Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

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mauricesteenbergen

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Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostFri Sep 27, 2013 11:53 am

Browsing trough the forum I'm not yet really convinced that the RS422 is working really well on the Hyperdeck Studio series.

I would love to get a computerless edit setup with a vintage Sony PVE-500 or RM-450 to perform 2 or 3 deck edits using in/out/assemble. It's nice to be focussed on story, image, and not on dealing with a mouse, software etc.

Can anyone tell me if this is possible?
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Baz

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostSat Sep 28, 2013 1:02 am

The Hyperdeck Studio sort of works.

Unfortunately the software engineers who wrote the code for the Hyperdeck studio got lazy and bypassed a few VITAL status informations.

1. STATUS BYTE 2 bit 0 - "CUE UP COMPLETE"
As the Hyperdeck always instantly cues up they have set the 'cued' status to be PERMANENTLY ON. This is wrong!
The deck is only 'cued' after it is sent the cue command and it has cued. Once moved off the cue (eg play) it is no longer 'cued'. That totally confuses the edit controller.

2. STATUS BYTE 4 bit 0 - "PREROLL OR CUE UP"

The 'Cueing' status never gets set on the Hyperdeck. When the edit controller sends a cue command the first thing it does is to check if the deck IS cueing. When it doesn't see the status it aborts its automatic process that it was trying to do.

I built a small box that I put in between the Hyperdeck and the edit controller to emulate the correct status bytes but lazy software needs to be fixed as follows...

1. Only set CUED status IF the deck has been asked to cue and then reset it if moved off the cue point.

2. Once a 'cue' command is received, SET the CUEING status for about 120mS and then clear it just so the edit controller senses its request is being carried out.

Back in the early '80's I did a lot of consultancy work for a large Japanese company who were adopting the Sony P2 rs422 protocol as they had made a dogs breakfast out of it. Then I was asked to do the same for a large (now defunct) US company to which they ended up abandoning it and went their own way; maybe that's why they don't exist anymore.

anyhow, thats my 4 cents worth.

Baz

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mauricesteenbergen

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostSat Sep 28, 2013 8:58 am

Wow Baz,

Thank you for this very detailed analysis of the problem. I hope the Blackmagic engineers appreciate this and will fix this, it would give the Hyperdeck a lot more functionality.

I'll pass on the whole idea of Oldschool editing with new video standards for now, until it gets fixed ... if ever.

Thanks again,
Maurice.
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Kriss Rozins

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostTue Aug 18, 2020 1:33 pm

Hello!

Have there been any updates regarding the Hyperdeck Studio RS-422 problem?
It's been 7 years now and I was wondering if any of the firmware updates released over these years have made it possible to use Hyperdeck Studio as an assamble-edit-capable recorder when hooked up in a linear editing system with an external editing controller (e.g. Sony RM-450CE) ?

My goal is to set up a system that allows digitizing of Betacam tapes straight to ProRes files with deck control, so that desired segments (TC in-out) of source tape are digitized frame-accurately.

Thanks!

Regards,
Kriss
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Kriss Rozins

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostSun Sep 12, 2021 8:28 pm

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if for the new versions of Hyperdeck recorders that came out this year BMD fixed the problem with RS422?

Best,
Kriss
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Video7105

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 9:53 pm

Hey Kriss
Maybe I can shed some light on what your asking. I recently took delivery of the Hyperdeck HD Pro. I made this purchase for archiving all my tape related media, onto a SSD Hard Drive. Eventually discard the stacks of tapes. It is my impression, that Assemble Edit, means the gathering of all your rough cuts as they were shot.

So I have 2 choices with the new Hyperdeck via SDI, from my DVCAM and Beta Decks

I can either just play my tape and let the Hyperdeck copy the whole tape of the old footage shot, which will give me a single Hyperdeck File.....
This setup has the Beta Deck SDI running into the Hyperdeck, and the edit controller's RS422 connection to the Beta Deck starting and stopping the tape, because the Hyperdeck record is being activated by the timecode being received. This is how you'd just play the whole tape and the Hyperdeck would save it a a single file.

Your second choice is having Hyperdeck record only when receiving Timecode mode, as above. But now record each clip as individual files. Which is my choice. Since all my tapes are already documented with Date/Location/Subject Matter in a long hard written format.

By using choice 2, I am able, via Edit Controller, using the RS422 connection, I can preroll a clip, taking away maybe parts of the beginning and end of the tape clip and only recording the part I want, via the Edit Controller. You use the edit controller as normal, because the Hyperdeck isn't going to start its record until the Beta Deck, starts sending video. Which will give you individual Hyperdeck files

This setup has the Beta Deck SDI running into the Hyperdeck, and the edit controller's RS422 connection to the Beta Deck starting and stopping the tape via assemble edit, because the Hyperdeck only starts recording when the timecode being received. The RS422 commands are telling the deck when to start and stop, via edit in and out point via the edit controller. So if you have a 5 sec preroll, the Hyperdeck doesn't see the record trigger, until the preroll ends and a signal is sent to it and when the edit out happens, the deck stops because th controller stopped it and the Hyperdeck stops, because the signal has ended

Now for the last way of assemble edit as am familiar with is where you want to take cuts out of the clip and you want to edit the pieces together. I see no way of doing that, unless you take the individual clips from the Hyperdeck and bring them into some editing program, i.e. Davinci Resolve, free version and output your edited timeline to the Hyperdeck. The reason being every time the Hyperdeck starts and stops in a clip, it makes it a new file. I understand your thoughts on a complete digital deck, with prerolls, assemble, inserts etc. But the present hyperdeck can't do that, because the way for these individual file being saved, on start and stops

As for me, I have the Hyperdeck SDI In connected to my DeckLink 4K Extreme from my Davinci Resolve and the HDMI In, connected via a SDI to HDMI Blackmagic Convertor, which comes SDI from my decks

Hope that helps, for the purpose I bought the Hyperdeck, it does all I wanted it to do. But that is how I incorporated my RM450 into the Hyperdeck work flow.

Dave
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Kriss Rozins

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 12:45 pm

Hi Dave,

Thanks for sharing your experience!

So you are saying Hyperdeck will start recording when it sees incoming timecode from SDI running and not when it receives a command via RS422 from edit controller to be in standby while the deck is prerolling and begin the actual recording after tape preroll has finished (the deck has reached the actual marked inpoint)?

In that case I assume the Hyperdeck would start recording while the deck is still prerolling which is 5 secs (or whatever has been set) too early.

Or am I not getting something here?

Best,
Kriss
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Alessandro Machi

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Re: Oldschool editing with RS422 & Hyperdeck

PostSun Oct 08, 2023 8:20 am

For us Archivists that want to squeeze every last bit of quality from their original VHS or S-VHS source tapes while it is playing, but BEFORE the signal is converted to digital, it is heartbreaking to not be able to offer an RSS-422 option in which the source VHS machine can be synced to a high quality Digital recording device.
Not all outdated Videotape formats are created equal. The difference between Betacam Sp and the VHS format world is so profound that Betacam Sp can be transferred flat in many cases and then corrected in the Digital realm.
However, whatever improvements that are made to a VHS signal while the tape is in playback mode, but before being converted to digital, would give digital creatives a superior signal to work with in the digital realm.
Do I really have to do my VHS corrections while RS-422 editing from VHS to Betacam SP because no other viable inter format digital sync option exists?

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