VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 3:39 pm

And here are QTGMC Deinterlace tests with and without NNEDI3 resizer to compare:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fDys9 ... sbSCa9dL8W
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JiEtU ... ew3EpJNzct
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:It's because 35mm sources used for txfr in a majority of cases are from release prints that have nowhere near the resolution of the negative. I simply don't believe that 35mm film from more than 20 years ago has anywhere near 4K resolution, oversampling makes sense but that's not the same as saying it's 4k +. Plus film has detail in a different way to video.

Yep, but still some look way sharper than others. I assume this is the same as some digital recordings looks better than other.
I can see why it would happen - it's easy to denoise a digital image to point of it looking plastic and it's possible that you might want to add it back - I'd swear that what's happened to that Cocteau film because it does not look organic at all. In any case I'm planning to add a real very fine grained film overlay, not a digitally generated one.


If they de-grain badly it first then it's just bad restoration (it happens too often). You don't de-grain in order to later add fake grain.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 10:20 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:
Made one without the clipping, it came from the fact that VEAI is working in sRGB


Thanks Uli, but it's still got twitter, it just wouldn't pass QC. Well done for your efforts though, appreciated.


Yes. It's always a critical balance. If I deinterlace with QTGMC, the line twitter is gone, but even with VEAI I don't get the same amount of texture anymore. It's residual twitter or detail in the end. If you have a progressive source, like from some early Panasonic cameras, it's night and day for upscaling.

BTW, FilmConvert Nitrate is doing some of the best fake grain these days. The key is that you can control the grain for different levels of luminance, that's far more realistic.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 5:09 am

From all those tests TopazAI looks interesting, but from what i see here and in other YouTube examples it is for still images but not for video. Some fine details in hair and face are reconstructed, but same time it produce too many glitches and artifacts in motion.
QTGMC Deinterlace with NNEDI3 can't reconstruct details in same way but it is way more stable and don't produce glitches and artifacts. The main problem with QTGMC is that it amplify sharpening edges effect if source video have too many in-camera sharpeness edges effect. Not sure is this due bug when Sharpeness adjustment disabled on macOS, or is this just how it works. I was thinking to compare with Windows version but i can't understand how to install VapourSynth on Windows yet.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 7:23 am

Dmitry, Good results but in both examples there is marked edge enhancement - you can see it on the back of his shirt. It's similar to over-coreing on DV/HDV cameras. The de interlacing is not perfect either.

To be absolutely fair I chose this shot because it is a MLS and a moving dolly shot too. Together with LS these are the most difficult shots to successfully uprez. Close ups (which fortunately are in the main) are looking much better. The DCT macro blocking of DV really falls apart with the longer shots.

Andrew, I agree but as you concede it does happen. It's very easy to remove grain from film scans, from Super 8 up to 35mm - Neat Video does a remarkable job of it - whether it's desirable is another question. The point of grain is it has a psycho-perceptual effect - we are fooled into focusing on a plane rather than looking at the inherent depth of field. It's a trick, a con, but it does seem to work. It's broadly similar to ground glass viewfinder focusing. There is no more actual detail at all.

Uli, thanks for the heads up - I'll give it a try.

Thanks for all your help, once again guys, it's been very interesting.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 7:47 am

Yes your video is very nice for test purposes because complicated motion, a lot of artifacts (codec blocks compression, oversharpened edges, high contrast scene, dee shadows and highlights clipping).
That oversharpened edge enhancement exists in source of this video itself. It is not due QTGMC Deinterlace or NNEDI3 resize. Probably oversharpened edge enhancement is less visible in other apps due some simplified deinterlace or due some special filters.
Here is side by side example. QTGMC Deinterlace on left and VLC Yadif (2x) on right:
Image
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:12 am

Yes it does exist in the original but I know that the Sony DSR 570s we used then were set up the best they could be, with detail -30. Ideally it should have been shot in Digibeta as that stands up far better. I started shooting this series in HDV (JVC GY-HD100), I bought one of the first ones in Europe - but at the time it didn't work with Avid. I have HDV footage from that era which holds up far better. Nonetheless the sharpening added through Hybrid has accentuated the original coreing.

