Help! Choosing a computer

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nunexf

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Help! Choosing a computer

PostTue Apr 26, 2022 1:24 pm

Hi guys

I would really like your suggestions about the options i´m considering.
I started looking for a computer with at least i9 or 5x AMDs, 32GB of RAM, 4GB GPU, in case of laptop, with NVMe Storage. I read somewhere these are important specs.

But I don´t want to spend more than 2000 Eur.
I am not sure if I should go for a desktop, a laptop, and if I should go for a Mac or not.

I am not a pro with Davinci resolve but I would like to start using it more and more.
And I would prefer a laptop because sometimes I travel and it would be good to be able to work when abroad.

The M1 Mac laptop is attractive to me but the specs seem to be inferior. However I understand that Mac specs can be lower and still work well?

I can find desktops for about 1500 Eur., laptops Omen between 1.5 and 2K, M1 laptop for about 1.9K and iMac for more or less the same.

I want to make sure Davinci Resolve works flawlessly.

Many thanks for your inputs.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostThu Apr 28, 2022 1:54 am

To tell you if any computer (within specs) will run flawlessly we'll need to know your typical source footage, including codec and frame-rate.
And then, also tell us if you'll work in HD or UHD and if your footage is often too dark.

Generally, laptops will cost a premium if you want anything at the same level as a desktops. There are some PC laptops close to 2K €, like the Asus ProArt, which are comparable to a more expensive Apple M1 like the MacBook Pro M1 Pro. But then, M1 Macs decode and encode all modern codecs in hardware, while AMD and Nvidia still don't handle H.265 10 bit smoothly. So, you see, the devil is in the detail.

If you already have a good screen, keyboard and mouse, the base model of the Mac Ultra Studio is an interesting alternative for 2K. The current iMac is an entry-level M1 and I wouldn't recommend it for DR.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Apr 29, 2022 12:25 am

Hi Nuno,

I'll just comment on Macs because it's what I know about.

Taking into account your budget, it would be very helpful to know whether you already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse to use with a desktop such as the new Mac Studio/Max, or whether you would have to buy those components.

The new MacBooks are not inferior. Some versions of the 14" and 16" MacBooks have the same M1 Max chip that's in the Mac Studio/Max. Others have the M1 Pro chip, which is itself very capable. Part of the price of a MacBook is due to the inclusion of a Retina display, keyboard and trackpad. From a cost perspective, whether that's good depends on whether or not you already have those components.

As Uli says, it would also be helpful to know more about what kinds of videos you want to make and what kind of footage you plan to shoot and edit. In some cases, an M1 Mac mini would work out just fine and save a lot of money.

If you have any particular questions about the Mac Studio, I used the base Studio/Max for two weeks and I have an upgraded Studio/Max on order.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Apr 29, 2022 12:42 am

Seconded. And even if you need portability, but not necessarily working on the road, a Mini or a Studio might be worth your consideration.
Two decent UHD monitors for separate locations wouldn’t cost more than Apple’s overpriced Studio display.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Apr 29, 2022 11:38 am

Hi Uli

Thanks.
I do have a monitor I currently use as an external monitor for my windows laptop. It´s nothing fancy: LG 27UL550

About the work I do currently: usually I need to localize videos for social media. The windows laptop I have is a low i7. Can´t even handle these small videos. Hangs a lot. I have attached the codec info of one of such videos.
But , like I said, I want to start creating my own videos as I progress so it would be good to have a computer that can do more.

Uli Plank wrote:To tell you if any computer (within specs) will run flawlessly we'll need to know your typical source footage, including codec and frame-rate.
And then, also tell us if you'll work in HD or UHD and if your footage is often too dark.

Generally, laptops will cost a premium if you want anything at the same level as a desktops. There are some PC laptops close to 2K €, like the Asus ProArt, which are comparable to a more expensive Apple M1 like the MacBook Pro M1 Pro. But then, M1 Macs decode and encode all modern codecs in hardware, while AMD and Nvidia still don't handle H.265 10 bit smoothly. So, you see, the devil is in the detail.

If you already have a good screen, keyboard and mouse, the base model of the Mac Ultra Studio is an interesting alternative for 2K. The current iMac is an entry-level M1 and I wouldn't recommend it for DR.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Apr 29, 2022 12:09 pm

Hi Rob

Thanks. As I wrote above, I do have a monitor I currently use as an external monitor for my windows laptop, nothing fancy: LG 27UL550

About the work I do currently: usually I need to localize videos for social media. The windows laptop I have is a low i7. Can´t even handle these small videos. Hangs a lot. I have attached the specs of one of such videos.
But , like I said, I want to start creating my own videos as I progress so it would be good to be able to have a computer that can do more than work these small videos for social media.

I think I am going for a Mac. From what I could read it handles DR better than a Windows pc.
But from what I can see the budget is not enough for more than a M1 Pro cpu. The macbookpro with the M1 max cpu costs much more than 2000 Eur.


robedge wrote:Hi Nuno,

I'll just comment on Macs because it's what I know about.

