ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

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silvio bonomi

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ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostTue Dec 17, 2019 11:22 am

Hi
a simple question. ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K ( on mac platform) work with DaVinci e FCPX in a HDR project ? Is able to monitor correctly an 4K 2100 HDR signal on an 4K HDR monitor with his HDMI output ??

many thanks

silvio bonomi
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostTue Dec 17, 2019 5:36 pm

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PhotoJoseph

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Dec 19, 2019 6:35 pm

What HDR monitor are you using (or planning to use)? I'm trying to determine what the most affordable HDR monitoring solution is. The Ultrastudio Mini 4K is a great price for HDR monitoring, but you still need a monitor! I'd imagine plugging it into an Atomos that's HDR capable would work, but what about a larger screen?
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Dec 19, 2019 7:53 pm

LG OLED C8/9 or Apple XDR or new Asus ProArt or 25K$+ reference Eizo, Sony, FSI etc.
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silvio bonomi

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Joseph Linaschke wrote:What HDR monitor are you using (or planning to use)? I'm trying to determine what the most affordable HDR monitoring solution is. The Ultrastudio Mini 4K is a great price for HDR monitoring, but you still need a monitor! I'd imagine plugging it into an Atomos that's HDR capable would work, but what about a larger screen?


This : NO COMPETION AT THIS PRICE ! And Dolby Approved !

https://www.asus.com/it/Monitors/ProArt-PA32UCX-K/
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 10:48 pm

It supports Dolby Vision, which has not much to do with any Dolby approval for grading etc.
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silvio bonomi

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 10:49 am

This is site of DOLBY (professional section...) not ASUS site...if is NOT APPROVED is DOLBY ACCEPTED

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/ ... n-hdr.html
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Yes, but it's not really related to grading directly or any professional approval.
It's there for marketing needs mainly :D
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostTue Dec 24, 2019 4:33 pm

It will work with the Resolve Studio, the free version of resolve doesn't support HDR. It will also work and BMD explicitly claim support for Avid Media Composer in the latest Desktop Video update.

As far as I can make out while Blackmagic claim that the Ultrastudio Mini 4K works with Final Cut Pro X it won't output the correct metadata over HDMI for HDR.

Having put a support request in asking about this I got a frankly rude response back. FCPX support for BMD hardware seems to be under sufferance which is somewhat useless if you need to use it in order to deal with Pro Res RAW footage.

The AJA IO 4K+ is known to work correctly with Final Cut Pro X for HDR however it's nearly 3 times the price of the Mini 4K and of course won't work with Resolve.

There doesn't seem to be any incentive to fix this state of affairs and BMD want you to use Resolve and their hardware. Apple want you to buy a Pro Display XDR which you can directly connect to a recent Mac and use as an AV output for FCPX.

Fixing it so the correct metadata is requested and output is probably a simple software fix however as long as both companies are more interested in pushing their own solutions rather than making their stuff work together we aren't going to get support and BMD won't get my money.
Last edited by pgotch on Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JonPais

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Dec 25, 2019 11:38 am

I’m using the Ultrastudio 4K Mini with Mac and Asus PA32UCX. It works fine. Will be picking up Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 8K HDR to be able to calibrate monitor.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 6:10 pm

pgotch wrote:It will work with the Resolve Studio, the free version of resolve doesn't support HDR. It will also work and BMD explicitly claim support for Avid Media Composer in the latest Desktop Video update.

As far as I can make out while Blackmagic claim that the Ultrastudio Mini 4K works with Final Cut Pro X it won't output the correct metadata over HDMI for HDR.

Having put a support request in asking about this I got a frankly rude response back. FCPX support for BMD hardware seems to be under sufferance which is somewhat useless if you need to use it in order to deal with Pro Res RAW footage.

The AJA IO 4K+ is known to work correctly with Final Cut Pro X for HDR however it's nearly 3 times the price of the Mini 4K and of course won't work with Resolve.