I'll be interested to see if you can get Hybrid to work on Windows, I have not been able to.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:20 am

Yes those black oversharpened edges exists in any camera of those days. Sort of artifact that should be corrected somehow during video restoration. Maybe some filter like "de-sharp edges" exists in Hybrid... I don't know yet, i don't tested all filters in Hybrid yet.

In 99% of cases Hybrid don't work because required plug-ins are not installed or installed in wrong places. You need to install VapourSynth or AviSynth with plug-ins seperately on Windows same as on macOS.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:40 am

Here is an unclipped export of the SD Frame:

TestShotLegal.jpg
TestShotLegal.jpg (289.13 KiB) Viewed 3798 times


CCTestShot.jpg
CCTestShot.jpg (127.58 KiB) Viewed 3798 times


This is not graded, just made legal - you can see there is no clipping in the original.

You are right it was impossible to eliminate coreing entirely on DVCam cameras. Digibeta was unnecessary in those days because our narrow bandwidth via Satellite would have made it overkill. We onlined to Digibeta though and those tapes were used for the compression.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 9:50 am

Ok, some more tests. Seems like QTGMC Deinterlace don't add any extra sharpening. It just recovers more details from both fields and as result black oversharpened edges became more visible. Also oversharpened effect is more visible because macOS reads DV videos with higher clipping level than Windows. All data is there it just needs additional adjustment. Problem and solution described in earlier posts.
Here are examples with superblacks and superwhites adjusted to near same "clipless" level in Resolve:

Resolve basic deinterlace:
Image

QTGMC Deinterlace SLOW FTS0:
Image
Image
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:15 am

You have filters for removing those "halos" from the high contrast edges.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:16 am

What exact filter can you suggest?
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:24 am

Thanks Dmitry - I don't use Resolve for finishing, I don't trust the scopes and it has no AS11 export for Broadcast TV, so we finish in Symphony, although we often grade in Resolve. Clipping though shouldn't be overly relevant in this exercise. I agree with you about making the edge enhancement that is there more visible. The point being that becomes ugly and a giveaway of true source.

The Windows version of Hybrid is 330mb and seems to include all the dependencies. In any case I'm not going download Avisynth etc. I hate Fffmeg and only use it for internet viewing copies and I don't want clog up the online suite pc. I had to restore from back up when I deleted Hybrid. Extra system codecs play havoc with Avid.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:39 am

Steve Fishwick wrote:The Windows version of Hybrid is 330mb and seems to include all the dependencies.

I don't have any info about Windows version installation. Hybrid on macOS is about 480MB + VapourSynth with Plugins 225MB

Why hate FFmeg? :)
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:47 am

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Why hate FFmeg?


I should say rather that I hate every gui that comes with it - they are just badly implemented. Professional encoders are very expensive for a reason. I still use Sorensen Squeeze 11, for pre HEVC. It works seamlessly with Avid and the templates whilst very configurable, are very accurate. Mainconcept's TotalCode, too in the lower level professional bracket, is very good. Free encoders have to cheat with proprietary codecs such as Prores and they get rejected in QC.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:14 pm

Ffmpeg is a huge code. Parts of it are very good, others less. You need to spend time to learn how to use it. GUIs are made by 3rd parties, so they are not part of ffmpeg. Complain to their developers (as you said).

When it comes to h264/5 ffmepg it's a very good solution.
ProRes code is not polished (but codec syntax is correct), but you can still produce files which will pass every QC. It just needs bit more than -c:v prores :) Have you seen a ProRes file from ffmpeg which doesn't coded by reference decoder?
All problem are mainly related to lack of precise tagging in MOV container, not ProRes data itself (with some exceptions).
There is no "cheating" in ffmpeg (and developers "don't have to" do anything)- it doesn't present to be anything what it's not. It's all public.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:17 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:What exact filter can you suggest?

