Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

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jamiegau

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Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 2:33 am

Ok,
ST2110 is an interesting technology. Like with Dante, there is no reason a PC/Mac cannot have a virtual SDI video card that pushes the Data out as ST2110 over a generic ethernet card. (10GBe, 25, 100)

So, technically, a Monitor with a ST2110 to SDI/HDMI into the Monitor, and resolve, using a virtual video device could then push the image to any screen on a 10gBE network.
i.e. basically like we do today with Dante virtual device software for Mac/PC.

Will Blackmagic be releasing a virtual video/audio driver that can talk to the ST2110 devices?

This is of course a sensitive subject as it negates the need for the SDI/HDMI card that Blackmagic sells.
So, it is not a good idea for such a piece of software to exist as it cannibalises those products BMD sells.

But then again, BMD ST2110 is supposed to be based on open standards and anyone could technically make that software.

So I am keen to hear BMDs thoughts on this and if they will release a virtual device.
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stephen_neal

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 7:22 am

I think the issue, unlike with Dante and AES67, is that 2110-20 uncompressed video has pretty onerous requirements for timing and throughput - such that normal SFP+ NICs on PCI-E cards require more than just software at the user level to work with 2110-20/-30 etc. (For the same reason you can't use regular switches either)

The BBC has done some work with Mellanox and Netmap on bypassing the kernel to improve throughput - but the reason most 2110 capture/generation solutions for COTS hardware have integrated NICs (and aren't just virtual devices with software drivers) is that generic NICs and OS level support for them isn't good enough for 2110 on its own - or so I understand?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-04-h ... nel-bypass

(This is a world away from NDI)
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jamiegau

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 1:43 pm

> (This is a world away from NDI)
No it is not. ST2110 was specifically designed to be an open version of NDI.

If a computer can feed an SDI card, I see no reason why it cannot also feed ST2110.
It can also listen to a PTP sync source and send packets based on that. Most hi end switches are nothing but computers these days anyway. (With a lot of ethernet ports)
ST2110, does not need to be compressed. Plus, the compression BMD have created is specifically designed to be light and easy for a CPU / GPU to implement. That's what its designed for. This is not a J2k heavy codec. Also, I would like to know why they didn't implement the new J2K-HT (Open standard) which sounds very much like the proprietary one BMD has implemented. J2K-HT is Super fast and light High-Throughput version, specifically designed for this type of use model.

So, I see no reason why this is not possible. Even it it adds 2-3 frames of buffering to make sure it gets it all together. Still very useful.
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 4:39 pm

A computer doesn't feed an SDI signal, it needs some kind of hardware to convert decompressed data correctly from a timeline into one (or vice versa for input); just as ST2110 would require monitor manufacturers either to adopt Ethernet and internal decoding as a new standard input; or use external hardware convertors for SDI; every 'virtual' device ends up needing hardware; Dante is pretty useless without a physical soundcard to hear its signal output somewhere. A 'virtual' SDI signal of any kind would require some kind of hardware, and at least the physical outputs for it. There used to be Nvidia GPUs with SDI outs but that was just to get a non-broadcast computer signal to a broadcast monitor.

Why would the need for BMD's I/O devices be negated; anymore than Dante has killed the high end sound card market? When their whole purpose is to provide calibrated broadcast quality outputs and inputs locally, by passing any GPU computer device; without any latency whatsoever, for colour critical grading, VFX and editing? They are not simply hardware convertors.

ST2110 is just a new standard of sending broadcast quality video/audio data huge distances over Ethernet ,on existing infrastructure; much greater than and beyond existing SDI installations capabilities.

They're not that expensive; I'd just buy a simple Decklink or Ultrastudio rather than wait for some kind of 'Virtual' SDI device, that may never come.
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stephen_neal

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostThu Apr 25, 2024 5:52 pm

jamiegau wrote:> (This is a world away from NDI)
No it is not. ST2110 was specifically designed to be an open version of NDI.

ST-2110-20 isn't really an 'open version of NDI' - it's uncompressed and a lot more tightly specified.

If a computer can feed an SDI card, I see no reason why it cannot also feed ST2110.

Yes - just as a computer can feed a specialised 2110-20 friendly NIC (as BMD implements in their 2110 Decklinks).

The issue with doing it all in software is that you then need your OS and your Network Interface Card driver to be able to perform at 2110-20 levels. That's not a given by any means. How many 2110-20 software solutions do you see on the market that are sold for use with generic NICs?

As for 2110-22 CBR compressed video - then JPEG-XS seems to be getting leverage as a 2110-22 kicks in as a compressed remote production standard for remote camera feeds getting back to base (taking over from J2K, and TICO used with 2022 video)
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stephen_neal

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostThu Apr 25, 2024 5:56 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:ST2110 is just a new standard of sending broadcast quality video/audio data huge distances over Ethernet ,on existing infrastructure; much greater than and beyond existing SDI installations capabilities.


Remote Production is a use case - but it's also heavily used in UHD production vehicles (nobody really uses 12G-SDI, and Quad-3G is very limiting...) The big UHD production vehicles in the UK are mainly 2110-20 (with a few early ones using 2022 with TICO compression I believe). The big issue with Quad 3G UHD production is your routers and mixer/switchers quickly run out of inputs and outputs - whereas with a 2110 friendly switch you can handle more cameras, more replays etc. in UHD.

The BBC's new building in Cardiff is 2110 for example - people are less and less building large SDI installs.
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oniongarlic

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Re: Will a ST2110 virtual Video/Audio device be developed.

PostFri Apr 26, 2024 8:34 am

You can play with gstreamer / ffmpeg, https://github.com/pkeroulas/st2110-too ... _source.md
Check out my free and open software:
CutePocketRemote - https://www.tal.org/projects/cutepocketremote
CuteAtum - https://www.tal.org/projects/cuteatum

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