There doesn't seem to be any incentive to fix this state of affairs and BMD want you to use Resolve and their hardware. Apple want you to buy a Pro Display XDR which you can directly connect to a recent Mac and use as an AV output for FCPX.

Fixing it so the correct metadata is requested and output is probably a simple software fix however as long as both companies are more interested in pushing their own solutions rather than making their stuff work together we aren't going to get support and BMD won't get my money.



Cheapest fix is inserting one of the HDFury boxes into your HDMI chain. You can then flag your signal as you wish regardless of host app or even BM hardware. Just make sure your flagging reflects Resolve project settings.

It's Apple which needs to update FCPX. BM can't really do much about it. It's like asking AJA to add support for their cards into Resolve :D
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pgotch

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostMon Dec 30, 2019 5:48 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Cheapest fix is inserting one of the HDFury boxes into your HDMI chain. You can then flag your signal as you wish regardless of host app or even BM hardware. Just make sure your flagging reflects Resolve project settings.

It's Apple which needs to update FCPX. BM can't really do much about it. It's like asking AJA to add support for their cards into Resolve :D


It's not like asking AJA to support resolve. A workaround in Black Magic Desktop video could be put in with a software override to output HDR metadata regardless of what the NLE asks for.

It could also be made clear in the product materials for the Ultrastudio that Final Cut is not supported for HDR.

Finally Blackmagic are in a far better position to ask Apple to do a hopefully simple change to support their hardware than anyone else. There is no direct way to ask to ask Apple and get any kind of response where as one would hope Blackmagic could at least elicit a Yes/No response from them.
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JonPais

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 3:56 am

silvio bonomi wrote:Hi
a simple question. ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K ( on mac platform) work with DaVinci e FCPX in a HDR project ? Is able to monitor correctly an 4K 2100 HDR signal on an 4K HDR monitor with his HDMI output ??

many thanks

silvio bonomi

As I said before, I work with FCP on an iMac, connected to the UltraStudio 4K Mini and Asus PA32UCX and it flags HDR on the display. No need for HDFury to flag HDR.
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PhotoJoseph

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 12:21 pm

JonPais wrote:As I said before, I work with FCP on an iMac, connected to the UltraStudio 4K Mini and Asus PA32UCX and it flags HDR on the display. No need for HDFury to flag HDR.


It sounds like HDR monitoring is becoming more affordable… I'm looking at this UltraStudio Mini 4K myself now. Has anyone tested it with an Atomos Sumo (or even a Ninja Inferno or Ninja V)? I've seen issues in the past (notably with the mini monitor) putting BMD and Atomos hardware together. Wondering beyond the obvious "it should work fine", if anyone here has actually used the 4K Mini and an Atomos "Atom X" (HDR capable) monitor together.

cheers
-Joseph
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JonPais

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 3:03 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
JonPais wrote:As I said before, I work with FCP on an iMac, connected to the UltraStudio 4K Mini and Asus PA32UCX and it flags HDR on the display. No need for HDFury to flag HDR.


It sounds like HDR monitoring is becoming more affordable… I'm looking at this UltraStudio Mini 4K myself now. Has anyone tested it with an Atomos Sumo (or even a Ninja Inferno or Ninja V)? I've seen issues in the past (notably with the mini monitor) putting BMD and Atomos hardware together. Wondering beyond the obvious "it should work fine", if anyone here has actually used the 4K Mini and an Atomos "Atom X" (HDR capable) monitor together.

cheers
-Joseph


Hi Joseph. I no longer use the Asus.

I'm grading with an LG OLED TV now instead.

55" displays can be found for as little as $1,300. The soon to-be-released 48" OLED looks interesting too. They work with the UltraStudio Mini 4K.

I have done testing of the Shogun Inferno and it works with the much less expensive UltraStudio Mini Monitor.
Here is the proof:
https://daejeonchronicles.com/2018/03/0 ... g-monitor/

The Ninja Inferno will not work with the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, as it only works with SDI, not HDMI.

