Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Jerome Heiderscheidt

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostFri Jun 03, 2022 3:46 pm

Hello all,


I have a problem delivering MXF Op1a files to a broadcaster. The TV channel uses BATON software to check the files. The files pass all tests fine (video levels, audio levels, timecode, etc.) however Baton flags the file as rejected because of conformance errors.

Actually, several broadcasters use Baton around here. I've delivered to some of them many times, sometimes getting these conformance errors. However after discussing with the broadcaster's technicians we had come to the conclusion that they had no idea what these errors were and they'd passed my files in the end.

However, this particular broadcaster is adamant about wanting files without conformance errors. So I asked them what these errors actually were, had to wait for 4 days for an in house "expert" to reply and they basically gave no info (I think they themselves don't know what it is - and this the biggest French TV network). They just said that other suppliers are using Resolve to deliver, without errors. How helpful that is.

Here is what the Baton report says about these errors :

------------------
Conformance : Failed
4276 : 19 Error(s)
4287 : 19 Error(s)
Invalid KLV key found. This error was found 9 times more in the stream.
Invalid Partition Pack found. This error was found 9 times more in the stream.
-------------------

Anyone encountered this problem and know any solution ?
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 8:30 pm

Those are MXF structure related errors.
MXF has many “profiles” and those use specific values inside MXF spec. Resolve generates one of those profiles which doesn’t align perfectly with broadcaster spec.
There is no solution. BM would need to look into it.
You would need to export with other tool which has a preset for needed profile.
You may be also able to re-wrap files with BBC MXF open source tools.

If they finally passed those files then it’s fine. Most important is fact if their system loads and plays them fine. Using QC tools without fully understanding them is as bad, but many places do it as they don’t want to investigate particular cases. They reject and let you worry about it. In one way it makes sense, but in other can be annoying as sometimes their rules are simply technically wrong or overdone.

If they say that others deliver without issues and also use Resolve then this is strange as those errors are outside of user control. Maybe it’s related to Resolve version (can be even Mac vs. PC version).
Offline

Jerome Heiderscheidt

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostSat Jun 04, 2022 8:54 pm

Hello Andrew,


Thank you very much for your reply. You summed up exactly my thoughts about this : "Using QC tools without fully understanding them is as bad, but many places do it as they don’t want to investigate particular cases. They reject and let you worry about it. " I find it crazy that the biggest TV station in France does this, and that the in-house "expert" can't explain what the errors are.

In this particular case I'm left with the problem because although some other tv stations accepted my files, this tv station won't pass the files. And yes I agree with you, it's strange that they said others delivered using Resolve without issues ... I'll just have to try again using other encoding tools. The worst is that I have to deliver to know whether it passes or not, it's not like I can check beforehand...
Online

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 14631
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostSun Jun 05, 2022 8:20 am

Try the plug-in by MainConcept. They have been catering to the broadcast market for years and might be better at meeting every detail of the specs.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 17.4.6 , MacOS 12.3.1
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 1:05 pm

Yes, if you deliver to broadcast MainConcept plugin may be worthy investment.
Offline

mpetech

  • Posts: 399
  • Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:52 pm
  • Real Name: Dom Silverio

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 6:59 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
If they finally passed those files then it’s fine. Most important is fact if their system loads and plays them fine. Using QC tools without fully understanding them is as bad, but many places do it as they don’t want to investigate particular cases.


Or they don't actually understand the technical aspect of their job.

Welcome to QC hell.
Offline

Jerome Heiderscheidt

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 8:33 pm

Thanks for your replies !

The Mainconcept plugin sounds like a good plan, but unfortunately it only mentions AS-11, and my broadcaster wants an AS-10 compliant file. They want an AMWA AS10 MXF file following shim “High_HD_2014”. (details here : https://static.amwa.tv/as-10-mxf-for-pr ... n-spec.pdf ).
Online

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 14631
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 8:53 pm

I'd contact MainConcept.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 17.4.6 , MacOS 12.3.1
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 8:57 pm

And your issue comes from the fact they want this exact profile.
Resolve outputs only 'generic' one.
Not much you can do about it except using 3rd party tool for actual encode.
MainConcept current plugin may have it, but not sure (ask them).
AME has this profile.
Offline

Reynaud Venter

  • Posts: 3274
  • Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostTue Jun 07, 2022 5:05 am

For AS-10 PAD Telestream Vantage and Marquise MIST encode to spec.
⟦ Mac Pro 7,1 Rack ⊕ 16-core 3.2GHz ⊕ 32GB RAM ⊕ Radeon 580X • Resolve Studio 18 • macOS 12.5 ⟧
⟦ Fairlight Console (AE/CC/2FP) • Fairlight Audio Accelerator • Intensity Pro 4K ⊕ Desktop Video 12.4 ⟧
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostTue Jun 07, 2022 9:26 am

Yes, but these are enterprise tools which cost good $. For single man/small company they are way too expensive.
Adobe Media Encoder is probably cheapest option or you can even buy MainConcept TotalCode which is not crazy money.
Vantage also runs on MainConcept for anything MPEG2 related.
Offline

Jerome Heiderscheidt

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostTue Jun 07, 2022 10:30 am

I contacted mainconcept and asked about AS-10, will post their reply here. In th meantime I checked adobe media encoder and it has an AS-10 preset with all shims including High_HD_2014, so I can use that. But I cross my fingers that the mainconcept plugin will do it. It's well worth spending 99$ to save the hassle of exporting from Resolve and then to adobe media encoder.
Online

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 14631
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostTue Jun 07, 2022 10:43 am

i'd make a test of that setting in Media Encoder to get it checked by BATON and see if it's really compliant.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 17.4.6 , MacOS 12.3.1
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostTue Jun 07, 2022 11:51 am

You have no guarantee, but it should work. AME is also Mainconcept based.
Offline

Jerome Heiderscheidt

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 12:12 pm

Hello all,


I almost forgot to post this update :

My files, exported as prores HQ from Resolve and encoded with Adobe Media encoder using its AS-10 (Canal shim) preset were accepted by the broadcaster.

I also got a reply from Mainconcept : their plugin doesn't do AS-10 format export and it's not currently on the plugin's road map. AS-10 export "might" be scheduled later...
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 8433
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Conformance errors with BATON on broadcast delivery

PostMon Jun 27, 2022 11:32 am

Ok, good to know.

Return to DaVinci Resolve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], EditorJACK, Google [Bot], nbzgtfiop324, Uli Plank and 94 guests