got will give me good non-automated results.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jun 25, 2014 5:02 pm

Gerhard Riesenhuber wrote:they had a square grid in Reoslve
sic

I can't see how the feature could work without it, as the target values have to be tightly defined. Clicking anywhere in a scene for some kind of auto-align whether it is framed like a ground glass or a chart being waved around on a set would be a flying fk at a rolling deep-fried ellipsoid.

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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jun 25, 2014 5:29 pm

The grid can be accessed from the viewer tool popup. I happened to have some footage including a Datacolor SpyderChecker lying around; the feature appears to work. In the case of the clip I'm testing on it desaturates skin tones in a rather undesirable way, but that may indeed be a more accurate rendering than the way the clip came in (was an overcast day).

Two feature requests so far:

- Why can't I change the white balance and other settings this tool is targeting without scrubbing back to the frame the chart was sampled from and hitting 'Match' again? Seems to me once it has the chart sampled, I should be able to change all of these settings without it reading the chart every time.

- The viewer tool selection should automatically switch to the Color Match tool when I switch to the Color Match tab, the same way it automatically switches to the Power Window tool when switching to the Power Window tab, etc.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jun 25, 2014 5:37 pm

Thanks Chris I will check that out to get the op out menu for the grid selection. I am using the full version of Resolve.

Thanks,

Leo
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 1:51 am

Hi Chris, thanks of your feedback.

The Color Match process is quite complex and relies on numerous settings to calculate the best match. We have tuned this quite a few times since NAB and to date the current operation provides the best results.

We also discussed auto display of the grid on the UI but in the end I felt that the 'Adjustments' section of this tab will be used a lot more than the chart, it could be every take where as the chart could be just every setup, and as a user I would not like the grid to popup every time the tab was selected to tune the 'Adjustments'. Especially as these can be used in any node for any source clip type.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 2:05 am

You need to select a cursor type to be chart. Left bottom of the color viewer.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 4:10 am

My preliminary test tonight was quite successful. I shot both an xrite chart and the cam align chart from DSC. I took the footage into light works and brought the DSC chart into alignment as best I could and the applied that to the xrite. It was decent. Then I did the same in Avid and got closer. After installing Resolve 11 I auto balanced on the xrite and took that over to the DSC chart and it was nearly perfect.

I guess the trick now is going to be deciding which chart to use or when to use both. I think what I may do is to use the DSC chart to build match profiles for all my cameras. This should get them fairly similar in look. The shoot the xrite chart before each scene so that colors can be balanced.

And yes, I know the warnings that this wont make the cameras match perfectly and all that. For my purposes this will save me HOURS in post since I will be tweaking instead of correcting gross swings of color differences.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 5:21 am

Hi, details in the manual. You need to select the grid and place it so the auto calibration knows which parts of the image are the defined colors.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 11:38 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Hi, details in the manual. You need to select the grid and place it so the auto calibration knows which parts of the image are the defined colors.


Peter, thanks for reading this thread. I discovered the above by reading the manual yesterday, and therefore got past that first hurdle.

Where I am a bit more stuck is trying to figure out how to get my matches closer to the card. I have a pair of RED DRAGON cameras (one has the old OLPF, one has the new OLPF) and I tried matching them with the X-rite chart. Set initially to their defaults (DRAGONcolor, RG4), both had very similar deviations from the X-rite card, which is not a surprise, since except for the OLPF and slight difference in camera position and physical lenses from the same manufacturer, they are the same. But several of the colors in the color chart (most notably the "normal" green, 2nd row from the bottom, second chip from the left) is rendered far less saturated than the red and the blue after the match function.

Resolve starts with a default of Rec 709 for everything, so I figured I could get a better match by using some gamma that RED and BMD could both agree on. I switched by RAW gamma to Linear and Resolve's Source Gamma to Linear, but that didn't give me the expected result. Do you (or anybody) have a step-by-step to getting a really good match from a RED DRAGON source?

My ulterior objective is to use this feature to find the best baseline within my GH4 to match against my DRAGONs. But I can get predictable and great results from the DRAGONs, I don't want to mess around with the variables contained within (and constrained by) my GH4.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 11:54 am

I don't have any dragon chart shots. If you would like to share a few very small ones, with different configs, I can take a look next week. I will need to know the color space, etc etc.