I haven't tested the Shogun Inferno with the UltraStudio Mini 4K, but if you're interested, I can give it a shot.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 4:03 pm

JonPais wrote:Hi Joseph. I no longer use the Asus.

I'm grading with an LG OLED TV now instead.

55" displays can be found for as little as $1,300. The soon to-be-released 48" OLED looks interesting too. They work with the UltraStudio Mini 4K.
Amazing…
JonPais wrote:I have done testing of the Shogun Inferno and it works with the much less expensive UltraStudio Mini Monitor.
Here is the proof:
https://daejeonchronicles.com/2018/03/0 ... g-monitor/

The Ninja Inferno will not work with the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, as it only works with SDI, not HDMI.
ohhhhh!! So it works over SDI not HDMI. Ok, I have a Mini Monitor already. And actually a Sumo is showing up today or tomorrow so I'll be able to test on there.
JonPais wrote:I haven't tested the Shogun Inferno with the UltraStudio Mini 4K, but if you're interested, I can give it a shot.
That would be interesting… I'd love to know if the Mini 4K works with Atomos screens over HDMI — that'll tell us if this will work with the Ninja V.

So if I understand correctly:
  • Using the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, you can monitor HDR but only over SDI
  • Using the UltraStudio Mini 4K, you can monitor HDR over HDMI as well as SDI
Is that correct? If not, then how are you using the LG TVs?
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 4:22 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
JonPais wrote:Hi Joseph. I no longer use the Asus.

I'm grading with an LG OLED TV now instead.

55" displays can be found for as little as $1,300. The soon to-be-released 48" OLED looks interesting too. They work with the UltraStudio Mini 4K.
Amazing…
JonPais wrote:I have done testing of the Shogun Inferno and it works with the much less expensive UltraStudio Mini Monitor.
Here is the proof:
https://daejeonchronicles.com/2018/03/0 ... g-monitor/

The Ninja Inferno will not work with the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, as it only works with SDI, not HDMI.
ohhhhh!! So it works over SDI not HDMI. Ok, I have a Mini Monitor already. And actually a Sumo is showing up today or tomorrow so I'll be able to test on there.
JonPais wrote:I haven't tested the Shogun Inferno with the UltraStudio Mini 4K, but if you're interested, I can give it a shot.
That would be interesting… I'd love to know if the Mini 4K works with Atomos screens over HDMI — that'll tell us if this will work with the Ninja V.

So if I understand correctly:
  • Using the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, you can monitor HDR but only over SDI
  • Using the UltraStudio Mini 4K, you can monitor HDR over HDMI as well as SDI
Is that correct? If not, then how are you using the LG TVs?


It's been two years since I struggled to get the Ninja Inferno to work with the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, my Mac and Final Cut Pro or DaVinci or both - I can't remember now! hehe

Here's what a product manager wrote me at the time regarding my issues:

I’d like to clarify your system, connectivity and color pipeline with you. I spent many years building production and post systems including spear heading FCP, Avid ACSR and latetly Resolve for linux/pc/mac.

From looking at you blog you are having issues with Davinci to Ninja Inferno. From my with the BMD mini monitor connected via TB and set to av out in Resolve preferences I can confirm I’m also not able to lock HDMI image but am with SDI. I tried other BMD io inc the menu monitor 4k in a TB chassis and had no issue with UHD HDMI including being able to send HDR EOTF metadata infoframes. Going back to TB out only boxes I tried the AJA T tap in both FCPX and premiere (not supported in Resolve). This again worked fine with out any issue.

