Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

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Alek74

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Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm

Hi everybody,

For many years I have been using Canon HF200. According to set up:

Recording System Movies: AVCHD Video compression: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

Television System 1080/50i*

* Recordings made with the [PF25] frame rate are converted and recorded on the memory as 50i.
[Frame Rate][50i (Standard)], [PF25] ]
[Frame Rate]: Selects the frame rate to be used when recording.[ PF25]: 25 frames per second, progressive. Using this frame rate will give your recordings a cinematic look. When combined with the [Cine Mode] recording program (61), the cinematic look will be enhanced.

Now how can I find out if I set it to 50i whether PF25?

How should I treat the files in DR16? Are both option interlaced or not? 50i is interlaced but what about PF25? It is supposed to be progressive but converted and recorded on the memory as 50i....so how I should deal with it? In the case of 50i in project settings I should click "enable video field processing" and in deliver "enable fields". What about PF25?
I would be grateful for your help. My system is PAL, in US you have 60i and PF30 options.

Greetings,

Alek
PS Today I have opened 2 files from my HF200 in VLC player, one recorded as 50i and another one as PF25. Then turned off deinterlacing in VLC, played 50i and paused the clip during fast motion, clicked print screen and pasted into Fastone Image Viewer and zoomed to 200-500%. The same was done for PF25. In the case of 50i I saw a terrible comb effect and in the case of PF25, some motion blur was visible, not comb effect. So it seems 50i is really interlaced footage and PF 25 is progressive. So in the case of 50i I should set (click) enable video field rendering "on" and in deliver frame rendering "on" to render without any changes, yes? What about PF25 in order to render as progressive? I should not set (click) enable video field rendering "on" nor in deliver " frame rendering" "on" to render as progressive, yes?. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Last edited by Alek74 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ole Kristiansen

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 5:31 pm

Had some old Canon HF200 footage lying around! They are with Progressive Frames 25!

Here is MediaInfo of the recordings! When I load the footage into Davinci Resolve 17 and let Davinci choose - it seems that Davinci resolves correctly in terms of timeline setup!
Attachments
Canon HF200.jpg
Canon HF200.jpg (220.07 KiB) Viewed 636 times
Last edited by Ole Kristiansen on Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ole Kristiansen

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 5:32 pm

In Davinci Resolve !
Attachments
DR.jpg
DR.jpg (143.27 KiB) Viewed 636 times
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 9:52 pm

Ole Kristiansen wrote:Had some old Canon HF200 footage lying around! They are with Progressive Frames 25!

Here is MediaInfo of the recordings! When I load the footage into Davinci Resolve 17 and let Davinci choose - it seems that Davinci resolves correctly in terms of timeline setup!

Thank you for the sample.
But I do not get it. In MediaInfo it is written 25 fps, and below in scan options as interlaced and with fields. In DR17 it shows 50 fields per second and sugesting enable interlace processing as in the case of typical 50i. So for me it is even more confused now....:(
Tomorrow I shall record the same scene in both PF25 and 50i and upload MediaInfo. I wonder if there are the same or not and if some information from the software , i.e. MI, is correct.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 2:24 am

It's easy to check it: make a timeline with 50 fps. Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing. Drop the clip on that timeline.
Now step though the timeline frame-by-frame. If you see two identical frames it's 1080p25. If you see two distinct ones it's 1080i25.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.1.1 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.14.6
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 10:58 am

Uli Plank wrote:It's easy to check it: make a timeline with 50 fps. Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing. Drop the clip on that timeline.
Now step though the timeline frame-by-frame. If you see two identical frames it's 1080p25. If you see two distinct ones it's 1080i25.

