VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue Apr 14, 2020 9:05 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:You have to be careful even with Hybrid as some filtering paths may not preserve 10bit. This is why 'pure' vs+ffmpeg is much better as then you know what exactly is happening in your processing chain.


Hybrid is just empty UI with buttons for vs+ffmpeg, so it do all things same as 'pure' vs+ffmpeg. I asked on the forum https://forum.selur.net/showthread.php? ... 74#pid6974 about internal processing inside Hybrid and here is the answer from developer:
When Avisynth or Vapoursynth are used and what filters are used Hybrid will convert to the bit depth required by the filter.
Depending on the filter 8bit, 10bit, 12bit or 16bit will be used.
Not sure how ffmpeg handles this internally.
In general color sampling precision should be kept assuming the output format supports it and the encoder is configured to keep it.
So to keep 12bit precision you need to encode to 12bit and not apply filters which require a lower precision.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue Apr 14, 2020 12:14 pm

Yes, but Hybrid developer doesn't know all filters. Some of them for long time had only 8bit modes. He can try to force eg. 16bit pipe, but there is no guarantee it will be preserved. Depending how it's coded it may fail (which is better way) or "silently" switch to 8bit.
With vs it should be all good, but with avisytnth (which for long time did not support 8bit+ precision) it's not so obvious.
ProRes444 is still encoded at 10bit in ffmpeg (only decoding is fixed), so avoid creating 444 files with ffmpeg (if you care about 12bit precision).
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostTue Apr 14, 2020 2:07 pm

:arrow: Problem: Hybrid adds additional empty frame to .MP4 x265/265 transcoded video. This is probably due outdated MP4Box/GPAC muxer components.
No problem when transcode to .MKV or .MOV container with same x265/265 settings.
:arrow: Problem fix: "Config->Output->Container Settings->Mp4 Settings->FFmpeg instead of MP4Box"

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostWed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm

It is also possible to change font size, use native system buttons instead of custom UI icons and do some other hidden customizations (see more info here https://forum.selur.net/showthread.php?tid=10):

1. Create hidden folder ".hybrid" in home directory (~/.hybrid/)
2. Create TXT file and rename it to "misc.ini"
3. Put misc.ini inside ".hybrid" folder (~/.hybrid/misc.ini)
4. Add this text to "misc.ini" file:
Code: Select all
[General]
disableIcons=true
fontSize=14
toolTipFontSize=14

Now UI looks like this:

Image

Also seems there is some macOS only related problem with too small font size in some Tooltips and Help Info panel (CTRL+F10). toolTipFontSize in misc.ini file can't fix this problem. Seems the only solution is to Copy/Paste text to external TXT document and read it there.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 12:26 pm

VapourSynth + Plugins + Scripts + Hybrid package update 2020.04.16
Changes:
Updated FAQ

:arrow: DOWNLOAD from Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hzy3f0zyuyu4 ... O5zla?dl=0
:arrow: DOWNLOAD from Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostThu Apr 23, 2020 11:02 pm

Here is one more very odd problem related to some BlackMagic capture cards - moire-like diagonal pattern when capture with S-Video input. That pattern appears due some chip overheat. There are a lot of rather hot chips on the board, so it is unknown yet what exact overheated chip produce this pattern.
:arrow: Problem fix: put some cooler directly under the capture card during capture. For external capture boxes you may try to open enclosure and put cooler inside somehow.

Problem and solution was described in details earlier in this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32036

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:07 am

This looks very interesting, thanks. I am currently remastering a TV series to HD, for Blu Ray and streaming, for which the master only exists as 576i50 and I have tried everything for 2 weeks. All solutions so far have been very disappointing. Resolve Studio's Superscaler is no better than anything else, neither Boris Uprez, nor online Pixop. The problem is the misunderstanding of 'upscaling' and 'uprezing'. Most every solution will smooth out the pixels but that will never produce extra real perceivable and convincing HD detail, even with sharpening. You see this all the time on programme content that includes SD material. What I have found best is infact to use no dedicated 'upscaling' at all. In Avid I apply fluid motion deinterlacing, then noise reduction/sharpening with Neat video, change the format to 1080p, use Avid's internal rather poor upscaling and finally add very fine film grain. It looks, on well shot material, like a convincing 16mm txfr to HD. But I am very interested in trying this software to see if I can improve on that. The problem is as ever in post - time - this is a 5 1hr TV series. I am going to do some small tests but do you have a small SD to HD clip to view? Thanks again.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:17 am

Steve Fishwick wrote:do you have a small SD to HD clip to view? Thanks again.