Just google "removing halo effect avisynth" or ask on doom9 forum.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:20 pm

You may be right but I don't use FFmpeg for anything serious. I don't have to spend time learning it. Shutter encoder gui is about the best I've come across. I use Handbrake for internet viewing and Vimeo. Like all opensource software there are simply too many cooks spoiling the broth. Hybrid is needlessly complicated. If you have time and you are specialising in compression I can understand. I am not, it's not my main job.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:23 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Dmitry Shijan wrote:What exact filter can you suggest?

Just google "removing halo effect avisynth" or ask on doom9 forum.


Ok, nice to know that this artifact name is "Halo". In Hybrid there are some filters in: Filtering -> VapourSynth -> DeHalo/-Ring
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:28 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:You may be right but I don't use FFmpeg for anything serious. I don't have to spend time learning it. Shutter encoder gui is about the best I've come across. I use Handbrake for internet viewing and Vimeo. Like all opensource software there are simply too many cooks spoiling the broth. Hybrid is needlessly complicated. If you have time and you are specialising in compression I can understand. I am not, it's not my main job.


This is the price you pay- either 1 click solution or more complex. 1 click solutions are never optimal. The more complex codec etc. the less optimal they will be. For things like ProRes they are fine. You can do nice and simple GUI for h264/5, but no one seems to be interested to develop one.
As an editor you just edit and export intermediate master. If you need to do more then you have to learn. Like with many areas doing 1 thing (even well) now is not enough.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:36 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:This is the price you pay- either 1 click solution or more complex.


Editing is my job. I will pay for and use professional tools, the investment is small and time is valuable. If I can't do it then it gets farmed out. Professional tools are not 1 click solutions - and it is contrary to what you told Dmitry. I was interested in this, because a) I'm not being paid for it and b) to see if it was miraculously better, even with Dmitry's fine work, it is not in my view. Fortunately this is absolutely a one off in terms of the amount of SD material I have to deal with these days.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:42 pm

I tested DeHalo_Alpha with default settings and it really makes edges less aggressive. There are few different DeHalo filters there but no any quick help info about them. Need to learn which will produce the best quality.

Image

P.S. Quick tip from Selur:

"From my experience:
DeHalo_Alpha is good for otherwise good quality sources.
EdgeCleaner is good for Cartoon like content.
BlindDehalo3 is nice when doing oversharpening before it.
YAHR no clue.

I usually try DeHalo_Alpha adn EdgeCleaner and if those two don't really help I try the other two."
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 1:18 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:This is the price you pay- either 1 click solution or more complex.


Editing is my job. I will pay for and use professional tools, the investment is small and time is valuable. If I can't do it then it gets farmed out. Professional tools are not 1 click solutions - and it is contrary to what you told Dmitry.


H264/5 encoders in about every NLE are (compared to what settings they typically have). I used bad wording.
Have you seen how many settings Mainconcept h264 exporter has in their SDK? Have you seen how many are exposed in eg. Premiere which uses it (5%? ) ? AVID may be also based on Mainconcept (as most pro tools out there). Not a fan of AVID. I prefer Edius which is far quicker for simple projects.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 1:21 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:I tested DeHalo_Alpha with default settings and it really makes edges less aggressive. There are few different DeHalo filters there but no any quick help info about them. Need to learn which will produce the best quality.

Image

P.S. Quick tip from Selur:

"From my experience:
DeHalo_Alpha is good for otherwise good quality sources.
EdgeCleaner is good for Cartoon like content.
BlindDehalo3 is nice when doing oversharpening before it.
YAHR no clue.

I usually try DeHalo_Alpha adn EdgeCleaner and if those two don't really help I try the other two."


