Blackmagic Forum

hello,

My current pc that I use for editing is in repair and could very well not make it through. This means I’m in the market for a pic that edit 12:1 BRAW footage (15min short).

My old pic had 8 cores, 32GB of RAM and a RX580 GPU. Edited the footage like a dream.

What would be the minimum specs that Id need to edit my 12:1 BRAW footage? I’m prepared to accept a slower workflow as well as me having to use proxy files to edit. My main priority right now is that it’s as cheap as possible (refurbished if needs be) as well as gauranteed to get the job done (grading, rendering etc.)

Any help or direct recommendations is super appreciated.

Just another note: I’m filming with an Ursa Mini Pro so my BRAW will be 4.6K (16:9).

I also have a few shots that will be 60fps.

https://spartanoutlet.com/products/dell ... gKByfD_BwE

would this do the job?

Not really, at least not for UHD.
Do you desperately need a laptop? A desktop PC would get you a much better price/performance ratio.

If it must be a laptop, look to the other side. Even the current M1 entry-level machines by Apple are impressive.

The M1 is indeed impressive. In some informal internal testing here on a new upcoming release of Blackmagic RAW we saw in comparison to a couple years old iMac Pro :

M1 Mac Mini's CPU (8-core) decoding is on par with the iMac Pro's 18-core Intel Xeon
M1 Mac Mini's GPU outperforms the iMac Pro's Radeon Vega 64 (but only just)

In essence we saw a $2,000AUD Mac Mini M1 perform about the same as an $10,000AUD iMac Pro (with Blackmagic RAW) which is very impressive for the M1.

CaptainHook wrote:The M1 is indeed impressive. In some informal internal testing here on a new upcoming release of Blackmagic RAW we saw in comparison to a couple years old iMac Pro :

M1 Mac Mini's CPU (8-core) decoding is on par with the iMac Pro's 18-core Intel Xeon
M1 Mac Mini's GPU outperforms the iMac Pro's Radeon Vega 64 (but only just)

In essence we saw a $2,000AUD Mac Mini M1 perform about the same as an $10,000AUD iMac Pro (with Blackmagic RAW) which is very impressive for the M1.

This is exciting. I hope to hear more about this upcoming release. With the difficulty of finding and acquiring an Nvidia 3080ti card to replace my older GPU, I am now thinking of buying a Mac mini M1 with 8 core cpu/gpu, 16Gb of RAM, and 1tb storage to get by. This upcoming release you think will be a game changer and can do 4K DCI, that’s nice.

Wait for Monday. Some rumors predict first a laptop and only later a mini with stronger GPU.
The current M1 models can handle BRAw pretty well, but are limited in GPU power. A 3080 would be stronger for now, but as you wrote: how do we find one outside of the mines?

Uli Plank wrote:Wait for Monday. Some rumors predict first a laptop and only later a mini with stronger GPU.

Terrific! A mini M1 with a stronger GPU will definitely be sweet.

Uli Plank wrote:A 3080 would be stronger for now, but as you wrote: how do we find one outside of the mines?

I've just been watching a few online resellers to notify but they are all SOLD OUT, or so they say. They now have the 3080Ti supposedly manufactured.

Uli Plank wrote:Not really, at least not for UHD.
Do you desperately need a laptop? A desktop PC would get you a much better price/performance ratio.

If it must be a laptop, look to the other side. Even the current M1 entry-level machines by Apple are impressive.

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/m ... gpu-256gb#

So the new 13inch Macbook air with 16GB unified memory (aka ram) should be able to handle 4.6K BRAW 12:1 compression?

What about the 13inch Macbook air with 8GB? Would that be able to edit 4.6K BRAW 12:1?

Do any of the older Macbook Airs / Pros work? It could be worth my while getting refurbished.

And to answer your question - yes in this case it has to be a laptop.

I'll test our MB Air 8 GB later today, it works nicely with 8:1, so it should do 12:1 as well. But don't expect it to be fully sufficient for DR. It can do some editing and mild grading on the road, which is impressive for the price and energy consumption. But for serious work (NR or optical flow speed changes for example) you'll need a strong desktop at home.

Obviously, Apple has supply problems like everybody else, so new machines are postponed. Since they secured their silicon delivery, it might be the rumored mini LED displays. The new iPads with such are hard to find too.

Yeah I know what you mean.

For my main editing I’m going to use this laptop: https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/medion- ... ersion.asp

It’s CPU and GPU are more powerful than the 2017-released laptop that I used to edit 4.6K BRAW before so this will 100% do the job for me. No desktop required.

I've tested one of those a while ago. It's good for HD and some limited 4K/UHD, but it's not a speed demon.
And then, it gets loud and eats batteries for breakfast, even if throttling massively when off mains.

I doubt it'll be much stronger than the MB Air M1. The MB Air M1 with only 8 GB RAM can handle full size 4.6K BRAW, 12:1 compression in an HD timeline for editing and some mild grading at 25 fps. It is rendering out from an UHD timeline with 2 frames temporal NR (better) without any problems, albeit really slow. All of this with no noise at all and a few hours off mains.

Uli Plank wrote:Wait for Monday. Some rumors predict first a laptop and only later a mini with stronger GPU.

There was nothing on the M1 last Monday. I think that was just about Apple software and not hardware. At least that's all they talked about to developers.

Uli Plank wrote:I've tested one of those a while ago. It's good for HD and some limited 4K/UHD, but it's not a speed demon.
And then, it gets loud and eats batteries for breakfast, even if throttling massively when off mains.