There are compare tests and examples posted earlier on first page of this thread.
It is very interesting to see how QTGMC deinterlace will compare to Avid fluid motion deinterlace.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:28 am

Thanks Dimitry, missed that. Avid's fluid motion deinterlacing is by far the best method I have found yet, but I have not yet tried QTGMC, though I was aware of it - every other solution with it involves installing multiple apps and I haven't wanted to clog up a highly tuned online pc - the fluid motion is by far the most successful aspect of the remastering so I have not needed an alternative. The other misunderstood aspect to upscaling, I have found, is practically everything is more or less useless for stills and text. Fortunately I have the original project so all stills, text, titles and rostrum can be conformed in true HD.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:43 am

NNEDI3 AI upscale works in pair with QTGMC deinterlace here. NNEDI3 is way better and way different than Resolve SuperScale or similar resizers. It don't produce oversharpening effect and it don't produce cartoon-like look. I didn't post examples with Resolve SuperScale because it just too aggressive and unnatural when it goes to SD footage upscale.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:48 am

I didn't post examples with Resolve SuperScale because it just too aggressive and unnatural when it goes to SD footage upscale.


This is exactly what I found. Sorry I can't locate a download link from the first page, which would you suggest - I'd very much like to see that balloon example as a movie clip? The good thing too with Hybrid is it can export to DNxHD directly.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:57 am

Steve Fishwick wrote:
Sorry I can't locate a download link from the first page, which would you suggest - I'd very much like to see that balloon example as a movie clip?

There is no download link because i didn't post original DV files there :) Here is download link for you https://drive.google.com/open?id=1olTFn ... CbrQpbuTBl
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 10:11 am

Many thanks Dmitry. Do you have the clip upscaled using your method at hand? I should clarify the scale of the problem I face. Although I have the original project and media, it was transfered from a 15 year old usb 2 drive, that had been kept in a damp garage. 95% was miraculously online. the remaining 5% was corrupted, but I have a DV mixdown of those sections. Unfortunately some of that does involves text and stills. The original camera footage was DVCam interlaced from a DSR 570 with very good lenses, about as good as it could get, but still woefully soft now, of course. Are you saying that to get the best results I need to use QTGMC? Can I use NNEDI3 AI alone with the deinterlaced DVCam from Avid?
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 10:15 am

Sure, you can use NNEDI3 alone with any footage. Just turn off QTGMC deinterlace filter, set resize to HD, add NNEDI3 resize filter, and add Rec601 to Rec709 filter.

P.S. It is better to make your own tests with footage that you already know well.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 10:37 am

Thanks will do. Here is an example using my Avid method. I had to compress them to upload and the image moving looks better
TestShotSD-min.png
TestShotSD-min.png (225.79 KiB) Viewed 3039 times
Original camera image
TestShotHD-min.png
Avid HD
TestShotHD-min.png (993.4 KiB) Viewed 3039 times
After Avid uprez to HD.

I'll try your method on your clip and this same clip too. Thanks again.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 10:45 am

It is hard to tell something, because it is full of pixel noise, because seems you compress it to 256 colors PNG. Or are there some crazy posterization artifacts produced by Avid and upscale? Anyway even so i can see jaggies artifacts on deinterlaced frame. Can you compress it to normal JPEG with sort of 90-95% quality? Maybe you can also share few seconds of the trimmed source clip? It is interesting to play with anamorphic material.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 10:50 am

Hi Steve,

I have compared QTGMC plus NNEDI3 with my own method of separating fields and upscaling with Topaz Video Enhancer AI. While the latter is doing some miracles to SD footage, it is not miles ahead and much slower (and not cheap). Everything else I tried is inferior.

If you want a test, post a short sample for me.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 12:01 pm

OK will do, give me an hour so. I have found that Hybrid for windows does not work well with DNxHD, there is a par error that I cannot find a solution for - Pro Res seems OK.
Last edited by Steve Fishwick on Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 12:18 pm

It is hard to tell something, because it is full of pixel noise, because seems you compress it to 256 colors PNG. Or are there some crazy posterization artifacts produced by Avid and upscale? Anyway even so i can see jaggies artifacts on deinterlaced frame.