Taking into account your budget, it would be very helpful to know whether you already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse to use with a desktop such as the new Mac Studio/Max, or whether you would have to buy those components.

The new MacBooks are not inferior. Some versions of the 14" and 16" MacBooks have the same M1 Max chip that's in the Mac Studio/Max. Others have the M1 Pro chip, which is itself very capable. Part of the price of a MacBook is due to the inclusion of a Retina display, keyboard and trackpad. From a cost perspective, whether that's good depends on whether or not you already have those components.

As Uli says, it would also be helpful to know more about what kinds of videos you want to make and what kind of footage you plan to shoot and edit. In some cases, an M1 Mac mini would work out just fine and save a lot of money.

If you have any particular questions about the Mac Studio, I used the base Studio/Max for two weeks and I have an upgraded Studio/Max on order.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Apr 29, 2022 6:35 pm

Mac options within your budget...

Mac Studio with the M1 Max chip (US$2,000)

CPU: 10 cores
GPU: 24 cores
Memory: 32GB
Storage: 512GB

I used this computer for two weeks recently. I was impressed enough that I'm having one made to order that meets my own needs. This is easily the most powerful computer of the options. I think that it makes sense if you want the power (it has quite a bit more than you need for 1080p video), you're satisfied with the colour accuracy of your LG monitor, and a Mac Studio is mobile enough for your needs (2.7kg; 9.5cm x 19.7cm x 19.7cm).

14" MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip ($2,000)

CPU: 8 cores
GPU: 14 cores
Memory: 16GB
Storage: 512GB

I would choose this over the Mac Studio if you need more mobility than the Mac Studio offers, and the 14" is one option if you're dissatisfied with the colour accuracy of the LG monitor. You could also decide that the Retina XDR display with ProMotion in itself is desirable. Based on what I've read about this laptop, and given your current requirements, I would not worry about heat and throttling.

13" MacBook Pro with the M1 chip ($1700)

CPU: 8 cores
GPU: 8 cores
Memory: 16GB
Storage: 512GB

I have no doubt that the M1 chip with 16GB of memory will meet your current needs (more on this below). Otherwise, similar considerations as the 14" MacBook Pro above, but $300 less expensive. However, note that it has a standard LCD Retina display. Also, it raises the question of how you feel about editing on a 13" laptop screen. You could split editing chores between the laptop screen and your LG monitor (also true of the 14" MacBook).

Mac mini with the M1 chip ($1100)

CPU: 8 cores
GPU: 8 cores
Memory: 16GB
Storage: 512GB

The mini has the same specs as the 13" MacBook Pro, but at a more attractive price because it doesn't include a Retina display, keyboard and trackpad. Leaves room, if needed, to purchase a new monitor, or simply to save some money.

Speaking of monitors, you should include in your budget the cost of monitor calibration hardware and software. Many people use X-Rite's i1Display Pro, but Spyder is also popular.

In your initial post, you expressed concern about the basic M1 chip used in the 13" MacBook Pro and the Mac mini. When these computers were released, the reaction was uniformly favourable. If you search this forum, you'll find a long discussion thread about them. The thread includes links to several reviews.

I'm linking Mark Spencer's video below. Spencer and Steve Martin run Ripple Training, and Spencer is probably the foremost authority on Apple Motion. Soon after these computers were released, he tested the 13" MacBook Pro with 8GB of memory. I think that 16GB of memory would have improved performance of the 13" MacBook significantly beyond what it already showed. Since Spencer made his video, both Final Cut and DaVinci Resolve have been further optimised for the M1 chips.

If you are considering the 13" MacBook or Mac mini, it's worth noting that Apple is expected to launch the M2 chip before the end of the year. It's possible that it could announce M2 updates of these computers at its annual WWDC on June 6, although I think that we're more likely to see the new Mac Pro at that event.

Mark Spencer video - if I recall, he was on vacation in Central America at the time :)

Last edited by robedge on Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 2:17 am

A Mac mini or a MacBook Air with 8 cores and 16 GB RAM would handle your current footage without a problem for a reasonable price. As Rob wrote, the small screen of the Air (I wouldn't get the 13" MBP) can be limiting, but it's a great little machine. My wife has one and is totally happy about size and battery life. Being a graphics designer, she has one larger screen at home and one at work, though.

The lowest spec MacBook Pro 16" or the base Mac Studio would be more future proof. Heck, I can process 12K on mine (but I gave it more RAM). Up to UHD, the base 16 GB should suffice.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 2:54 am

Uli Plank wrote:A Mac mini or a MacBook Air with 8 cores and 16 GB RAM would handle your current footage without a problem for a reasonable price. As Rob wrote, the small screen of the Air (I wouldn't get the 13" MBP) can be limiting, but it's a great little machine. My wife has one and is totally happy about size and battery life. Being a graphics designer, she has one larger screen at home and one at work, though.