The BMD mini monitor hdmi seems to be the source of the issue and the tolerance of the HDMI handshake we need to examine. I’m going to send the EDID in for to engineering for them to look at as I see lock on resolution and frame rate but no image. This could well be an issue with the signal and tolerance level. If the output is not producing a clean eye pattern we could be not locking due to not tolerating nosey signals. We main twin this high level to ensure the quality of our recordings. Other BMD and AJA hardware we have no issue with but I can only recreate this in the BMD mini monitor.

The work around for this at present is to use SDI. We will test the output of the HDMI from the Mini monitor to see the signal quality and examine the EDID sent by the devices.

[...] We will investigate the points I’ve raised to see what can be adjusted but we do not want to compromise our signal path for recording. For Resolve the most affordable 4k HDR io I have managed to create was the mini monitor 4k in a TB chassis. The card is skittle more than the mini monitor box but you have to add the TV chassis on top but with TB2 these are relatively cheap now at about $200. Comparing this setup to the ultra studio it does not have the same feature set up for s an offering between this and the mini monitor.


So it really depends which NLE and (maybe?) OS you're using. It can be confusing!

This is how I've got it configured: Mac >TB3 Mini 4K > Mini 4K HDMI > LG OLED. It will work with both Resolve and Final Cut Pro. When I was using the Asus, it was like so: Asus > HDMI Mini 4K > Mini 4K TB3 > Mac.

Mystery Box has what is probably the best information on working with the Sumo:
https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2017/12/ ... os-sumo-19

Maybe I can try the Shogun Inferno with the UltraStudio Mini 4K sometime before the weekend.

Edit: for all I know, there might have been a firmware update allowing HDMI with the Mini. hahaah
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 4:41 pm

HDMI is definitely still not working on the Mini. I can't even get it to talk nicely to any ATOMOS display at all; forget about HDR. Meanwhile it talks just fine to a cheap HDMI monitor. So that email you shared seems to reveal some interesting inside possibilities that have not been addressed.

I have a Sumo arriving today. I own a Mini Monitor so we'll see what happens. I'll keep this thread updated for sure. And really awesome to know that with a Mini 4K, you can even use cheap HDR TVs!

One more question — are you currently using the latest FCPX (10.4.8 as of this writing) on macOS Catalina? Because I'm hearing that there may have been changes from Apple on output, limiting support for other HDR monitors since they want to sell their fancy XDR display. Which would really suck if true.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 6:34 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:HDMI is definitely still not working on the Mini. I can't even get it to talk nicely to any ATOMOS display at all; forget about HDR. Meanwhile it talks just fine to a cheap HDMI monitor. So that email you shared seems to reveal some interesting inside possibilities that have not been addressed.

I have a Sumo arriving today. I own a Mini Monitor so we'll see what happens. I'll keep this thread updated for sure. And really awesome to know that with a Mini 4K, you can even use cheap HDR TVs!

One more question — are you currently using the latest FCPX (10.4.8 as of this writing) on macOS Catalina? Because I'm hearing that there may have been changes from Apple on output, limiting support for other HDR monitors since they want to sell their fancy XDR display. Which would really suck if true.


Yes, Catalina 10.15.3 and Final Cut Pro 10.4.8.

I had fun today correcting and uploading an HDR video to YouTube with downloadable sample footage shot by Philip Bloom with the Sony FX9 and S-Cinetone 4K 10-bit 4:2:2. Should never have sold my GH5, I’m stuck with Sony’s 8-bit! hehe
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 7:03 pm

Thanks — and link the video! I want to see what you did ;-)
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 2:45 am

PhotoJoseph wrote:Thanks — and link the video! I want to see what you did ;-)

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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 10:53 am

PhotoJoseph wrote:HDMI is definitely still not working on the Mini. I can't even get it to talk nicely to any ATOMOS display at all; forget about HDR. Meanwhile it talks just fine to a cheap HDMI monitor. So that email you shared seems to reveal some interesting inside possibilities that have not been addressed.

I have a Sumo arriving today. I own a Mini Monitor so we'll see what happens. I'll keep this thread updated for sure. And really awesome to know that with a Mini 4K, you can even use cheap HDR TVs!