Yes you are quite right, the deinterlacing is not as perfect as I thought upon close inspection but it plays better than it looks as a still. The 'poserisation' is down to the macroblocking of the DV codec and the auto profile of Neat video - which I can see I need to work on. I have to revisit the exports because Avid resets timeline resolution (draft rather full quality) when you change format and this seems to have an effect on output.

TestShotSD.jpg
TestShotSD.jpg (311.22 KiB) Viewed 3019 times


TestShotHD-min.jpg
TestShotHD-min.jpg (290.61 KiB) Viewed 3015 times


Jpeg 100%. HD had to be compressed again because of 1mb file limit
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 12:28 pm

Here is a download file for the original SD clip:

https://we.tl/t-LSh8aY1DB4
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 12:34 pm

I'll have a go at it.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 12:57 pm

Many thanks Uli
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 1:41 pm

Avid produce less detailed image, don't removes jaggies from straight lines and edges, adds crazy amount of noise (or is it some sort of dithering? Or is it due too basic resize? Or is this grain effect added in post?).
QTGMC with NNEDI3 is way better.

Avid HD:
Image

QTGMC SLOW-FTS0, RESIZE to 1080p NNEDI3-32-N2-P2:
Image

And this is QTGMC with some post processing in Resolve described in earlier posts (Noise Reduction, Film Grain, Gamut Mapping with adjusted Max Input Lum to avoid clipping) Open full sized image in new tab:
Image
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:02 pm

Interesting and thanks. Which frame did you use? The HD frame has film grain only - the SD sequence is a bit for bit DV export of the original. I need to see the frame without post processing in Resolve. This is all pre-grading (16-235), so that is not a fair comparison - the contrast and full level export you have added creates a subjective improvement.

There is definitely though a marked improvement in deinterlacing and for that alone I'm seriously considering using this method, though there is quite severe edge enhancement. There is no real increase in perceived detail, but that is not possible I believe with any current method.

I can't get Hybrid to work, DNxHD has an output par error, I can't see any way to tell it that the source is a top field Pal interlace. Prores and other formats just keeps outputing - I killed it at 18.5GB for the 10 second clip. I'd be extremely grateful if you can give me the precise settings you used.
Last edited by Steve Fishwick on Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:09 pm

Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgh70smcuvzql ... Q.mp4?dl=0
(Upload will take a few minutes)

It has some shift in contrast and color since VEAI works in sRGB.
Tomorrow I'll upload a version with another upscaling profile.
It's in 50p.
Last edited by Uli Plank on Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:10 pm

On second thoughts the Neat Video NR/sharpening could be to blame for the artefacts. It's too aggressive. I have to retrace my steps carefully but I think the best results I got were without it.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:11 pm

Thanks Uli - could you do it in 25p, that is really important for this film?
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:14 pm

Well, I used the full information, since it was interlaced, right?
But you can always drop every other frame.

More tomorrow, it's late here.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:21 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:Interesting and thanks. Which frame did you use? The HD frame has film grain only - the SD sequence is a bit for bit DV export of the original. I need to see the frame without post processing in Resolve. This is all pre-grading (16-235), so that is not a fair comparison - the contrast and full level export you have added creates a subjective improvement.

There is definitely though a marked improvement in deinterlacing and for that alone I'm seriously considering using this method, though there is quite severe edge enhancement. There is no real increase in perceived detail, but that is not possible I believe with any current method.

I can't get Hybrid to work, DNxHD has an output par error, I can't see any way to tell it that the source is a top field Pal interlace. Prores and other formats just keeps outputing - I killed it at 18.5GB for the 10 second clip. I'd be extremely grateful if you can give me the precise settings you used.