Send me a private mail and we can connect to share.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jun 26, 2014 12:09 pm

Peter, I'd love to send you a private message, but the little avatar that I would normally click on to send a message to mortal users is missing from your profile. Here's my test setup (three short clips and a DRP): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jqczyzxpo0u1 ... 85_glrQ_ea
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jun 30, 2014 2:40 am

leob wrote:Hello,

I tested using thew X rite colour checker passport filling the majority of the screen form the Blackmagic cinema camera.

When I choose the X rite preset colour match from Resolve, I click match and all I get it a black and white grainy image after the adjustement has been made?

On the Reosolve 11 demo video posted a while ago, they had a square grid in Reoslve which you aligned onto the chart video clip itself then done a match. I cant see this so presume that feature was taken out?


You have not positioned the patch grid correctly. Please select 'Color Chart' from the little drop down menu below the viewer that allows for the selection of 'Qualifier', 'Image Wipe', etc.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jun 30, 2014 6:15 am

So you do not get the chart outline window?

For me it is there.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jun 30, 2014 7:36 am

leob wrote:On the Reosolve 11 demo video posted a while ago, they had a square grid in Reoslve which you aligned onto the chart video clip itself then done a match. I cant see this so presume that feature was taken out?

Page 498 of the v11 manual:

Click the Viewer tool pop-up, choose the Color Chart overlay, and use its corner-pinning controls to line the sampling boxes up with the color patches of the chart.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jun 30, 2014 9:56 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:As listed in the manual, we currently support three charts.
1. X-Rite ColorChecker
2. Datacolor SpyderCheckr
3. DSC labs SMPTE OneShot

Other charts will not provide the correct data for a color match. We will review additional chart options later.


The classic X-rite/Macbeth color checker references L*A*B values for CIE XYZ space for each of its patches. Very useful for base profiling raw format cameras at standard reference color temps under neutral lighting. If the corrected image L*A*B values closely match the chart reference table, then color and gray scale vectors should track well with changes in hue and value in the scene or in the grade so you don't get odd results. Not so sure if it is helpful as a color balance tool for non-neutral white lighting conditions as that could throw off the color vector alignments.
Adobe's ACR profiling tool for instance won't allow you to pull a chart calibration profile if the lighting is far off of black body color temp standards or if any color channels are clipped in the camera exposure.

For cameras shooting REC.709 compliant HD video the DSC Oneshot should be used instead as it gives proper YUV vector scope alignments.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jul 02, 2014 10:57 am

Michael Tiemann wrote:Peter, I'd love to send you a private message, but the little avatar that I would normally click on to send a message to mortal users is missing from your profile. Here's my test setup (three short clips and a DRP): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jqczyzxpo0u1 ... 85_glrQ_ea


Peter, did you get this? You can send me an email address via PM and I can respond from there. Thanks.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jul 02, 2014 12:40 pm

Peter's avatar has appeared again.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jul 02, 2014 1:18 pm

If someone needs some Colorchecker Passport footage to test out and play with,
I have a sample package (2 GB) for you to download from my blog:

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... dpress.com

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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jul 02, 2014 8:30 pm

leob wrote:Hello,

I tested using thew X rite colour checker passport filling the majority of the screen form the Blackmagic cinema camera.

When I choose the X rite preset colour match from Resolve, I click match and all I get it a black and white grainy image after the adjustement has been made?

On the Reosolve 11 demo video posted a while ago, they had a square grid in Reoslve which you aligned onto the chart video clip itself then done a match. I cant see this so presume that feature was taken out?


I don't have my colour checker passport here to double check, but does it use the same pattern as the standard colour chart by X-rite? It's also pretty small. How are you filling the frame with it? Macro lens?

In Resolve are you selecting the write chart from the available charts?
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostWed Jul 02, 2014 8:32 pm

I don't think you need it to be in focus, you can just hold it in front of the lens even if it's not in focus to fill the frame... you definitely need it to pick up the lighting on subject so this may not be best advice I just gave... need to hold it with your subject
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jul 03, 2014 5:01 am

quantumrider wrote:I don't think you need it to be in focus, you can just hold it in front of the lens even if it's not in focus to fill the frame... you definitely need it to pick up the lighting on subject so this may not be best advice I just gave... need to hold it with your subject

I believe the chart should be in focus for best results, because this is going to change the luminance values and the borders between squares.