The lowest spec MacBook Pro 16" or the base Mac Studio would be more future proof. Heck, I can process 12K on mine (but I gave it more RAM). Up to UHD, the base 16 GB should suffice.


As 13" options, I would agree that both the Air and Pro would work. It's worth comparing the features of each.

The base 16" MacBook Pro adds two CPU and two GPU cores to what the 14" has, as well as screen real estate, but also exceeds Nuno's budget by 25% (US$500).
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 3:04 am

Correct. But that's why I wrote about future proofing. The higher end 14" models are over the budget mentioned anyway and limited in temperature management and battery over the 16" models.

IMHO, the lower end 14" models and the 13" MBP don't offer that much over a MB Air with 8 cores and 16 GB RAM that they justify the price while keeping the small screen.

If you need the computer NOW and the budget doesn't allow more, get the Air. If you can wait at least until June, see what Apple will do to the entry-level range.

If you can stretch your budget, get a 16", which will probably not change this year. The screen is large enough if you have good eyesight to work on the road.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 3:23 am

If you're going to drag the 16" MacBook Pro into this discussion, budget be damned, I suggest that Nuno watch the following video :)

It's by a young UK composer, who talks about the choice between the 14" and 16" MacBooks. He chose the 14", says that others may come to a different conclusion, and does a good job on the considerations (from 10:25). I should note that he has good reasons, not shared by most people, for going with the Max chip, loading up on RAM and getting a sizeable internal drive. His work is very CPU intensive and he needs to have a lot of data onboard. The references to Spitfire are to Spitfire Audio.




During the video, he talks about a project that he was working on with UK composer and singer Gary Barlow. In case people are interested, this is the video that he made about the project:

Last edited by robedge on Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 3:54 am

Fine video, considerate and free of that stupid 'mind blowing' hype. As a side note, good voice and good recording, and no stupid music bed. Just pleasant to watch!

The needs of music producers might differ in one aspect which is dangerous for your budget: internal SSD.
While it should be possible to carry all your libraries for sound, in my experience you never have enough for video. Apple's prices for internal SSDs (while they are very fast) are 'mind blowing' ;-)

So, if budget gets too stretched, I'd suggest cheaper external SSDs for video, they are plenty fast for anything but high-end movie production. And if you are not always using an external screen, go for 16".
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 1:33 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Apple's prices for internal SSDs (while they are very fast) are 'mind blowing' ;-)


I have a fair amount of sympathy for this view, but I've ordered a Mac Studio/Max with maximum CPU (10 cores), GPU (32 cores) and memory (64GB) and 2TB of internal storage. When you cost out storage, Apple's price of US$600 for 2TB is more competitive than one might think if the external option is a 2TB M.2 MVMe SSD in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure. The Apple option is also significantly faster, less susceptible to problems and doesn't require heat management; it's just more convenient and less potential hassle, which I'm prepared to put a dollar value on. Apple storage is not cost-competitive if the alternative is a 2TB Samsung T7 (USB 3.2 Gen 2) or similar. I think that Apple storage at 4TB/8TB only makes sense if it's purchased, as was the case in the first video two posts up, for reasons other than cost.

In my case, I've decided to go with 4TB of core storage made up as follows:
  • Mac internal SSD: 2TB
I should add that my decision is based in part on the fact that I use Logic Pro X and the kinds of virtual instrument libraries discussed in the videos two posts up.

As we all know, one can also work effectively from a 512GB internal SSD and external spinning hard drives, which is significantly less expensive than the options that I've chosen.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 3:22 pm

May I ask which Thunderbolt enclosure did you choose?
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 4:32 pm

Uli Plank wrote:May I ask which Thunderbolt enclosure did you choose?


I have a TekQ Cube from Taiwan. When Thunderbolt 3 enclosures became a "thing" in 2018, TekQ's were some of the first on the market. They were novel enough that AnandTech wrote about them, which initially came with an SSD installed. The Cube was the first to come empty. It's still sold on Amazon, but in 2022 one is unlikely to see much discussion about it. Apart from Sonnet Tech and OWC, there's a lot of turnover in current designs, many of which, at least from the outside, look more or less like copies of the TekQ.

The MacRumors subforum on the Mac Studio has a current thread about Thunderbolt 3/4 enclosures with discussion about options and good info on what results people are getting. Based on posts there, I think that I'll get close to 2.7GB/s read and write on the Blackmagic Disk Speed Test when my Mac Studio arrives. It's possible to increase speed significantly by setting up two enclosures, each with its own Thunderbolt 3/4 connection, as RAID 0, but there's a point where this becomes an exercise in speed for the sake of speed, as well as expensive.*

This is the thread: Thunderbolt 4 & NVMe M.2 External Storage: Read/Write Speeds?