In viewer screenshot i set input range to "full" to match video to your incorrectly exported JPEG example. In final frame i set levels to "Video" because this is usually the correct way to work with DV and most other footage.
As for Hybrid bugs, i tested workflow only on macOS version and only with ProRes. Hybrid is rather complicated app, so at least you need to read and learn manual in this thread. A lot of things may be different on Windows version. There are a lot of tutorials and FAQs for Windows on https://forum.selur.net/index.php https://forum.videohelp.com/ and https://forum.doom9.org forums. This thread is limited mostly to ProRes delivery on macOS and for macOS related problems.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:29 pm

Yes no worries, thanks. That does look sharper, though there is still some interlacing:

Artemis_HQ.new.01.jpg
Artemis_HQ.new.01.jpg (674.13 KiB) Viewed 2994 times


What settings did you use, if I may ask
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:38 pm

This one looks too smoothed and totally lost all details and textures.

I use same settings as described in manual:
QTGMC preset "SLOW", switched to "Custom" and Final Temporal Smoothing set to 0 (I use short name in description QTGMC SLOW-FTS0)
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 3:42 pm

Many thanks, yes that's the one from Uli. I'm finding a more organic look pleasing and perceptually working. I'll try your settings but the edge enhancement, judging from the still, is slightly doing the same
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 pm

Those grabs still look over-processed. Play more with QTGMC settings, specially noise reduction and sharpening. You can get even better results, to the point where not much can come close.

If you have SD masters then I see 0 point upscaling them- waste fo time, resource, space, streaming bitrate etc. Most current TVs have quite good upscalers, so you gain not much.
Only time when it makes sense is if you do some HD work and need to use shots which are available only as SD.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 4:26 pm

If you have SD masters then I see 0 point upscaling them- waste fo time, resource, space, streaming bitrate etc. Most current TVs have quite good upscalers, so you gain not much.


This is for a commercial Blu Ray release, it's not an option to release it in SD and tell people to rely on their telly. Only the original camera footage is SD, there is a lot of rostrum and clips. It's not ideal granted - it is what it is - it's more of a restoration than reformat. I disagree that TVs have adequate upscalers, in any case I'm not going to tell them to sort it themselves.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 5:52 pm

I had my settings in Avid incorrect. I can achieve just as good deinterlacing and I feel the process withing Avid produces a much more natural and pleasing image when it plays - using Hybrid is far too involved for little gain, I feel. Thanks very much guys, I appreciate your help.

TestShotHDgrain.jpg
TestShotHDgrain.jpg (288.92 KiB) Viewed 2920 times
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 6:32 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:
If you have SD masters then I see 0 point upscaling them- waste fo time, resource, space, streaming bitrate etc. Most current TVs have quite good upscalers, so you gain not much.


This is for a commercial Blu Ray release, it's not an option to release it in SD and tell people to rely on their telly. Only the original camera footage is SD, there is a lot of rostrum and clips. It's not ideal granted - it is what it is - it's more of a restoration than reformat. I disagree that TVs have adequate upscalers, in any case I'm not going to tell them to sort it themselves.


Oh, one of those BDs :) In next few years they will release another version as UHD this time. All from same SD source :lol:

If AVID can match QTGMC then this is something very new :) I don't think I will ever believe in it.
All NLEs had and still have rather poor and simple deinterlacing.
This grab has some strange, fake grain on top of very low detailed image. It will force h264 encoder to work hard and if you give it to 3rd party for authoring they may start de-noising your fake grain :)
There are better "grains"- those which are real scans from film, not digital, fake ones. They look and process better.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:05 pm

Oh, one of those BDs :) In next few years they will release another version as UHD this time. All from same SD source :lol:


This is a series I made myself and originally released on DVD. Perhaps I was not clear but there is an SD master and there is an original project, media and stills, so I am only using the SD master for the 5% of corrupted media. For the rest I can rebuild all text, titles, graphics and rostrum in HD. I thought it was completely lost and there is still interest in it.

I have demonstrated to myself that the deinterlacing is at least as good in Avid. The grain is Illusion Fx and it is a quick and dirty test, I have many downloaded real grains at hand. There is no grading or real post in these stills. I am just interested in what these very helpful guys are doing and exploring all avenues. So thanks for your observations Andrew but they don't really help.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:50 pm

I said this because I worked in authoring house for 8 years. I know at least a bit what I'm talking about :) Many projects were "classics" restored by Criterion/Arrow and others. Grain management was a very hot topic on these titles and I saw tons of different examples of restoration.
If you cover your deinterlaced video with thick layer of grain then quality of deinterlacing losses its importance a lot.
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 9:58 pm

I understand Andrew and it is part of the problem with the anonymous internet - I've been a professional editor in broadcast TV and film for over 30 years, so I too have the conceit to assume I know a little of what I'm talking about. I use professional encoding products and I am well aware of their limits, dos and don'ts. But I am impressed that you worked with Criterion classics, so I am open to any helpful suggestions you have, thank you.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 1:46 am

There are anyway jaggies artifacts visible in last example from Avid. It looks "better" because it is a different scene with less clipping, less contrast.