Yep, much nicer straight away. There is tons more to learn in avs/vs :)
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 1:37 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:There is tons more to learn in avs/vp :)

The problem is that all that useful info is fragmented on forums and it not so simple to understand meaning of every useful and useless filter and it's settings. That's why i try to simplify and collect all basic things in single FAQ here.
Andrew, it is always welcome if you can add some suggestions if there are some other essential filters required for this analog to digital capture workflow.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 1:50 pm

If you see a problem just ask on doom9 if there is any solution for it :)
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 2:25 pm

Not a fan of AVID. I prefer Edius which is far quicker for simple projects.


It's not a question of personal choice - 95% of TV and film is edited on Avid. No one I know uses Eidus professionally. At least not in the UK. I would be out of work if I chose another system based on 'preference'. Eidus in any case is simply no match, for professional broadcast, to Avid, to suggest so is ridiculous. I have already said to you, I don't encode in Avid, I export for Encoding. You said you worked on Criterion Classics - did you use FFmpeg? Every authoring and encoding house I know of uses Sonic Scenarist and now Ateme Titan - is that a one click solution? No it has infinitely variable tweaking of regions of VBR. Would these facilities use FFmpeg and would their clients be happy knowing they use free tools?
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 4:09 pm

I know what AVID is good at (bigger/complex projects). I know that many places use AVID, but reality is that in so many cases they use it because their editors know it and don't want to switch (similar story is with some Flame operators and NUKE). Another reason is that big places hate changes and many top positions are filled with "old" people who will blindly believe in eg. AVID and keep using/investing in it (regardless if there is anything better or not). It doesn't mean AVID is so great for every job. Not sure how latest version is improved but eg. 10 years ago AVID was so outdated and slow compared to competition, like Edius. Job which took in Edius 1h in AVID was half a day job mainly due to its poor rending speed (real cases not made up). There are TV station which use Edius (specially for news) as it's part of bigger GrassValey systems (not in UK though). Soho is a mafia which is outdated (although recently started to catch up) :D
I never use a single NLE, encoder etc. I always use tool which does job the best/simplest/quickest (unless it cost way to much for the job).
If there is a need to use ffmpeg on job I'll use it. There is absolutely no problem with it if you know what you are doing. If I give you 100 HD x1h ProRes masters and ask to replace end logo will you do it in AVID? I definitely would not (and had it done in 24h).

I had access to all best DVD/BD encoders. I even used different ones depending on the source nature. Most jobs were done with Cinemacraft and Blucode (which you probably never heard of). Scenarist is quite crap software to use (painful, outdated), but due to fact that there is nothing better (as no one is interested in providing tools for DVD/BD anymore) it's used in about every studio (specially for DVD). I authored 3000+ DVDs with it. At the end we had tools which were creating 80% of the project automatically and only some thing were done manually with Scenarist GUI.
Sorenson or Maincocept are toys, not a specialised encoders, specially when it comes to DVD or BD. Sonic's Cinevision was poor as well, which they knew, but played hard to hide (for MPEG2 and AVC). "Real" DVD/BD encoders are Cinemacraft. ATEME is a company which started on doom9 forum, which about no one remembers. They used "public" to create god AVC engine. They are not bad, but those are not really tools designed for BD use. People used it due to lack of good alternatives.

Sorry, but they way how you see pro world is so outdated. Problem with using ffmpeg? Do you know what is behind all internal BBC engines? Do you know how BBC creates DPP files? Days when being a pro= owning/using tools worth millions are gone long time ago. Autodesk has hard times to keep interest in Flame (I also worked for 2 year at top London's VFX house in R&D department). Reality force them to start renting it /Mac version (even if big places were very unhappy about as they paid huge money for each license).
Truth is that todays opens source tools in so many cases are way beyond any pro tools. Do you know what powers Vantage's h264 and h265 encoding? They replaced Mainconcept (which is just average) with x264 and x265. If you think that being pro = using overpriced (very often average or even crap) tools then you are sooooo wrong :D It's the same as believing that AVID is best editor for every editing related job.

