Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

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Ellory Yu

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Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 1:35 am

The Apple M2 Mini Pro has 12 cpu Cores and 19 gpu cores with based 32gb ram and 512 SSD price at $1999. The M1 Studio Max has 10 cpu cores and 24 gpu cores with based 32gb ram and 512 SSD price at $1999 also. At this configuration, which will perform better with DVR studio?
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Robert Frank

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 1:58 am

Mac Studio M1 Max:
~ memory bandwidth 400GB/s
~ 2 Pro Res Encoders/decoders

Mac Mini M2 Pro:
~ memory bandwidth 200GB/s
~ 1 Pro Res Encoder/decoder


I would wait for some real world testing which will be reported everywhere soon.
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David DEVO Harry

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 9:05 am

Robert Frank wrote:Mac Studio M1 Max:
~ memory bandwidth 400GB/s
~ 2 Pro Res Encoders/decoders

Mac Mini M2 Pro:
~ memory bandwidth 200GB/s
~ 1 Pro Res Encoder/decoder


I would wait for some real world testing which will be reported everywhere soon.


I agree, waiting may be the best thing. Even with M1 things don’t scale as you’d expect and although M1 and M2 are ARM there may be differences that need seeing to. Even on iPad, M1 and M2 don’t behave as you’d expect and in certain instances M1 still has advantages, although on paper it shouldn’t.

Don’t forget, M2 still has similar limitations with bandwidth when scaling as M1 does, which is supposedly the main reason why Apple put a hold on the so called “extreme” version of M2 for the yet to be released Mac Pro.

You should also factor in the delays Apple have had with its own roadmap for ARM and the transition to it for all Mac lines and the knock on that such delays cause.

It also doesn’t help that Apple are seriously blurring the lines between certain lines of products and almost devaluing certain ones.

That’s said and all things being equal, all the M2 Minis look like they are going to be great little desktops, with the base Mini looking to be great value for money.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 4:05 am

I'd suppose a Mac mini M2 Pro will be a very attractive alternative to the Mac Studio – if it isn't prone to thermal throttling in its smaller case.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 6:15 am

Uli Plank wrote:I'd suppose a Mac mini M2 Pro will be a very attractive alternative to the Mac Studio – if it isn't prone to thermal throttling in its smaller case.

Yes it is an attractive alternative to the Max Studio if and only if at the same price point as presented in the post above yields a better performance too due to the M2 architecture. Which brings to the poster’s original question. I guess we will have to see reviews in the coming weeks starting with this one that wasn’t helpful and was made for the clicks.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 2:34 pm

I think until a new M2 Studio comes out (if at all), the sweet spot for this level of Mac Mini and Studio products for DVR is a Mac Studio M1 with 10 core CPU, 32 core GPU, 64Gb, 512Gb SSD at about the price of $2599. IMO, this probably makes the best price/performance value for creatives. I picked the low-end SSD because it will be mainly used for the OS and DVR Studio and save on cost. Large capacity and cheaper SSD than buying from Apple can be attached externally to one of the many Thunderbolts 4 ports for cache and data.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 2:42 pm

The main thing that makes me shy away from the Studio models is the high-pitched whine that many users have reported. It's not normal fan noise, but something much more annoying.

I've pretty much decided to wait for M3; my current desktop machine still meets all my needs but it can't be updated past Monterey so M3 should be ready by the time I want/need to switch.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 3:08 pm

This is an interesting article for Mac Studio owners who wants to set it up for best DVR performance, even though it’s for an SMB connection.
https://elements.tv/blog/mac-studio-bes ... onnection/
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 4:02 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:The main thing that makes me shy away from the Studio models is the high-pitched whine that many users have reported. It's not normal fan noise, but something much more annoying.

I've pretty much decided to wait for M3; my current desktop machine still meets all my needs but it can't be updated past Monterey so M3 should be ready by the time I want/need to switch.



I am used to sitting next to my PC and as far as I am concerned the Studio Max is absolutely silent. I cannot hear anything with my head right next to it.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 5:20 pm

SkierEvans wrote:I am used to sitting next to my PC and as far as I am concerned the Studio Max is absolutely silent. I cannot hear anything with my head right next to it.

Ron, since you had the Studio Max and the Threadripper PC, based on your experience, how well does the Max holds itself with DVR and at what kind of load and projects (shorts, feature, doc, commercials…)?
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 5:36 pm

I shoot with GH6 5.7K 60P, GH5S UHD 60P and AX100 HD 50p. The GH6 replaced a GH5. The Threadripper ( its old now ) system has no problem with h264 8bit files from the GH cameras so multicam with the GH5, GH5S and AX100 were fine in a HD project. I use V Log so that would add stress to the system but still usable. I got the Studio Max for the hardware decode/encode capability especially with h265 files from GH6 and with that the Studio Max works great where the Threadripper cannot manage those multicam files at all. The Threadripper can play a single GH6 5.7K 60P file Vlog OK its when anything else is added it fails. I cannot put my finger on it but somehow feel the encode from the PC is better than Studio Max ( but takes twice as long ). I tend to edit now on the Studio Max and finish on the PC as it is easier to encode to GV file for further encode with TMPGenc for DVD etc. I still use TMPGenc for encode for discs and DVDArhcitect for authoring all of course on the PC. It's great the project is the same everywhere ( now even for the iPad i just got ). Use the hardware /software best for the task at hand or my capability in using it !!
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 5:53 pm

SkierEvans wrote:
I am used to sitting next to my PC and as far as I am concerned the Studio Max is absolutely silent. I cannot hear anything with my head right next to it.