One more question — are you currently using the latest FCPX (10.4.8 as of this writing) on macOS Catalina? Because I'm hearing that there may have been changes from Apple on output, limiting support for other HDR monitors since they want to sell their fancy XDR display. Which would really suck if true.


I can confirm that the Shogun Inferno does indeed work through HDMI with the UltraStudio Mini 4K HDR, however:

1) It is not recommended using a 7" display for grading.

2) If one were to get the Ninja V, five inches would certainly be too tiny.

3) It becomes much harder to justify spending $995.00 USD on an I/O box if you only plan to use it with a $600.00 recorder/monitor and nothing else.

4) I strongly believe that, given the low price of OLED TVs nowadays, they are a better value; and you can also enjoy watching your finished projects or share them with clients, something not possible with a 5" Atomos.

5) Atom HDR does not give an accurate representation of the project, so you'd need to purchase and load a LUT into the Atomos for grading. Those LUTs are expensive. And mysteriously, the page where Mystery Box was selling those LUTs has disappeared! hehe
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 4:41 pm

JonPais wrote:I have done testing of the Shogun Inferno and it works with the much less expensive UltraStudio Mini Monitor.
Here is the proof:
https://daejeonchronicles.com/2018/03/0 ... g-monitor/


Hey Jon — OK, the Sumo arrived, and I can NOT get an HDR image on there through the UltraStudio Mini Monitor. Would you be so kind as to review all settings with me. What I've got is…

Hardware & Software
  • 2018 Mac mini (with an eGPU) on macOS Catalina 10.15.3 and Final Cut Pro X 10.4.8
  • Mac Mini's Thunderbolt 3 port >> Apple Thunderbolt 3 to TB2 adapter >> TB2 cable >> UltraStudio Mini Monitor >> 4.5 Ghz SDI cable >> ATOMOS Sumo19
  • BlackMagic Desktop Video Setup software v.11.5

Configuration
Mini Monitor is set to 1080p29.97 10-bit:
UltraStudioSettings.png
UltraStudioSettings.png (597.85 KiB) Viewed 1194 times


FCPX Preferences set to A/V out to the Mini Monitor; "show HDR as Tone Mapped" is not available (which sounds right)

FCPX Library Settings is set to "Wide Gamut HDR" and the Library is set to Rec 2020 PQ (and I've tried the other Rec2020 settings as well):

On the Sumo19, Monitor Mode is set to Atom HDR, the camera is set to Panasonic, Gamma is V-Log and Gamut is V Gamut (also tried Rec709). If I hit the "Auto HDR" button, the SDR to HDR slider goes to max of 5120%, but moving that slider anywhere just makes it a different shade of worse. What I'm seeing on screen looks like an extremely dark or extremely clipped file, depending on where the SDR/HDR slider goes.

Here's something else that's curious… in FCPX my RGB parade goes from 0 to 10K. On the Sumo, it goes from 0 to 3200. If I brighten the image (which has full range from very dark to very bright) in FCPX so that the highlights are just under 10K, the image on the Sumo is completely blown out. If I reduce the brightness in FCPX until the RGB parade on the Sumo shows that it's in range (so just under 3200), not only is the image very dark, but in FCPX the highlights on the RGB parade are actually at 100. So it's like a Rec709 rage of 0-100 is simply being represented on the Sumo as 0-3200.

RGB-fcp-vs-Sumo.jpg
RGB-fcp-vs-Sumo.jpg (182.56 KiB) Viewed 1194 times


Clearly I'm not getting what you're getting, so I'm super interested to hear if you have different settings, and/or what I'm doing wrong!