* The reason that one needs two SSDs connected to separate ports to set up an effective RAID 0 is that, in real world terms, a single Thunderbolt 3/4 port won't support more than about 2.7GB/s read/write. This is quite a bit less than what an M.2 NVMe SSD is capable of, but two SSDs connected to one Thunderbolt 3/4 port in RAID 0 won't accomplish much because of the port's own limits, not to mention that running two SSDs from one port requires mains power, not just bus power.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Apr 30, 2022 8:46 pm

Thanks for sharing such detailed info.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSun May 01, 2022 12:20 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Thanks for sharing such detailed info.


One thing to add...

People who decide to go with an M.2 NVMe currently have a choice between Generation 3 and Generation 4, although the former will no doubt be phased out over time. Generation 3 SSDs are less expensive and their potential read/write speed already exceeds what's possible via a Thunderbolt 3/4 port.

When I looked at the Generation 3 options, the only one that interested me was Samsung's 970 EVO Plus. This SSD is highly regarded and very popular. However, there's a firmware issue with this SSD that results in abysmal write performance for an NVMe (a bit above 1GB/s using Blackmagic's Disk Speed Test) when it's used with a Thunderbolt 3/4 port instead of a motherboard. Sonnet Tech flags this in its support documentation. See footnote #9 in its SSD compatibility PDF. I tried a new (April 2022) 2TB 970 EVO Plus with up-to-date firmware, and Sonnet Tech is right; and the problem apparently exists regardless of whether the computer is a Mac or a PC.

I decided to go with Samsung's 980 Pro. It's Generation 4 and costs more. I bought it anyway, having decided that I prefer it to other Generation 3 options. Maybe I'll have some use for its Generation 4 read/write speed down the road :)
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSun May 01, 2022 12:50 pm

Thanks, Rob. Yes, I stumbled over that info too and also decided to go with the 980 Pro.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostMon May 02, 2022 6:59 pm

Puget Systems tests lots of hardware with programs including DaVinci Resolve. Here's a link if you're not already familiar with the data they publish: [url]https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php?filter[]=DaVinci%20Resolve[/url] As a custom computer integrator their computers are unlikely to fit your relatively constrained budget; however, you should be able to get a feel for the performance you'll get from various CODECs/workflows from their publications. As always, YMMV.

Hope this helps,
/mp

nunexf wrote:Hi guys

I would really like your suggestions about the options i´m considering.
I started looking for a computer with at least i9 or 5x AMDs, 32GB of RAM, 4GB GPU, in case of laptop, with NVMe Storage. I read somewhere these are important specs.

But I don´t want to spend more than 2000 Eur.
I am not sure if I should go for a desktop, a laptop, and if I should go for a Mac or not.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostTue May 03, 2022 1:47 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Thanks, Rob. Yes, I stumbled over that info too and also decided to go with the 980 Pro.


This Blackmagic Disk Speed result is for a Samsung 980 Pro (2TB) in an Acasis enclosure, connected via Thunderbolt 3/4 to a Mac Studio computer. The image is from the following post in the thread that I linked five posts up: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/thunderbolt-4-nvme-m-2-external-storage-read-write-speeds.2340127/post-31038911

Read and write are both about 2.7GB/s.

If you've already set up your 980 Pro with an enclosure, which enclosure, and what read/write speeds are you getting for the MacBook with the M1 Pro chip in your signature? Is the MacBook 14" or 16"?


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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostWed May 04, 2022 12:57 am

I’ll get to that around Mai 15th and report back.
My MBP is 16“, I really like the larger screen.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostWed May 04, 2022 7:03 pm

The fellow who made this new video tested two RAID 0 configurations with a Studio/Max. He used USB 3.2 Gen 2 SSDs. These are screen captures from the video:

Two 1TB Samsung T7 SSDs

T7.jpg
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Two 1TB Samsung T7 SSDs ands a 1TB SanDisk Extreme SSD

T7 and SanDisk.jpg
T7 and SanDisk.jpg (88.86 KiB) Viewed 11142 times



This is the full video:

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri May 06, 2022 11:26 am

Has anyone here, using M1 chip MacBooks, encountered any issues installing Fusion Reactor ?
I have a MacBook Pro 14-inch 16GB 1 TB with the new M1 chip running Monterey 12.3.1
Da Vinci Resolve 17 runs ok, although Fusion effects are really slow
I cannot open Reactor though. It installs with no errors but not opening...
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSun May 15, 2022 1:14 pm

As promised, here are my results. I got the same enclosure and SSD. Out of curiosity: did you use both thermal pads on top of each other? BTW, connected by USB you get the same speed as any cheap T5 or T7.
Bildschirmfoto 2022-05-15 um 15.10.23.png
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No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSun May 15, 2022 9:34 pm

Uli Plank wrote:As promised, here are my results. I got the same enclosure and SSD. Out of curiosity: did you use both thermal pads on top of each other?


Thanks for this. I'm receiving a Mac Studio this Wednesday (specs in my signature) and I would think that I'll get similar results. I'll post if there's a significant difference, which as I say I don't anticipate.