Hmm, I shall check today. But 1080i25? Why? In manual it is written it should be either 50i (normal) or PF25 recorded on memory as 50i.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 4:13 pm

There is no I/50, which would mean 100 fields. 50i and I/25 is the same, the latter is the official nomenclature by EBU, like in 1080i/25.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.1.1 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.14.6
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Howard Roll

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 4:24 pm

PsF is a Progressive segmented Frame, ergo it's always interlaced. The difference is primarily a question of when, for straight 50i the odd and even fields are scanned consecutively, for PF recording they are scanned concurrently.

The motion cadence should be a dead giveaway, technically there's only the difference of a tag.

Good Luck
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 10:02 pm

Uli Plank wrote:It's easy to check it: make a timeline with 50 fps. Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing. Drop the clip on that timeline.
Now step though the timeline frame-by-frame. If you see two identical frames it's 1080p25. If you see two distinct ones it's 1080i25.

What about playback frame rate? Also 50? Or 25?
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostFri Jan 15, 2021 10:36 pm

Alek74 wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:It's easy to check it: make a timeline with 50 fps. Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing. Drop the clip on that timeline.
Now step though the timeline frame-by-frame. If you see two identical frames it's 1080p25. If you see two distinct ones it's 1080i25.

What about playback frame rate? Also 50? Or 25?

I checked, you are right, in the case of 50i one can observe a very clear comb effect and in the case of PF25 some blur is visible. The difference is clear.
Thank you.
When I started to record movies using the Canon I set it in PF25 and did not change the settings for a few years and even if I changed it was a change to check something. From my standpoint it was beneficial since for sure I used to keep the setting for a long time like holiday travel etc. Then I changed it into 50i but there is not a big problem, I now can just check on a few clips which option/setting was used.
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostSun Feb 14, 2021 5:52 pm

Uli Plank wrote:It's easy to check it: make a timeline with 50 fps. Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing. Drop the clip on that timeline.
Now step though the timeline frame-by-frame. If you see two identical frames it's 1080p25. If you see two distinct ones it's 1080i25.

Not vice versa?
I recorded both in PF25 and 50i. When I made a timeline with 50 fps for 50i footage, I set Clip Attributes to deniterlacing and nothing happened, then I unclicked Set your Clip Attributes to deinterlacing so it was "off" and then it was clear the footage was recorded as 50i - a very clear comb effect. So it works but deinterlacing should be "off". Enable video field processing was "off" then changed ito "on" and in both cases a comb effect was clear. So all in all it can be checked which footage is which.
Alek
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Uli Plank

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostMon Feb 15, 2021 1:47 am

Are we talking about DR 16 or 17 here? De-interlacing has been improved in 17. It works very much like After Effects now: you can de-interlace into twice the number of frames for your timeline, do whatever you like just as you would work with progressive recordings and re-interlace on output, if needed. Or keep 50/60 fps.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.1.1 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.14.6
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostMon Feb 15, 2021 9:52 am

DR16.
The topic is on determining/checking whether the files are 50i or PF25. It is very necessary to know in order to undertake appropriate steps to deal properly with them - to treat them as progressive or not.
I have set timeline in 50 frames per seconds as proposed and then play them. In the evening I shall attach a few files to show you what I have to check.
Uli Plank wrote:Are we talking about DR 16 or 17 here? De-interlacing has been improved in 17. It works very much like After Effects now: you can de-interlace into twice the number of frames for your timeline, do whatever you like just as you would work with progressive recordings and re-interlace on output, if needed. Or keep 50/60 fps.
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Alek74

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Re: Canon Legria/Vixia HF200

PostMon Apr 05, 2021 7:38 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Are we talking about DR 16 or 17 here? De-interlacing has been improved in 17. It works very much like After Effects now: you can de-interlace into twice the number of frames for your timeline, do whatever you like just as you would work with progressive recordings and re-interlace on output, if needed. Or keep 50/60 fps.

Could you write what to do exactly and where to click what is necessary to remove interlace by neural engine in DR17? Do you hany any experience with DR17 deinterlacing vs other methods?
Thank you in advance.
Alek

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