Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

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Mel Matsuoka

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Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostWed Aug 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Can we get a definitive explanation as to why LG OLED TVs will not display video sent to it directly from an UltraStudio/Decklink Mini Monitor unit (both Thunderbolt and PCIe)?

Is there a flaw in the HDMI implementation of the Mini Monitor units, or is it because of a flaw in the way LG interprets the HDMI signal from these units?

While it's good that there's a workaround for this (either putting an active HDMI splitter box, or using an SDI->HDMI converter box like the AJA Hi5, in between the Mini Monitor and LG input), it's a big problem that this issue is not made more clear to potential buyers of these units, many of whom are "civilian" clients of mine who want to use them for remote review sessions.
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Baz

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostThu Aug 20, 2020 12:46 am

Anything LG is bad. LG stands for "Low Grade" and should be avoided at all costs.

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Ellory Yu

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostThu Aug 20, 2020 4:28 pm

Baz wrote:Anything LG is bad. LG stands for "Low Grade" and should be avoided at all costs.

You must have bad experiences with LG products. Sorry to hear that but LG quality is pretty superior in many cases over Samsung and Sony. My LG OLED display works just fine with the Decklink 4K Mini Monitor (PCI-e version). I understand you're being sarcastic but just to be clear LG stands for "Life is Good".
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostThu Aug 20, 2020 11:14 pm

”Life is Good” is just a recent tagline. LG was previously Lucky-Goldstar.
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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Aug 21, 2020 1:43 am

Baz wrote:Anything LG is bad. LG stands for "Low Grade" and should be avoided at all costs.


I think there are many Hollywood color-grading and post facilities who would strongly disagree with you.

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Jack Fairley

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Aug 21, 2020 5:59 pm

Indeed, calibrated OLED LG TVs are very common as client monitors in color suites. Blackmagic's HDMI implementations have been derided many times on the forum, but I've never had an issue with monitoring output.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostSun Aug 23, 2020 9:52 pm

Mel Matsuoka wrote:Can we get a definitive explanation as to why LG OLED TVs will not display video sent to it directly from an UltraStudio/Decklink Mini Monitor unit (both Thunderbolt and PCIe)?

Is there a flaw in the HDMI implementation of the Mini Monitor units, or is it because of a flaw in the way LG interprets the HDMI signal from these units?

While it's good that there's a workaround for this (either putting an active HDMI splitter box, or using an SDI->HDMI converter box like the AJA Hi5, in between the Mini Monitor and LG input), it's a big problem that this issue is not made more clear to potential buyers of these units, many of whom are "civilian" clients of mine who want to use them for remote review sessions.


HDMI issues on some BM products are not related only to LG. It's quite common issue (just search this forum). An active HDMI splitter/repeater (one which generates new EDID) should solve the problem.
It's quite annoying that it was never fixed, even if we had countless firmware updates on BM cards. Maybe it can't be fixed with firmware update.
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acravens

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostThu Oct 08, 2020 9:40 pm

I recently set up a client monitor in the following config. Macbook Pro 2019 > TB3 to TB2 adapter > BM Ultrastudio Mini Monitor (the old one) > quality 25 foot HDMI cable > LG OLED48CXPUB. I'm trying to pass 23.976 1080 PsF signal from Premiere to the client monitor. Mac is on Mojave 10.14.6 / Premiere is 14.0.4 (build 18) / BM Desktop Video is 11.6. Firmware on TV is updated to latest version. No combination of settings on the TV I've tried and no combination of settings on Desktop Video software I've tried will result in signal passing to the LG properly. It will display a still when parked on a still, otherwise playback is badly distorted. I can also create bars & tones within the same project and they playback fine from the source monitor. If I connect the same HDMI cable to an old 720p Vizio LCD, playback works without a hitch. I called into BM support and they are stumped so here I am. Has anybody else been able to make this particular config work? Can anyone recommend a specific HDMI splitter / adapter that will alleviate this issue affordably? I am currently loaning my buddy the TB2 Ultrastudio Mini Monitor as the new TB3 version is backordered. Does anyone know if this particular issue is likely to be resolved with the new adapter? Any help greatly appreciated.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 1:59 am

acravens wrote: I'm trying to pass 23.976 1080 PsF signal from Premiere to the client monitor.


23.976PsF is 47.952 interlaced. Its a relatively rare/old format, I wouldn't extpect most modern monitors to support it natively.

.......and looking at the manual, 50i, 59.94i, and 60i, are good to go, 47.952i or 48i, no dice.

Have you tried straight 23.976P? That resolution is supported.

Good Luck

Interlaced.jpg
Interlaced.jpg (13.61 KiB) Viewed 625 times
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Uli Plank

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 2:06 am

HDMI is flawed, like many if its implementations.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 4:13 pm

Howard Roll wrote:
acravens wrote: I'm trying to pass 23.976 1080 PsF signal from Premiere to the client monitor.


23.976PsF is 47.952 interlaced. Its a relatively rare/old format, I wouldn't extpect most modern monitors to support it natively.

.......and looking at the manual, 50i, 59.94i, and 60i, are good to go, 47.952i or 48i, no dice.

Have you tried straight 23.976P? That resolution is supported.

Good Luck

Interlaced.jpg


There is no such a thing like 23.976psf in HDMI world. psf is a SDI related "format"- nothing to do with HDMI.
This is basically 23.976p on HDMI.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Uli Plank wrote:HDMI is flawed, like many if its implementations.