Another reality check- old days tweaking encode with segment re-encodingg etc. had some sense as client would pay and appreciate it. Today almost no one does it. Authoring pricing went so much down that it's all done quickly, just to push another title out (2006 = 30+ authoring houses in UK, today probably <5 ). Company where I worked simply gave up at some point (even if we had clients) as money was so poor it had no economical sense.

If I were to give a job to someone, all what I would care is their knowledge, not tool which they use. Using AVID etc. gives me no guarantee for end result at all. This actually became a massive problem- people without knowledge buying cheap Resolve (or even AVID ) thinking they are going to be kings of post :lol: It became one of biggest problems in post industry.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 5:00 pm

I'm sorry Andrew I don't follow any of your logic. It's totally mute, it's not about which one works better for you - muscle memory for one system is not an objective metric - I seriously doubt anyone could cut the sort of episodic TV I work on any quicker than most of the editors I know on anything else- they happen to work on Avid because that is the de facto industry standard.

Often that means 20 plus seats connected to Nexis. It makes no sense to online then on anything else - that is, in DNxHD/R to AS11 AVC-Intra within Avid, no ProRes no FFmpeg. Resolve is used a lot for grading but Avid for finishing. I doubt if any professional editors I know, from Hollywood to Heathrow knows a flying fig about the complexities of FFmpeg either.

Having said all that, if it were a choice Avid invented the very paradigm, has the most robust tools and media management - I would still choose it. Regardless I have no choice in the matter anyway, if I want to eat, but I respect what works for you.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 5:16 pm

Yes and this mainly what AVID is good at. So there are places where it makes perfect sense and other ones when it doesn't. Still in this 2nd case some people will use it for "no real/valid reasons".
I've seen small (or not even) places buying AVID only because it's AVID and it's used in big places. Then it was useless for them as it's not best tool for quick jobs (and also handling different formats). Buy/use a tool which works for you the best, not a tool which you would like to have (because others use it).
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 5:23 pm

Sorry, but they way how you see pro world is so outdated.
Just caught that one haha. If I am I'm not alone - because that's the current industry I'm working in and that's the reality. I was involved with BMX that came from BBC Ingex too, so yes I do know. We're also currently involved in adapting to IMF workflows for Netflix, so we're looking to the future - Avid is very much doing so too.

There's a fine line Andrew between helpful imparting of knowledge and bragging for the sake of showing off and you've dragged me over that line, which was not my intention. So I'll bow out, much to the relief of everyone, I'm sure - thanks for your help.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 7:55 pm

Nothing to do with showing off.
I just don't think AVID is a solution to every editing problem. It's far from it at least for me.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 7:56 pm

Let's back to topic.
In AviSynth Wilki DeHalo_alpha described as "Very powerful filter to remove edge enhancement artifacts." So seems it is really best filter to go.

Some oversharpening really exists due QTGMC itself. Just a reminder: due bug in macOS version of Hybrid even if Sharpness mark is unchecked in UI, it is always used in VapourSynth script. So QTGMC always force use Sharpness=1.0.
Here is what i see when i click to "Show VapourSynth Script" button:
Code: Select all
# Deinterlacing using QTGMC
clip = havsfunc.QTGMC(Input=clip, Preset="Slower", TFF=True, InputType=0, TR2=1, Sharpness=1.0, SourceMatch=0, Lossless=0)

:arrow: Problem fix:
Export QTGMC preset from Hybrid.
Open .json file in Text Editor.
Change "vsQTGMCSharpness": "1.0" to "vsQTGMCSharpness": "0.0"
Save scahges.
Apply same preset in Hybrid.

Now the code in "Show VapourSynth Script" looks like this:
Code: Select all
# Deinterlacing using QTGMC
clip = havsfunc.QTGMC(Input=clip, Preset="Slower", TFF=True, InputType=0, TR2=1, Sharpness=0.0, SourceMatch=0, Lossless=0)

This is not a replacement for DeHalo_alpha filter but this can make things looking slightly more smoother and softer.
This needs some tests to proof, but usually it is always better to apply sharpen filter on already upscaled HD video in Resolve but not on SD video before upscaling.