Note that you also have to be mindful of mixed lighting, color temperature issues, uneven lighting, and any gels being used. I have occasionally run into cooperative DPs who would pull the gels for dailies and give us straight grayscale charts, then put the gels back in for the actual show and send us camera notes (anybody remember camera notes?) not to take out the color wash.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jul 03, 2014 12:26 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
quantumrider wrote:I don't think you need it to be in focus, you can just hold it in front of the lens even if it's not in focus to fill the frame... you definitely need it to pick up the lighting on subject so this may not be best advice I just gave... need to hold it with your subject

I believe the chart should be in focus for best results, because this is going to change the luminance values and the borders between squares.


Mark, have you actually used this feature of Davinci Resolve? If you have, you would know that the template is tuned to look only at the center swatches of the squares. If your lens is so incredibly out of focus that the frames are blended into the actual sampling area of the template, then your colors are also bleeding all over each other, which should throw a red flag to even the dimmest of camera operators that something is wrong.

But there is absolutely no reason to sweat the focus beyond "I can see 16 squares and the frame lines between them". And yes, if you don't hold the chart in the subject's location subject to the subject's lighting, you are measuring the wrong thing. Garbage in, garbage out.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jul 03, 2014 12:58 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
quantumrider wrote:I don't think you need it to be in focus, you can just hold it in front of the lens even if it's not in focus to fill the frame... you definitely need it to pick up the lighting on subject so this may not be best advice I just gave... need to hold it with your subject

I believe the chart should be in focus for best results, because this is going to change the luminance values and the borders between squares.

Note that you also have to be mindful of mixed lighting, color temperature issues, uneven lighting, and any gels being used. I have occasionally run into cooperative DPs who would pull the gels for dailies and give us straight grayscale charts, then put the gels back in for the actual show and send us camera notes (anybody remember camera notes?) not to take out the color wash.


Bingo. Chart test to neutral white light of whatever color temp as much as possible, let the gels contribute what is intended. Lights that have strong spikes in their spectrum, like some fluorescents can throw things out of whack.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jul 03, 2014 4:07 pm

Razz16mm wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:[...]

Note that you also have to be mindful of mixed lighting, color temperature issues, uneven lighting, and any gels being used. I have occasionally run into cooperative DPs who would pull the gels for dailies and give us straight grayscale charts, then put the gels back in for the actual show and send us camera notes (anybody remember camera notes?) not to take out the color wash.


Bingo. Chart test to neutral white light of whatever color temp as much as possible, let the gels contribute what is intended. Lights that have strong spikes in their spectrum, like some fluorescents can throw things out of whack.


Indeed. I have ETC SourceFour LED lights, and I suspect that their spectra is tricking Resolve something fierce. My attempts to match the color checker using EPIC Dragon have seen the colors shift *away* from the reference points, rather than toward them.
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostSun Jul 06, 2014 7:35 pm

Resolves OneShot chart match is terrible. Its not even close to accurate.

Hand Match
Image

Resolve Match
Image
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jul 07, 2014 2:32 am

Hi Greg, my results with the OneShot Pocket seem better that this.

Can you post me a link to the original camera file and let me know which camera this was shot on?

thanks
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jan 29, 2015 6:40 pm

The functionality is better now but not perfect and they do not deal well with matching contrast. It would be cool to set ire targets for the white/gray/black
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostThu Jan 29, 2015 7:34 pm

greggreenhaw wrote:Its not even close to accurate.


tonally, the hand match and Resolve match do seem to line up reasonably well, at least in the screen captures. Grey scale looks pretty good, even looking at the scopes. Where it seems to fall off, and correct me if I am wrong, is in saturation. Your hand match seems to indicate that you have deliberately landed the patches corresponding to color bar analogs to exactly in the 2% targets. We never expected this kind of performance from emulsion TAF charts; Kodak told us to forget it. Out of curiousity it would be good to hear whether lining up printed test charts to SMPTE bars is recommended manufacturer procedure.

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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostSun Jan 23, 2022 1:36 am

I have both the DSC one shot which has only 3 primary and 3 secondary color patches (also flesh tones and grey) and Macbeth charts which also have an additional 12 color patches . Will I get more reliable color matching if Resolve uses the Macbeth vs the One shot since there are more " in-between colors?" Does resolve even use all the colors on the macbeth chart? How does Resolve do that matching?

A related question: Would you use the auto color chart balancing in a workflow using Aces or CST?
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Re: Color Charts for Resolve 11

PostMon Jan 24, 2022 3:19 pm

You have replied to a 7 year old thread about a 6 revision old version.

So maybe not the best route to get a response...

But regardless, The automatic color checker is broken in V17.

Watch this guide for the manual method starting at minute 5. Maybe it will work for your exact chart


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