Is it?
What about 100s of millions of devices from thousands manufactures which use HDMI and work fine between each other.
BM's HDMI implementation on some devices is broken, not HDMI itself.
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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 10:44 pm

I am using the Decklink Mini Monitor and also a Decklink SDK 4k in a machine with Vmix. The Decklink Mini Monitor will not feed a Kramer VP732 switch but it feeds all the monitor I have. My partner today tried a Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter and same results. He called Kramer and they said its not an EDID issue. Anyone have any thoughts?

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Uli Plank

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 2:18 am

HDMI works fine in the consumer world – until you choose the wrong combination of devices.
But it's far from a professional standard and was never intended to be one. If it were, SDI would have died out by now.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 8:04 pm

This is a different subject if it's suitable for use in cameras etc. Also this limitations are related to physical properties of the format, not really protocol itself.
BM is almost "famous" now for its problems with HDMI compatibility. Other manufactures have no problem achieving 99%+ compatibility.
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acravens

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostWed Oct 14, 2020 2:41 am

So I had another go at making this work this afternoon with truly maddening results. I backrevved the BM drivers 3 versions trying each one within premiere, trying different resolutions- no dice. I installed resolve and also tried different resolutions and drivers - no dice. I tried a multitude of hdmi cables -no dice. I inserted an HD fury in the mix to impact the EDID - no dice. I tried a powered monoprice 4x1 splitter, no dice. After all this tinkering, I plug in the dinky vizio 720p tv - works flawlessly under both premiere and resolve. I connect an hdmi cable from a TB3 hub to extend the desktop to the LG - works flawlessly. My buddy hooks up a little lighting to HDMI adapter from his phone to the LG - works flawlessly. Not understanding the problem here. BM box? / TV? Has anyone made this particular combination work? If you have using an active splitter as some have suggested, can you please share a specific link to where I can purchase one. Surely a system integrator has encountered this issue as I would contest 23.976 1080p is a very common cutting format. I've toggled PsF to P till the cows come home and that ain't it either. Is using an SDI to HDMI converter necessary like I used to have to do back in the day with a Panasonic plasma? If I sound a little crazy & unhinged it's because I am. Wasted so much time on this!!!!!!
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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostWed Oct 14, 2020 9:05 pm

acravens wrote:If you have using an active splitter as some have suggested, can you please share a specific link to where I can purchase one.


I can confirm that this splitter works with the Thunderbolt Mini Monitor and the LG C8:

https://www.amazon.com/HD-102-Powered-S ... B005HXFARS
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acravens

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostWed Oct 21, 2020 5:09 pm

Thank you for the link Mel! A user in another forum recommended this one to me and we purchased and I'm happy to report it works perfectly with my LG B9:

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Blackb ... SA452?th=1

I'm going to test it on the LG CX later this afternoon but I suspect it will work on that one too. It's irritating that this is necessary, but thankful that there was an affordable solution.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostFri Oct 23, 2020 6:33 am

Yes, the EDID copy protection ("Extended Display Identification Data") is supposed to ensure a legitimate signal path from source to monitor, but a popular theory is that it was really intended to stop consumers from copying -- say -- a DVD or Blu-ray disc to a capture device or a standalone recorder. There are HDMI splitters that magically remove the EDID, and that solves the problem.

What I see sometimes even with computer displays with a single cable going directly to the HDMI output, sometimes the display momentarily glitches, the picture goes away, then it comes back a second later. It's an annoyance we don't have with DVI, Thunderbolt, and similar connectors. HDMI is just flakey, period. It can work, but it's not 100% reliable.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostSat Oct 24, 2020 1:49 pm

EDIS has nothing to do with copy protection at all.
BM's HDMI reliability rate is way below any "other" HDMI equipped device- this is the problem- not HDMI standard itself.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostTue Oct 27, 2020 2:41 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:EDIS has nothing to do with copy protection at all.

Well, there is a restriction on consumer HDMI devices that are prevented from recording from an HDMI source. It also does "verify" the legitimacy of the HDMI connection, and for that reason I've seen cases where monitors are just dead in the water if you try to use an HDMI extension cable. Stripping out the EDIS signal with an HDMI splitter has eliminated these problems for us (at least, most of the time). I can point you to dozens of similar complaints over on the AVS Forum, particularly from users trying to provide HDMI connections on a wall plate.

The bottom line is that HDMI is a flakey connection. HD-SDI overcomes a lot of those problems and can also be extended dozens of feet longer without any problems. It'd be nice if LG made a "semi-pro" version of their OLED monitors with HD-SDI connections right out of the box and got rid of HDMI entirely... but at the moment, they say that market is too small for them to warrant doing it.
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostTue Oct 27, 2020 8:26 am

That's HDCP. EDID lets other devices know the properties/capabilities of a device.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Are the "Mini Monitor"s flawed, or are LG TVs flawed?

PostWed Oct 28, 2020 10:13 am

Marc Wielage wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:EDIS has nothing to do with copy protection at all.

Well, there is a restriction on consumer HDMI devices that are prevented from recording from an HDMI source....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ ... ation_Data
not a word about copy protection.

You are talking HDCP which BM cards don't even touch.
If people trying to pass HDCP (eg. pass 1 signal into 2 devices without proper splitter) they will have plenty problems- it's obvious :) Most HDMI problems are typically related to HDCP.

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