There are lots of discussions on the internet about thermal pads, almost none of them based on objective tests. Some people say that sandwiching thermal pads together reduces their effectiveness. True or not, I haven't done it.

I have tried the TekQ Cube enclosure (are you using it or an Acasis?) with the Samsung 980 Pro with my 2018 Mac mini. I didn't think that heat was a particularly significant issue. It's possible that a Gen 4 SSD like the 980 draws less power than a Gen 3 SSD at ~2.7GBs and therefore runs cooler.

I've also played with removing the enclosure top, exposing the SSD to air, and laying the enclosure on an aluminium block that I have (upside down because the bottom is where most of the heat is). I'll stop playing and make an actual decision about heat management when the Mac Studio arrives :)
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat May 21, 2022 1:40 am

Uli Plank wrote:As promised, here are my results.


Hi Uli,

More on this now that I've had the Mac Studio for a couple of days.

As I expected, my read and write speeds with the Blackmagic Disk Speed test are similar to what you're getting with your MacBook Pro. However, you might be interested in the results of a practical test that I did.

One of my main reasons for buying the Mac Studio is to use it with Logic Pro X and virtual instrument libraries. I think that Spitfire Audio's BBC Symphony Orchestra Library, Full Version is a good candidate to test transfer speeds between my internal drive and the Samsung 980 Pro. The library is 638GB and has 22,000 files, for an average of 29MB per file. Challenging.

I might note that the Mac Studio internal drive is far faster than the drive on my 2018 Mac mini, which as I understand it is also true of the drive in your MacBook Pro.

Both my internal drive and the Samsung drive are 2TB, and both had a good amount of data on them when I did the test. I didn't take any special measures to absorb heat from the aluminium TekQ Cube enclosure and Samsung drive. I did have the enclosure lying on a piece of aluminium, which no doubt absorbed some heat. However, my sense is that the Samsung drive isn't generating an unreasonable amount of heat to begin with.

Copying the library from the Samsung drive to my internal drive took 4min 21sec, which is a rate of 2.44GB/sec.

Copying the library from my internal drive to the Samsung drive was slower. It took 6min 15sec., which is 1.70GB/sec.

I did this test twice with similar results both times. I plan to do some research on why the second test was slower, but I'm not complaining. Taking into account the nature of the test, which I think was quite challenging, I don't think that I have a practical need for faster speeds. I know that I can probably increase these speeds quite a lot, or at least those from the second test, by setting up two enclosures, two SSDs and two Thunderbolt 4/3 ports as RAID 0, but my current view is that I'd be spending money to chase speed for the sake of speed.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat May 21, 2022 7:04 am

I second that about chasing speed for speed's sake. In my tests, when I set up a bootable system on either drive, I got the following numbers: internal boot in 13 seconds, from the Acasis/Samsung 980 in 18 seconds and the Samsung T7 in 27 seconds. But how often do you reboot a Mac these days? ;-)

I tested opening a project of 1.5 hours with around 1,800 clips in Resolve, and it took around 11 seconds on all three. So, for my kind of work the faster SSD doesn't mean much. But the use case of a huge sound library like yours should be interesting. Later this weekend I'll do some tests with EXR sequences.

Did you try a soft RAID?
I tried two Samsung T5 raided with OWC SoftRAID, but I got only minimal speed gains over a single one.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostThu May 26, 2022 10:59 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Did you try a soft RAID?
I tried two Samsung T5 raided with OWC SoftRAID, but I got only minimal speed gains over a single one.


I want to try this, and will when I figure out where I put my Samsung T5 drives :)

I ordered an Acacis enclosure today (see photo; same one that you have?) and an additional 2TB Samsung 980 Pro SSD.

I ordered the SSD with Samsung's heat sink, which at the moment adds only $5 to the price. As I understand it, the main reason that Samsung and others have started making complementary heat sinks is that people are using these SSDs in the Sony PlayStation 5, one of which I may acquire for reasons that have nothing to do with making videos. The PS5 has a tight-fitting compartment for an SSD, not unlike a Thunderbolt 4/3 enclosure. I want to compare using the 980 Pro and its heat sink in the Acacis enclosure with the top of the enclosure both on and removed.

I plan to use the two 980 Pro SSDs as separate drives. However, when the enclosure and SSD arrive I'll be able to post RAID 0 numbers using the Acasis enclosure and my existing TekQ Cube enclosure. Acacis ships from China and says 9-12 days for delivery to the east coast of the U.S. Cart checkout was a bit unusual. I was asked whether I want to give a tip to the people who work at Acasis. I haven't seen that before, and wonder whether it's unique to Acasis or a common practice in China.

Cheers


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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri May 27, 2022 7:09 am

That's a bit uncommon. I ordered mine through Amazon for 130 € and it arrived next day.