Thanks a ton. I feel really close to getting this for the first time ever ;-)
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 4:44 pm

JonPais wrote:I can confirm that the Shogun Inferno does indeed work through HDMI with the UltraStudio Mini 4K HDR, however:


Well isn't that fascinating… I'm getting the same issues with SDI as I was with HDMI and you're getting both to work. OK, standing by for your assessment on my setup (and totally agreed on your thoughts on 7" vs 5" vs HDR-TV, etc… at this point I'm just trying to see what works)
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 6:06 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
JonPais wrote:I can confirm that the Shogun Inferno does indeed work through HDMI with the UltraStudio Mini 4K HDR, however:


Well isn't that fascinating… I'm getting the same issues with SDI as I was with HDMI and you're getting both to work. OK, standing by for your assessment on my setup (and totally agreed on your thoughts on 7" vs 5" vs HDR-TV, etc… at this point I'm just trying to see what works)


Sorry to hear that!

Well... when I said that I was able to get the Shogun Inferno to work with SDI or HDMI, I didn't mean that I was ever able to actually use it for grading video! hehe

All I meant was that I get an image on the display.

Why do you think I gave up on HDR for a solid two years? :(

Like you, I also monkeyed around with the sliders, Atom HDR, Auto HDR and the rest and the image was so bad.

I'm not sure about the scopes because I was mostly focused just on trying to get a proper image.

But since you brought it up, I decided to test the scopes, this time with the Shogun Inferno connected to the Mini 4K HDR with FCPX, and I suppose the waveform monitor looks about right - - but the picture is a disaster! lol

Production monitors aren't consistent enough from unit to unit to be relied on for any serious grading without calibration. All I can say is, you won't be able to grade using Atom HDR because the image is washed out and it requires using a custom utility LUT instead.

Atomos and some very influential people should never have promoted the idea of using their production monitors as portable grading monitors in the first place! All I can say in their defense is that they have some really wonderful people working there who did their very best to help: but in the end, I'd just thrown away hours of my life and lots and lots of money. haha
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 6:18 pm

JonPais wrote:Well... when I said that I was able to get the Shogun Inferno to work with SDI or HDMI, I didn't mean that I was ever able to actually use it for grading video! hehe


What?! ::bangs head on wall:: all this time I thought you had solved this HDR problem… I guess we were talking about two different things.

OK I’m getting a 4K Mini in here. Once that’s in place I’ll update again. That is supposed to be the affordable solution.

I’ll keep the thread updated and thanks for your assistance.
-Joseph
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 6:32 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
JonPais wrote:Well... when I said that I was able to get the Shogun Inferno to work with SDI or HDMI, I didn't mean that I was ever able to actually use it for grading video! hehe


What?! ::bangs head on wall:: all this time I thought you had solved this HDR problem… I guess we were talking about two different things.

OK I’m getting a 4K Mini in here. Once that’s in place I’ll update again. That is supposed to be the affordable solution.

I’ll keep the thread updated and thanks for your assistance.
-Joseph


Sorry if I gave that impression! Is it possible to return the Sumo?
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 6:35 pm

It’s on loan to me. I’m pretty sure it’ll work with the Mini 4K. Need to find out!
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 6:37 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:It’s on loan to me. I’m pretty sure it’ll work with the Mini 4K. Need to find out!


Well, I've got the Shogun Inferno and the image is not pleasant to look at with the Mini 4K. So I'd keep my expectations low.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 7:03 pm

JonPais wrote:Well, I've got the Shogun Inferno and the image is not pleasant to look at with the Mini 4K. So I'd keep my expectations low.


Geez… so what is supposed to be the solution; you have to go AJA?
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Mar 12, 2020 8:18 pm

PhotoJoseph wrote:
JonPais wrote:Well, I've got the Shogun Inferno and the image is not pleasant to look at with the Mini 4K. So I'd keep my expectations low.


Geez… so what is supposed to be the solution; you have to go AJA?