Here are at least 3 mistakes i found that probably you never see:
1. Grain added in post. It is very confusing. Why post example with grain filter if you only want to check deinterlace quality and ask to compare it with other tools?
2. It is very strange for me that all exported stills are exported with wrong levels ("full" instead of "video") Or it is Avid just don't do proper conversion on image export? This produce contrast loss, blacks are not black and image looks dull. In some situations it may work well as special effect, but just make sure you control this thing.
3. It seems you don't add 601 to 709 conversion, (or Avid didn't do it automatically), so colors in your exported image looks shifted and don't match to original source. Or maybe color is different due different light conditions in different frame.
4. 256 color PNG posted in first post as example.

"over TV and film for over 30 years", yeah great.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 2:48 am

Hi Steve, here is another version (different algorithm):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/74m5so0xrxvzn ... Q.mp4?dl=0

Please note that this is 50p since the smooth motion is there from the interlaced source. If you want it to be 25p, just drop it into a timeline with 25p in Resolve and don't let DR change the timeline.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 3:10 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you have SD masters then I see 0 point upscaling them- waste fo time, resource, space, streaming bitrate etc. Most current TVs have quite good upscalers, so you gain not much.
Only time when it makes sense is if you do some HD work and need to use shots which are available only as SD.

I don't agree. As you can see from examples and tests viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259#p607797 even upscaling to 720p with NNEDI3 can make huge difference and fix problems with low quality chroma. Upscale to 1080p adds further sharpness in details. Upscale to QHD and UHD4K may add tiny amount of quality, but in reality it is useless and file sizes are too huge. The main problem - there is just not enough pixels data in compressed x264/265 SD for quality resize in realtime. Also it is always will be confusion with Rec601-709 colors that some players can read and some can't. Add same titles, effects, fine grain, textures in HD and you got totally different looking quality remastered movie from same SD source...
So it is always better to keep SD file sources untouched but do final delivery in HD.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 5:07 am

I second upscaling from SD to HD.
I made a few tests with good camera material on my Samsung, which even claims to have 'Neural Network' upscaling. While the difference from HD to UHD is hard to see between the internal one and a file upscaled externally, the difference from SD to externally generated HD is night and day. SD upscaled by the TV is very soft, and if I upscale by software, which is not realtime even on a decent computer, it looks much better.
An important factor is good deinterlacing, of course.
Watching a DVD with interlaced material on such a TV is no joy, while movies in 24p are bearable from a normal viewing distance.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 8:47 am

There are anyway jaggies artefacts visible in last example from Avid. It looks "better" because it is a different scene with less clipping, less contrast.


No the still with grain is a quick and dirty approximation of where it's ending up, how it looks best to me, your examples just look over processed for me. The last examples are definitely mapped 16-235, they are not remapped but they are not graded or clamped to legal levels, so the gamut may exceed those levels. Yes Avid converts from 601>709, when you change format, so of course there is a shift from the original. I only sent pngs on the first lot.

The real problem is Hybrid's not working for me on Windows - I've followed your instructions to the letter but output files just keep on growing with no end until I kill them. I've decided just to deinterlace in Avid, export SD to Resolve Studio, via AAF, superscale, denoise, sharpen, CC, grain etc., back to Avid for online finishing, export.

"over TV and film for over 30 years", yeah great.


Sadly it's all too true. But if you're suggesting I'm clueless, then maybe you're right but I'm not a compression specialist, so I claim immunity :lol: I do really appreciate your help though, thanks.

Hi Steve, here is another version (different algorithm):


Thanks Uli - I'll have a look
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 9:41 am

Thanks ULi, that looks very good but there's some interline twitter, you can see it on the face. Inevitably there are always tradeoffs, so I've come to the conclusion what ever will be slightly soft, but I agree with you given I can uprez all other elements a 16mm type image looks vastly better than the original SD, to my eyes anyway. And since I intend to do a DVD version too (still 60% of the market apparently) it will be interesting to see if the resulting master looks better downconverted. The original DVD version I issued was OK but I think I can improve mpeg 2 compression.