Okay, I'm glad yours is silent but you are a sample size of 1. A Google search for "M1 Studio whine" returns 603,000 results.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 7:19 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
SkierEvans wrote:
I am used to sitting next to my PC and as far as I am concerned the Studio Max is absolutely silent. I cannot hear anything with my head right next to it.


Okay, I'm glad yours is silent but you are a sample size of 1. A Google search for "M1 Studio whine" returns 603,000 results.



https://basicappleguy.com/basicappleblo ... ing-studio
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 7:49 pm


That is some annoying sound.
Curious if Apple have provided a fix to this problem. I would expect them to have a fix by now.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 8:57 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:

That is some annoying sound.
Curious if Apple have provided a fix to this problem. I would expect them to have a fix by now.


It is annoying but that fix seems effective. Hopefully, the next Mac Studio will fix that issue.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 10:14 pm

All I can say is that for me, in my environment, with my Studio max, it is silent enough for me to not notice at all.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostFri Jan 20, 2023 9:36 pm

I have the MS Ultra in my studio. I definitely hear the high pitch oscillating sound.

I was so glad to take out the noisey MP 5.1 tower and replace it with the Mac Studio but instead of fan noise I get the squeally whistle noise. The sound goes away when I adjust the fans to higher than the ~1300rpm I typically see.

While it's not very loud it's driving me crazy in my acoustically treated space. So I'm moving it off the desktop but opens another set of tech issues.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostFri Jan 20, 2023 11:22 pm

Robert Frank wrote:I have the MS Ultra in my studio. I definitely hear the high pitch oscillating sound.

I was so glad to take out the noisey MP 5.1 tower and replace it with the Mac Studio but instead of fan noise I get the squeally whistle noise. The sound goes away when I adjust the fans to higher than the ~1300rpm I typically see.

While it's not very loud it's driving me crazy in my acoustically treated space. So I'm moving it off the desktop but opens another set of tech issues.


Click the link I posted above. A simple tape can significantly lower the noise.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostSat Jan 21, 2023 6:47 am

Or give it back and complain. There are enough units out there which don't make that noise.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostSat Jan 21, 2023 11:02 am

Uli Plank wrote:Or give it back and complain. There are enough units out there which don't make that noise.


It's not totally clear whether all units make noise and some owners simply can't hear it, or whether only some units make noise. In articles I've read, some people say they hear it but their partner doesn't, or vice-versa, or they hear it in one ear but not the other. I'm old enough that I probably wouldn't be able to hear it, but my cats would...maybe a good thing as it would keep them out of my studio. :)

It seems to be a whistle caused by air being forced through the small circular vent holes. As someone joked, it's MacOS Venturi.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 10:01 am

Ellory Yu wrote:This is an interesting article for Mac Studio owners who wants to set it up for best DVR performance, even though it’s for an SMB connection.
https://elements.tv/blog/mac-studio-bes ... onnection/

Some of that advice can really mess up your system/network. Don't mess with jumbo frames unless you really know what you're doing.

When everything has failed I guess Elements has a storage solution to sell you. ;)
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 7:44 pm

Those are standard procedures for better 10gig performance- nothing special.
Jumbo frames should be on for 10gig cards, but as said in article- all equipment need to support them.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 7:55 pm

Even if all hardware supports it, it needs to be setup by someone with a deep understanding of the consequences for an organisation. Fragmented tcp/ip packages can cause routers to misbehave even if they technically support jumbo frames. I've seen it myself where local servers could no longer be accessed.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 8:29 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Those are standard procedures for better 10gig performance- nothing special.
Jumbo frames should be on for 10gig cards, but as said in article- all equipment need to support them.


Not only support them but all devices must have them on. And some software does not support them. For example, Avid Nexis is optimized for 1500 frame sizes. Jumbo frames is very difficult to implement in medium to large networks. In a small client + storage config, it is very easy. But rarely does that simple configuration exists. You often have small devices connected and do not support JF.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 10:00 pm

You have to know main rules for use of jumbo frames for sure.
Not sure what software has to do with jumbo frames- it's on OS/card level to handle it. Typical software doesn't care about jumbo or not.
AVID Nexis is a specialised (closed) solution, so it's a different case.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostMon Jan 23, 2023 10:07 pm

roger.magnusson wrote:Even if all hardware supports it, it needs to be setup by someone with a deep understanding of the consequences for an organisation. Fragmented tcp/ip packages can cause routers to misbehave even if they technically support jumbo frames. I've seen it myself where local servers could no longer be accessed.


I'm not network expert at all and done it in 3 companies (simple networks)- never had an issue.
If anything you loose performance- never seen lost accessibility.
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostTue Jan 24, 2023 1:43 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
roger.magnusson wrote:Even if all hardware supports it, it needs to be setup by someone with a deep understanding of the consequences for an organisation. Fragmented tcp/ip packages can cause routers to misbehave even if they technically support jumbo frames. I've seen it myself where local servers could no longer be accessed.


I'm not network expert at all and done it in 3 companies (simple networks)- never had an issue.
If anything you loose performance- never seen lost accessibility.

I believe that the Switches used can also have an effect.

I believe that the best setup in a mixed network environment would be to have a 10Gbe network, and a router between the 10GBe and other network that would have jumbo frames on the 10GBe, and be able to do mss clamping for the other traffic to the other network. Even have its own subnet.

Anyways... This may be something to check out: https://dongknows.com/mtu-and-jumbo-frame-explained/
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Re: Apple M2 mini Pro versus M1 studio Max

PostTue Jan 24, 2023 9:36 am

As said - you need everything connected to have jumbo enabled ( switch is very important).

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