If the TO is still watching:
The Asus ProArt is sitting right next to my Mac now. It's a bit bigger and has a larger screen. The colors are nice, but not calibrated. The screen is more reflective than Apple's, but both are unusable with highlight areas behind you.
Cooling is pretty good, you can hear it under full load, but it's far from the 'vacuum cleaner' sound some gaming laptops emit. It handles about everything I can throw at my M1 too, with one exception: no hardware decoding for 8K HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 out of the Canon R5. Such footage is very slow and needs transcoding, while the Mac can handle it.
And then, the Asus is running 1 hour 20 under full load on battery, while the Mac goes 5 hours 16. It remains nearly silent. At least, the Asus is not throttling on battery. If you want to stay on Windows, it's a pretty good choice, but both are well over 2K in price.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri May 27, 2022 11:56 am

Uli Plank wrote:I ordered mine [Acasis enclosure] through Amazon for 130 € and it arrived next day.


Hi Uli,

It turns out that Acasis is filling U.S. orders from stock already in the U.S. and is using the US Postal Service for delivery. Ordering from Acasis directly was US$18 less expensive than ordering via Amazon U.S.

I'll have the additional Samsung SSD and the Acasis enclosure in a few days and will post RAID 0 read and write when they arrive.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri May 27, 2022 12:29 pm

Thanks. I'll report more about my test of the Asus. Generally, it looks quite good for a Windows laptop.
But I already experienced seven crashes while there was only one with the Mac. To be fair, I'm testing both under DR 18, and I'd generally expect more problems with a beta under Windows.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat May 28, 2022 4:45 pm

Hey all

So, updating this:
First I was going to buy a gaming pc laptop
Then after reading your replies decided for a macbook pro M1.
But then I was told to buy the 16 inches screen M1 pro. Already over the budget.
Also, I was told my the guy that repairs my computers that a laptop might not be the best and suggested a desktop Mac. New are very expensive. So I found online a second-hand Mac company that sells with warranty. There are iMacs 27 for about 1.5K and also these Mac Xeon from 2012 with crazy powerful graphic cards and lots of RAM (between 32 to 64).
To make things even more complex, the Apple shop recommended the Mini or the Mini Studio.
So...lots of options.

If I new that a gaming laptop would handle Davinci well, I would go for me. Why? Cheaper than a Mac and more versatile for me. And mobile.
But if a Macbook Pro M1 Pro is the power machine everyone says it is...then it becomes my first choice.
Now...taking the budget also in consideration: if you tell me that a Mac 27 i7 or a Mac XEON are much more powerful beasts than the Macbook....and considering I can find then used for 1.5K....I might go for one of these.

So:
Are the desktop iMac 27 and the Mac XEON a good option? Cheaper, more powerful, used but with warranty.
Or the Macbook Pro M1 Pro 16in is already a good beast, new, mobile, the best option?
Or is a powerful gaming laptop already a good machine?

Needless to say I gretatly appreciate all your feedback. Decision time.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat May 28, 2022 5:34 pm

OK, I'm currently testing that Asus ProArt PC laptop with an Nvidia 3070 laptop GPU and I'm deeply disappointed.
Yes, when it's working, it's about as fast as my M1 Pro Mac laptop. But with the original driver it was crashing again and again. I made a clean install of the most recent Nvidia Studio driver (version 512.96) and it's better now. But it still stalls on renders without any enlightening error message, just sitting there stalled. I'm still trying to get any UHD render completed. Only if I restrict renders to HD in DNxHR, it get's through.

I have to admit that I'm doing a tough test with different RAW sources, all larger than 4K, and some of the most demanding functions in DR. But the Mac (see below) simply works. It is about twice as fast as my old workhorse, an Intel iMac 17" with the Radeon 580 (8 GB VRAM).

If you want to go for that, it's a nice machine with an excellent screen and very stable. You can still live with that if you don't have tight deadlines.

I would not go for a XEON if your camera(s) are recording any GOP codec, since those don't have the dedicated hardware for de- and encoding.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat May 28, 2022 7:05 pm

nunexf wrote:But if a Macbook Pro M1 Pro is the power machine everyone says it is...then it becomes my first choice.


Well it is the machine that everyone says it is :)

I suggest that you purchase either a MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip or a Mac Studio with the M1 Max chip. To my mind, the choice depends on how much you want to stay within your original budget and whether you need/want a laptop display to edit video and for other purposes. The related pros and cons have been discussed earlier in the thread.

I think that you should go to an Apple Store or dealer and look at the MacBook Pros in person. You'll find out that the displays are extremely good, and you'll be able to assess whether the 14" or 16" is better for your needs. One important thing to consider is whether you think that a 14" screen is large enough to edit your videos on. On 14" vs 16", the first video in post #11 is worth watching if you haven't already seen it.

I would also suggest that you wait until at least June 6th, when Apple's World Wide Developer Conference starts, to make a purchase. There are rumours that Apple will release an M2 computer during the Conference. I'll be surprised if that happens, but it's only nine days from now, not long to wait.