I doubt it'll be much stronger than the MB Air M1. The MB Air M1 with only 8 GB RAM can handle full size 4.6K BRAW, 12:1 compression in an HD timeline for editing and some mild grading at 25 fps. It is rendering out from an UHD timeline with 2 frames temporal NR (better) without any problems, albeit really slow. All of this with no noise at all and a few hours off mains.

Yeah I hear what you’re saying. I’ve also heard that it gets crazy hot and that brings down the peformance. Don’t think I’m going to buy it.

However I don’t know how you can say it’s “limited” when it has a more powerful GPU and CPU than the laptop that I successfully used to edit 4.6K BRAW and even CinemaDNG Uncompressed RAW back when I had the device working.

What do you think of this? It’s got a more powerful CPU than what I successfully used before and a GPU that’s only 16 speed rankings behind my former GPU on Userbenchmarks. Performance difference is between 20% less. It also has the 16GB of RAM. https://www.box.co.uk/Acer-Aspire-7-Int ... 57429.html

Surely if I went for this I’d be okay to edit a 15minute short film on 4.6K 12:1 BRAW? It’s been a while since I’ve edited so I’m not sure about what a 2K timeline actually does but I know you’ve mentioned that it can help. Surely I can edit the footage fine with this CPU and 16GB RAM and then apply some
basic colour grading?

Thanks for all your help btw.

@Ellory: many folks were disappointed, one guy even had to shave his goatee. A possible explication might be that Apple has been hit by supply chain issues too. Try to order one of the new iPads with micro LED screens. The new laptops were rumored to get these too.

@James: limited can have many meanings in the case of DR. You should be OK with that Acer laptop if you are doing your work in a HD timeline and only switch to 4K or UHD for rendering. And then, keep it on mains and walk away, they all get noisy. I’d say the current MB Air is more or less on par, but it has less noise and energy consumption and can decode a few more codecs in hardware. The latter doesn’t matter if you are working with BRAW only and rendering might be a bit faster if the GPU is not getting throttled when getting hot. The GPU on that Medion is throttling, BTW.

How do you know that the Medion’s GPU is going to be throttling? Doesn’t every GPU have a throttling point or no?

I tested it on mains and rendered a demanding NR. Was going longer than estimated at the beginning.
And it sounded like a vacuum cleaner on my lap

But on battery it's throttled anyway.

Uli Plank wrote:I tested it on mains and rendered a demanding NR. Was going longer than estimated at the beginning.
And it sounded like a vacuum cleaner on my lap

But on battery it's throttled anyway.

This is what I’m ordering tomorrow!

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail/?id ... b-17-w10-b

Processor is slightly better than my old machine that I used to edit and the GPU is also ranked slightly better on benchmarks.

Just one (probably stupidly obvious) question that I’d like to ask you before I order this tomorrow evening: I have a sequence in my film where the clips are 60FPS 4.6K 12:1 BRAW that are going to be slowed down on a 24fps timeline and I was just wondering - if I use a 2K timeline will my computer run the files as if they were 2K? I ask because I did some research and found that the GPU can handle 4.6K 12:1 50FPS according to someone’s Blackmagic Speedtest but it CANNOT handle 60FPS. CPU data not clear atm but it’s probably the same. I’m hoping that the 2K timeline will allow me to edit the 60FPS shots without any issues.

Thanks for all your advice!!!

EDIT: I might actually get this one instead as I’m not feeling too sure about the idea of editing on a second hand laptop incase something goes wrong or if the hardware has been worn about from previous use….. It also has a better CPU and GPU.

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/gaming/pc ... 5-pdt.html

Both of these are limited by their 6 GB of VRAM, while the difference in GPU power is not that much. I think screen quality and noise might be what you'll want to try before you buy. Anyway, you will not be able to do demanding tasks in 4K/UHD on either machine, but both should be fine for HD or 2K.

Regarding speed changes:
- If you just throw 60 fps into a 24 fps timeline, Resolve will take care of matching the speed to original motion. - If you want slo-mo, you can use all those frames you recorded.
- Resolve will use the full quality of the source independently of speed changes.

BUT if you want to use the best algorithms for speed changes that are not evenly divisible by integers, you'll have a hard time with that GPU. The temporal algorithms (optical flow) will probably have problems in UHD/4K. While editing, you can always switch to the lesser quality ("nearest" or "blend") for smooth playback and the better quality should be available in HD, but may render very slowly.

I honestly did not understand any of that tech-speak.

To break it down - you’re saying that using a 2K timeline will allow me to smoothly edit all my clips (60 & 24) even though the files are 4.6K 12:1 BRAW but it will be a long time to render.

And yes, I’m going to make the 60fps clips be slow motion clips.

Just redefine the slo-mo clips to 24 FPS in Clip Attributes and forget the tech-talk.
Rendering times will not be that long if you are only doing this and no demanding things like NR.

Uli Plank wrote:Just redefine the slo-mo clips to 24 FPS in Clip Attributes and forget the tech-talk.
Rendering times will not be that long if you are only doing this and no demanding things like NR.

I don’t even know what NR stands for!!!!!!!

Noise Reduction.

Uli Plank wrote:@Ellory: many folks were disappointed, one guy even had to shave his goatee. A possible explication might be that Apple has been hit by supply chain issues too. Try to order one of the new iPads with micro LED screens. The new laptops were rumored to get these too.

I hear that sometime in the Fall they will be announcing their new hardware. Meanwhile, I cannot find any GPU that I can replace my old ones with, particularly any of the 3080ti or 3090 ones. Such a bummer.

They are all toiling in the mines, while wasting energy resources.