The issue isn't with the I/O... you can read up on the Sumo over at MysteryBox:

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2017/12/ ... os-sumo-19

It's not ideal for grading video: first, because each panel is different, they've got to be calibrated with an X-Rite i1Display Pro with Atomos calibration cable. Then you've got to load a custom LUT (for all I know, no longer available: unless they're in the process of updating their website). Then, you've got to toggle back and forth between the custom LUT and rec.709 for the black levels or something... And it helps if you've got a $35,000 reference monitor lying around to check it against! hehe

But really, even at the time the MysteryBox article was written (2017), an OLED TV was still a better way to go for HDR grading on a dime. Though I'm sure MysteryBox helped Atomos sell a ton of recorders/monitors! Heck, when MysteryBox did their writeup of the Sumo and SmallHD, $3,700.00 was considered a cheap entry-point into the world of HDR - and that's not counting the I/O box!

The Sumo has a bright image and is probably awesome for monitoring on set - as is the Shogun Inferno - but it is not a true HDR display.

Then again, between the time MysteryBox began their blog and now, the landscape has changed tremendously as far as monitors, NLEs, video sharing platforms and display technology go. We've got OLED laptops (only a few hundred nits), and by the end of this year, we'll have mini-LED HDR1000 laptops; uploading HDR to YouTube couldn't be easier and no longer requires being able to write lines of code; there are dual panel LCD reference monitors and in a few years, maybe even affordable microLED monitors (or maybe not!); most of the NLEs now support HDR, and on and on. To give credit where credit is due, MysteryBox were something of pioneers when they embarked on HDR, and they've helped spread the love.

I'd avoid the Asus HDR monitors: not only because of the rotten after-sales support, the hideous highlight blooming, the gruesome ergonomics, aggressive sharpening and so on - but because, in addition to an I/O box, you'll also need to purchase a $1,300.00 USD Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 8K HDR if you want to calibrate it - and you'll want to! hehe Here in Vietnam, the Teranex goes for $1,600 - if you can even find one!

LG has partnered with CalMAN and they offer calibration for their more recent OLED TVs, but I'm certain it's not without issues - though it's a heck of a lot less expensive than purchasing a Teranex. However, the software only works with Windows operating system. lol For now, I just use the settings over at Rtings.com.

Incidentally, it's been what, a year (?) since the Teranex was released and I haven't seen a single report, review or video demonstrating someone successfully calibrating anything with it.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 4:55 am

Even trying to grade rec.709 footage with the Shogun Inferno is ridiculous, as I just learned this afternoon. While the iPhone photo I took of the display is only a dim representation of the horrific image I'm really seeing, the blotchy, coarse tonal transitions, inaccurate color, excessive contrast and greenish tinge around the cheek and forehead make grading anything with the Shogun pointless.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostMon Mar 16, 2020 5:53 pm

And what is your connection set up now?
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostTue Mar 17, 2020 1:36 am

PhotoJoseph wrote:And what is your connection set up now?

5K iMac > UltraStudio Mini 4K HDR > LG C7 OLED
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Jun 04, 2020 11:27 am

PhotoJoseph wrote:And what is your connection set up now?


Hi Joseph, just wonder if I would like to use my Ninja V as a HDR grading monitor, can I use BMD ultrastudio mini monitor and connect to my macbook Pro 16inch and use FCPX for editing?

Do I need to get AtomoX SDI Module as well?

Thank you.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostThu Jun 04, 2020 3:52 pm

I have the SmallHD monitor referenced in that Mysterybox article and the X-Rite i1Display Pro from them too. After a lot of back and forth with SmallHD (and an exchange of the first unit for duff power brick and bleeding) and proper calibration I am very satisfied with it for SDR rec. 709 HD grading but I would not be confident for UHD HDR grading on it, even with their luts that I bought for it. I looked at the Atomos new 4K panel but it only has controls via an ios app and I don't own anything remotely Apple. More seriously I don't trust it to be anywhere near true grading HDR quality it claims. I am hopeful that SmallHD's forthcoming 4K Vision series might be nearer the mark.