If you have any questions about the Mac Studio, I had the base M1 Max version for two weeks, and I've now had the built-to-order one in my signature for a little over a week.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostTue May 31, 2022 1:15 am

Uli Plank wrote:
Did you try a soft RAID?
I tried two Samsung T5 raided with OWC SoftRAID, but I got only minimal speed gains over a single one.


I'll be able to post read/write speeds for two Samsung T7 SSDs in RAID 0 this weekend. It will be interesting to see whether the T7s perform better than the T5s. I'll probably try a couple of T5s as well, just to confirm what you found.

I plan to post RAID 0 read/write speeds for two Samsung 2TB 980 Pro SSDs the day after tomorrow.

I'll use MacOS Disk Utility to set up the RAIDs.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 9:54 pm

I now have both a TEKQ Cube enclosure and the newer Acasis enclosure. In the photo below, the TEKQ is on the left and the Acasis is on the right.

As can be seen, the Acasis is larger because it's wider and a bit longer. It's also a bit deeper. It isn't obvious to me that the extra space in the Acasis enclosure has a function. I'm also skeptical that the additional surface area makes a significant difference to temperature.

The two enclosures are held together differently. The TEKQ uses small screws. The Acasis is "toolless". It's held together by friction. It also uses a small rubber piece (Acasis includes a spare) to fasten the end of the SSD to the enclosure. I didn't have the small rubber piece in place for this photo.

I'm not crazy about the absence of screws, but the Acasis will probably work OK if I don't open and close the enclosure frequently. I probably won't return the Acasis, but if I had this to do over again I would have purchased a second TEKQ.

I should receive an additional Samsung 980 Pro SSD tomorrow, at which point I'll test RAID 0 read and write speeds, connecting the enclosures to different Thunderbolt 4/3 ports on my Mac Studio. I'll set up the RAID with MacOS Disk Utility.

I ordered the additional 980 Pro with Samsung's heat sink option. Samsung has been asking a fair amount for the heat sink, but at current prices it only added US$5. As mentioned in a previous post, I believe that Samsung and its competitors are now offering a heat sink due to demand for these SSDs arising from the Sony PlayStation 5. It will be interesting to see how the heat sink works out with these enclosures.


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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 5:13 am

Well, the Samsung in the Acasis is definitely getting hotter than a T5 or T7. But for my tests over the last two weeks I’ve been using it as an alternative boot drive and it worked flawlessly.
You can definitely work in DR without one, it’s only necessary for uncompressed RAW or maybe massive multicam, which I didn’t test.
If the TO is still reading here (sorry for the derail): get a Mac. It was 100% reliable with DR beta 18. I can’t say the same about the Asus laptop, which also costs well above 2K. If full independence is not a must, the base Mac Studio should be even faster than my laptop.

P.S. I'm trough with testing, it will be published in "Digital Production" (in German).
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 7:46 pm

Here is what Blackmagic Disk Speed says about the RAID 0 setup discussed two posts above. Samsung sent me the additional 980 Pro without the heat sink. I'll sort that out with them, but I can't comment at the moment on the suitability of the heat sink for these enclosures.

As Uli and I have both found, as have others, a single Thunderbolt 4/3 port limits read and write speed of a single NVMe M.2 SSD to somewhat below 2.8GB/s. These RAID 0 speeds using two ports and two 980 Pro SSDs are impressive, although for me this kind of speed on an external drive has limited practical application.

It's perhaps worth noting that Samsung says that the 980 Pro, as a Gen. 4 SSD, is capable of up to 5100MB/s sequential writes and 7000MB/s sequential reads when used on a motherboard.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 8:44 pm

On a Mac, setting up the RAID 0 is very simple. In MacOS Monterey, Disk Utility > File > RAID Assistant... brings up the window shown in the first screen capture below.

The second screen capture shows the result, the two Samsung 980 Pro SSDs in RAID 0. The RAID is deleted by triggering the "Delete RAID..." dialogue (lower right, outlined in green).

Note that setting up the RAID will cause the deletion of any data that is on the disks.


Screenshot 2022-06-02 at 16.33.04 (1).jpeg
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 12:51 am

On both cost and practical usage levels, I think that RAID 0 is potentially more interesting with Samsung T5s or T7s. Uli says above that he tried RAID 0 with two T5s, but there wasn't enough of an increase in speed to make it attractive. I have a T7 and I expect to receive a second one tomorrow. I'll try RAID 0 with them and post results if the increase in speed appears to be worthwhile.

While I'm impressed with the results above from two Samsung 980 Pros in RAID 0, I don't really have a need for that much speed in external drives.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 6:42 am

BTW, the Asus ProArt I tested had an internal RAID of two 1 TB SSDs and has shown about the same values you got externally. Nevertheless, my test project was a bit slower on it than on the Mac.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 9:50 am

Hi All,
I ask very nicely, be gentle, as I would like to ask a fairly simple question, and this thread seems the obvious place to ask the question, but before I ask the question, a bit of background..