Image
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 11:36 am

1.0 is typically too high value for sure. For small sharpening 0.3-0.4 is more pleasing.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 8:04 am

@Andrew
You are right, 0.3 looks pretty good to me.

@ Dmitry
While I was able to find the functions to hack the sharpness with your screenshot, my Hybrid is showing icons instead of text. Where do I change that?
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 9:01 am

Uli Plank wrote:While I was able to find the functions to hack the sharpness with your screenshot, my Hybrid is showing icons instead of text. Where do I change that?

It was described in this post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259&start=50#p613948 also same info was added to first post FAQ (i add new info time to time there)
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 10:00 am

Thanks! Sorry, should have gone back again.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 10:38 am

I found that DeHalo_alpha filter may produce artifacts on pure black frames or pure black borders. Seems it detects those black areas as huge halos and attempt to fix them.
Make sure to do some tests before apply DeHalo_alpha on final master renders.

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 12:56 pm

They will be not evenly black and probably this is what triggers it.
Looks for some setting which may fix it.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 3:38 pm

One observation regarding audio: if you have audio in the source, you can pass it through or convert as needed.
But if there is no audio, you need to set it to 'ignore' or your job will crash, sometimes Hybrid too.
'Passthrough' is not an option then.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue May 12, 2020 1:52 am

Is there a good workflow for generating 24p from 60i. I would love to remaster my films from the mid 90's Hi-8 and S-VHS master footage. Years ago I messed around with plugins that looked O.k., but am sure are much better now.

Also is anyone using the intensity Pro 4k? I see it has its own TBC, so one less piece of hardware to acquire to capture the camera originals. Any recommendations on what TB3 case to use to use the card with an iMac? I'm thinking about just getting an enclosure made for GPU, as it isn't much more money, that way when I'm done all my captures I could pull the card and add a gpu.

It would be time consuming, but I'd rather have all the footage deinterlaced prior to editing, as that should give the best final results, and I don't think Resolve likes interlaced footage.

I have the ability to capture from analog to DV codec via an old Sony converter box, but I assume investing in capture to ProRes 422 will give me much better end results. The DV route also has audio issues, as it uses the weird 12bit 32k that early DVD cameras had, rather than 16bit 48.

I would love to just get the Thunderbolt intensity, as I don't need the 4k playbook solution, but have read that analog capture is hit and miss without running through a TBC. I do have a DVD recorder that I could route the signal through, if those do in fact help clean the signal.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue May 12, 2020 3:26 am

For Hi-8 I'd definitely recommend using a D-8 camcorder, some can play out analog Hi-8 as DV.

For deinterlacing it's QTGMC, I have not yet seen anything better. Just take care to turn the sharpness down as described above. Why do you want to go from the resulting 30p to 24p? Any good TV or monitor will show 30p.
Or were these from movies at 24fps in the first place? Then check the options for inverse Telecine in Hybrid.

Can't tell if S-VHS is digested without problems by the Intensity Pro, never tested.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostThu May 14, 2020 4:15 am

I'm not sure what a D-8 camcorder would gain other than a FireWire capture in DV codec. I'm considering doing to Intensify to avoid that, I have a high quality hardware analog to DV encoder if I just used that codec. Couldn't hurt to try this workflow on it to see what t looks like.

For 24p I'd be looking to emulate the look of 24p capture from original 60i sources. These were narrative projects made before digital film look was really possible. I don't really care for the look of 30p it's not aesthetically any better than the original interface, just cleaner to edit without jaggies and blur frames. Would reverse telecine settings drop the appropriate frames when there isn't any cadence in the source?