Interestingly about the grain Andrew mentioned, I've bought some classic Blu Rays recently, the 'remastered in 4K' kind. One Jean Cocteau's, La Bellet et Bete, was scanned in 5K by SCN France, from the original negative and I can definitely see added grain - it doesn't look massively sharp either. I have never seen a problem with good quality VBR encoding and film grain . A majority of Blu Rays out there must be from 35mm, and often interpositives or even release prints.

Thanks once again guys.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 10:20 am

Real film grain encodes way easier than fake digitally generated one. They have different nature.
Never heard of people adding fake grain to film scans as those always have rather too much grain. It's always opposite- they de-grain it. Then it's just a matter how much to remove.
You would be surprised how many BDs (specially in first years) were done from crap masters (some from SD !). It's all down to money as new scan+good restoration cost a lot. This is why quite often new masters are done in collaboration between few companies which then release it separately on their teritories.
Some film based masters are not sharp at as they simply don't carry real details. Not sure why.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 10:45 am

Dmitry Shijan wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you have SD masters then I see 0 point upscaling them- waste fo time, resource, space, streaming bitrate etc. Most current TVs have quite good upscalers, so you gain not much.
Only time when it makes sense is if you do some HD work and need to use shots which are available only as SD.

I don't agree. As you can see from examples and tests viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259#p607797 even upscaling to 720p with NNEDI3 can make huge difference and fix problems with low quality chroma. Upscale to 1080p adds further sharpness in details. Upscale to QHD and UHD4K may add tiny amount of quality, but in reality it is useless and file sizes are too huge. The main problem - there is just not enough pixels data in compressed x264/265 SD for quality resize in realtime. Also it is always will be confusion with Rec601-709 colors that some players can read and some can't. Add same titles, effects, fine grain, textures in HD and you got totally different looking quality remastered movie from same SD source...
So it is always better to keep SD file sources untouched but do final delivery in HD.


Maybe if you do complex and time consuming process using tools like QTGMC then you could justify it. It's then just a matter of time and money. If I give you 2000 hours of SD masters and say I want HD in a week time, how much will you charge me?

In real world it looks like this (real case). A company tried to sell 100 masters to B company. They claimed it's all HD. In reality only 30% was HD. They upscaled SD (badly or I should say in typical way: Premiere, AVID etc.). Problem is that client B noticed this straight away and rejected. On bigger scale no one is going to waste time (like you) and make as optimal as possible conversion from SD to HD, so then whole process is pointless. You simply release it as SD. It all gets compressed quite heavily anyway before it hits end client. No one is going to watch intermediate masters.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 11:11 am

Made one without the clipping, it came from the fact that VEAI is working in sRGB (after all their origin is in photography). This is about as good as it gets: https://www.dropbox.com/s/amemep2w5n5p1 ... a.mp4?dl=0
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 2:02 pm

Some film based masters are not sharp at as they simply don't carry real details. Not sure why.


It's because 35mm sources used for txfr in a majority of cases are from release prints that have nowhere near the resolution of the negative. I simply don't believe that 35mm film from more than 20 years ago has anywhere near 4K resolution, oversampling makes sense but that's not the same as saying it's 4k +. Plus film has detail in a different way to video.

Never heard of people adding fake grain to film scans as those always have rather too much grain.


I can see why it would happen - it's easy to denoise a digital image to point of it looking plastic and it's possible that you might want to add it back - I'd swear that what's happened to that Cocteau film because it does not look organic at all. In any case I'm planning to add a real very fine grained film overlay, not a digitally generated one.

I agree totally with you about time versus effort. This is a lockdown project, but paid work is imminent and that's what my facility is there for. I can't use this time consuming method. So the best that Avid Symphony and Resolve Studio can offer, will have to be it.
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Re: VapourSynth + QTGMC Deinterlace + Hybrid FAQ for macOS

PostSun Apr 26, 2020 2:06 pm

Made one without the clipping, it came from the fact that VEAI is working in sRGB


Thanks Uli, but it's still got twitter, it just wouldn't pass QC. Well done for your efforts though, appreciated.
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