The only reason I am asking, about to ask, is that maybe it was just missed by BMD, but I cannot find anywhere on the Resolve 18 website the minimum specs for Resolve, the public version, the free one...

I would like to buy a new laptop, and with the rate of exchange here in South Africa, any laptop is going to be stupid expensive, and they are, $2000 is almost R100 000, for that you can buy a really decent Japanese or German sedan... No joke, really it is beyond silly...

So with my plea to please be gentle, and with compassion and understanding this is the laptop I am looking at replacing my 2013 HP, that has stopped working.. I know it is basement grade, but R8000 is about as much as I can afford...Is this decent enough for editing tv news 2 or 3 video tracks, 3 audio tracks, no 4K, if there is 4K or what, it will be converted down to 1080, very basic very low end HD, at the moment we edit 720x576 on a 20 yr old Mac Pro and FCP7.....So you get the idea, very basic... I would like to know if this will handle Resolve 18...no fancy pants anything in terms of editing..


ASUS X415 Core i3 10110U 8GB RAM 1TB HDD Storage Laptop
Upgradeable to Windows 11 Home
14-inch HD Display
8GB RAM and 1 TB HDD Storage
Intel Core i3 10110U Processor
Intel HD Graphics 520
Wi-Fi 5 + Bluetooth 4.1(Dual Band)
720p HD Front-Facing Camera
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 1:06 pm

No chance to get a second-hand Mac that's a bit newer than yours?
That PC laptop is severely underpowered and in my experience, DR is more stable on a Mac when at the lower end of hardware than most PCs.
And does it really need to be a laptop? You'd pay a premium for anything decent.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 1:22 pm

I don't believe Resolve 18 will even recognize that intel HD 520. An earlier version might, be that's also doubtful. It would be ill-advised in any case (system isn't up to the challenge), but you'd want to confirm on the Resolve forum, staff might reply, which generation intel GPUs will work.

If that's the only choice for a machine, look into Edius or even a free NLE like Shotcut. The former is used for a lot of broadcast work outside the U.S., it's great editing software, and it makes lesser demands on hardware than Resolve. Even there, however, I'd want to see it running first or hear from people on similar equipment.
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 1:26 pm

Yeah, not sure why the Resolve specs are not publish big as life, would help..
As I explained, the laptop does not have to be the best, just barely there, mostly as new is stupid expensive..

2nd hand is buying someone's problems they grew tired of, be it cars, tv's or pc's in my experience, I have to buy what I can afford, and it needs to be functional, not brilliant.. What would be a suitable spec for a Win10/11 laptop? I need something to edit on the road, nothing fancy..
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 1:40 pm

For basic cuts editing, minimal color correction, the occasional dissolve and title, 3-4 tracks of audio, you'd want (at a minimum) a higher-end i5 processor (preferably i7), 16GBs and a GPU which scored at least 5000 or 6000 here:

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

This is already *way* below current recommendations, but it should work for basic HD editing. I'm not current on AMD laptop hardware (or for Mac!), can't advise you there.

However, in your case, I think I'd look to less demanding editing software. Resolve's "Color" makes demands on the system which the typical NLE, which fudges playback all the time (people just don't notice), won't. Especially for on the road....
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 3:43 pm

Lightworks is another not so demanding NLE.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 3:48 pm

Hi All,
well I am sure those apps may or may not be great, that is not quite what I am looking for, from doing further price look ups, it seems that I need to really spend what I don't have.. It would help greatly if BMD published tech specs for Resolve..

Apple does, ok, granted 8GB for Final Cut Pro [2022] is very optimistic... 64GB would be more believable.. So an i7 or i9 NOT celery.]/celeron.... 16GB of RAM? To go from 4GB to 8GB is really not a huge cost difference, but from 8GB to 16GB is more than twice the price.. From 8999 to 18999 or more in Rands here in South Africa..
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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 3:55 pm

Is there no computer where you can add RAM by yourself?
While DR can run on a Mac M1 under 8 GB, I'd recommend 16 for a PC. And then, only if Fusion is not on your map.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Help! Choosing a computer

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 4:01 pm

Yeah, Apple had those once, my 1st mac, the 2nd gen macbook pro, with the drop out battery, and the RAM under the hood, you could change RAM so easy, add, take away....Most modern 2022 laptops, nope, not really, or if you can, quite expensive to upgrade...

Maybe BMD could consider a Resolve lite, or Resolve Cut... that has limited features, but also does not require 64GB of RAM, if you need more than 5 Vid and 5 Audio, then Resolve Cut is not for you... I would pay $49.99 for this lite version... Just to have the codecs, the features of the Cut page, a lightweight color enhancer, basic tracking, I mean what more do you need for tv news? I don't need fancy text, or at most a simple tracker for object blur, faces, number plates, that sort of thing...

I asked about suitable laptops, so something i7, i9, not sure AMD, so will stick to the i's....
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