I would probably add some film grain to at least get some dirty 16mm look.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostThu May 14, 2020 6:16 am

I suppose you are referring to the Intensity I/O cards by BMD. These are sensitive to timing errors from analog media, you may need a TBC to get things right.

Yes, inverse telecine is meant to remove all the extra fields and get you back to film 24 at fps. That's why I asked about the source. Things get nasty, though, if that video transfer has been edited without observing the cadence.

Finally, careful with too much grain if the footage will finally go through heavy compression (like H264/265) or your nice grain may turn into ugly pixel blocks.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun May 17, 2020 5:07 pm

VapourSynth + Plugins + Scripts + Hybrid package update 2020.05.17
Changes:
VapourSynth R50
D2V Witch v3
MKVToolNix 46.0.0 (Inside Hybrid.app)
Updated FAQ

:arrow: DOWNLOAD from Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hzy3f0zyuyu4 ... O5zla?dl=0
:arrow: DOWNLOAD from Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon May 18, 2020 11:37 am

Curtis Campsall wrote:For 24p I'd be looking to emulate the look of 24p capture from original 60i sources. These were narrative projects made before digital film look was really possible. I don't really care for the look of 30p it's not aesthetically any better than the original interface, just cleaner to edit without jaggies and blur frames. Would reverse telecine settings drop the appropriate frames when there isn't any cadence in the source?

I would probably add some film grain to at least get some dirty 16mm look.


If you have original 24p, but converted to 60i then this is fairly easy to do (although can be also difficult if files went through many "other" conversions).
Converting real 60i to emulate 24p is far from easy (nothing to do with reverse telecine), but this is one of the things which QTGMC can also do. It's all down to very good deinterlacing + in this case also adding motion blur. It will never look as original 24p recording, but it can emulate it up to some degree.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon May 18, 2020 12:41 pm

So you assume it's not 29.97 with telecine?
Nomenclature is sometimes quite unclear. The EBU, for example, is calling 50 interlaced fields now i25, giving the resolution in front (e.g. 720i25 or 1080i25). So they are always counting full frames. But 50i would mean the same, there is no format with 100 interlaced fields.

But if it's really 60 fps still showing interlace artifacts, it may have a damaged cadence and a simple inverse telecine wouldn't work.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostMon May 18, 2020 3:00 pm

Yes and another half of industry uses 50i naming.
Damaged cadence is not a deal breaker for avisynth or vs. Restoring perfect cadence is trivial. When it breaks every some time then you need much better system, but avisynth or vs has no issue with it.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue Jun 09, 2020 9:54 pm

Uli Plank wrote:One observation regarding audio: if you have audio in the source, you can pass it through or convert as needed.
But if there is no audio, you need to set it to 'ignore' or your job will crash, sometimes Hybrid too.
'Passthrough' is not an option then.


Here another interesting problem related to professional formats, but i didn't test it on macOS yet. It was discussed here https://forum.selur.net/showthread.php? ... 89#pid7789

Hybrid can't passthrough 24bit audio if use default FFmbc muxer.
:arrow: Problem Fix: Use FFmpeg muxer instead of FFmbc muxer.
Config -> Output -> Container Settings -> uncheck FFmbc for .mov muxing
Or you can just transcode from 24bit to 24bit instead of passthrough.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostThu Jun 11, 2020 2:03 pm

I followed all of the steps of installation very carefully however Hybrid starts throwing errors trying to launch on macOS Catalina.

I know Catalina ditched 32bit and its a big pain for everyone, but I’m trying to do the QTGMC deinterlace on a 2019 Mac Pro that shipped with Catalina, so I don’t have much of a choice.

Do you smarter people than I know of a way to get vapoursynth or AviSynth to run on 64bit only version? I don’t mind doing terminal typing and not have as much of a GUI front end. I just want to utilize this more powerful system to do the deinterlace vs an older system or a windows system.

I’m also trying to research into how to offload any of it to GPU processing too.

Hell I’d be all about having an OpenFX plugin of QTGMC for Resolve!

Thanks all
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