The problem is that just because a panel has high nits it doesn't mean it is true HDR, the black level is way off on these kind of panels. SmallHD told me that the panel can easily surpass the 900nits advertised to well over a 1000nits but the contrast ratio is low for HDR. I run the SmallHD at around 2-300nits for SDR because 100nits is far too dim. The unit downscales to HD from 4K from the Ultrastudio 4K mini whilst passing that 4K to a client monitor. A 3d lut can also be added downstream, which means I can use the probe to additionally calibrate virtually any client monitor too, which was a big sell for me. At the moment it's mostly UK broadcast HD SDR work so it fits the bill.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostFri Jun 05, 2020 5:13 am

kelvinhu956 wrote:
PhotoJoseph wrote:And what is your connection set up now?


Hi Joseph, just wonder if I would like to use my Ninja V as a HDR grading monitor, can I use BMD ultrastudio mini monitor and connect to my macbook Pro 16inch and use FCPX for editing?

Do I need to get AtomoX SDI Module as well?

Thank you.


First of all, you’d need to calibrate the Ninja with an X-Rite i1Display Pro, then upload a LUT. However, LUTs are no longer available from Mystery Box. But rather than grading on a postage stamp, you’d be better off picking up an OLED television for $1,500 and a 4K Mini HDR. There’s a good chance Apple will be releasing a 1,000 nit mini-LED 16” Macbook Pro toward the end of next year, though micro-LED is really the way forward.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostFri Jun 05, 2020 9:46 am

JonPais wrote:
kelvinhu956 wrote:
PhotoJoseph wrote:And what is your connection set up now?


Hi Joseph, just wonder if I would like to use my Ninja V as a HDR grading monitor, can I use BMD ultrastudio mini monitor and connect to my macbook Pro 16inch and use FCPX for editing?

Do I need to get AtomoX SDI Module as well?

Thank you.


First of all, you’d need to calibrate the Ninja with an X-Rite i1Display Pro, then upload a LUT. However, LUTs are no longer available from Mystery Box. But rather than grading on a postage stamp, you’d be better off picking up an OLED television for $1,500 and a 4K Mini HDR. There’s a good chance Apple will be releasing a 1,000 nit mini-LED 16” Macbook Pro toward the end of next year, though micro-LED is really the way forward.



OK, so the best solution maybe: get a Pro XDR or just wait.
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Re: ULTRASTUDIO MINI 4K HDR

PostSat Jun 06, 2020 6:50 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
pgotch wrote:It will work with the Resolve Studio, the free version of resolve doesn't support HDR. It will also work and BMD explicitly claim support for Avid Media Composer in the latest Desktop Video update.

As far as I can make out while Blackmagic claim that the Ultrastudio Mini 4K works with Final Cut Pro X it won't output the correct metadata over HDMI for HDR.

Having put a support request in asking about this I got a frankly rude response back. FCPX support for BMD hardware seems to be under sufferance which is somewhat useless if you need to use it in order to deal with Pro Res RAW footage.

The AJA IO 4K+ is known to work correctly with Final Cut Pro X for HDR however it's nearly 3 times the price of the Mini 4K and of course won't work with Resolve.

There doesn't seem to be any incentive to fix this state of affairs and BMD want you to use Resolve and their hardware. Apple want you to buy a Pro Display XDR which you can directly connect to a recent Mac and use as an AV output for FCPX.

Fixing it so the correct metadata is requested and output is probably a simple software fix however as long as both companies are more interested in pushing their own solutions rather than making their stuff work together we aren't going to get support and BMD won't get my money.



Cheapest fix is inserting one of the HDFury boxes into your HDMI chain. You can then flag your signal as you wish regardless of host app or even BM hardware. Just make sure your flagging reflects Resolve project settings.

It's Apple which needs to update FCPX. BM can't really do much about it. It's like asking AJA to add support for their cards into Resolve :D



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