Best solution for 4K and HD simultaneous monitoring?

Hello,

I've been using Blackmagic products since I had Davinci Resolve. I purchased a Decklink card, then an Ultrastudio Express, then an Ultrastudio Mini recorder, and also the Ultrascope. So I'm already invested in:)

I'm trying to jump on the 4K train, so I would like to have a solution that can:
- output 4K HDMI (for OLED)
- output HD SDI (for the Ultrascope and the Mini recorder)
- is on thunderbolt and doesn't need a separate machine room. (Connects to a trash can Mac Pro)

So far the only Blackmagic solution would be the Ultrastudio 4K Extreme 3, which is quite noisy. Other vendors have solutions for the exact same thing, what do you think, will Blackmagic update it's Ultrastudio line this year?
Or what would be a solution for this (I guess I'm not the only one)

Thank you,
Laco

This https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/techspecs/W-DLK-32



In this https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/images/products/decklink/techspecs/hero/decklink-mini-monitor-4k-md.jpg?_v=1523842269



Should do the trick for around $ 400..450 us.

The Decklink 4K pro has two SDI outputs. Put it into a TB/PCI chassis and you have a good solution.

With the 4K pro, one SDI feed will downsample 4K to HD. If you need HDMI, you can run the 4K SDI into a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI box. The added bonus is that the Teranex Mini has 3D LUT capability so you can run a correction LUT if your monitor does not have internal 3D LUT capability.

- J

I'm rescuing this post from the past, to get new thoughts

Same idea, we need 2x outputs:

HD SDI output for the FSI 241 Reference Monitor
4K HDMI output for our projector, simultaneously.

For the previous replies, there are two ways, either the UltraStudio 4k Mini:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-DLUS-11

Or a combination of PCIe Expansion + a DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-DLK-32

Any pros and cons known for this combinations? I'm sure we are not the first ones with such a setup, any thoughts appreciated. We are running a MacStudio.

The US Mini 4K, will not allow you to do this, I know as I am in the same situation. It will either output HD or 4K, on both HDMI and SDI, not independently. Until now I have been feeding a signal to my reference monitor and then downstreaming the signal, with an independent 3D calibration Lut, from that monitor to the 4K client monitor. My reference monitor is a SmallHD 1703 P3X, that allows that but it downcoverts 4K to HD and passes only the same through. The FSIs don't even have HDMI anyway. My current solution has been a Startech HDMI Splitter (HDMI to both SmallHD and 4K) - I can now force 4K on the client monitor, with EDID but the reference monitor then loses signal. Whilst that's OK for a final client viewing, it's not ideal. The SmallHD has SDI too, so I have tried that and running HDMI directly to the client monitor - 4K from the US becomes HD, because it is already down converting in the reference monitor, don't ask me how when SDI has no EDID.

So I am buying the 7" HDR Va, to act as both my waveform/vectorscope external monitor and to pass a 4K signal with Lut to the client monitor. Hopefully it doesn't do the same as the splitter, but I cannot be sure until it arrives. The scopes are more important to me anyway as I cannot fit a 4K Duoscope on my desk and it will double as an onset monitor.

The bottom line is unless the destination monitors can handle down conversion in hardware, you will not be able to deliver independent HD and 4K signals at the same time and even then EDID from the BMD device may defeat that. The teranex mentioned above, I understand should work that way but nobody who actually has one has verified that, to my knowledge.

So I am buying the 7" HDR Va, to act as both my waveform/vectorscope external monitor and to pass a 4K signal with Lut to the client monitor. Hopefully it doesn't do the same as the splitter, but I cannot be sure until it arrives. The scopes are more important to me anyway as I cannot fit a 4K Duoscope on my desk and it will double as an onset monitor.

Sounds interesting and would like to hear about the results, but a bit too complicated of a setup.



I'm sure there is another option, What about the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G + PCIe Expansion?
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-DLK-25

Sounds interesting and would like to hear about the results, but a bit too complicated of a setup.

I'm sure there is another option, What about the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G + PCIe Expansion?
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-DLK-25

It's not as complicated as I explained it, Sergi I think you will find all BMD I/O devices will behave the same - it's really down to being able to isolate each signal and treat it differently through hardware after them. The best alternative of course is to have both reference monitor and client monitor 4K ones. As I don't require 4K resolution to grade, and I only grade in SDR currently (I only need 4K on the larger client monitor to check detail on 4K), I cannot justify the extra investment.

For such a need I would rather invest in BM device which can be also used for monitoring HDR and SDR simultaneously (even if you don't grade HDR today). This is somehow future proofing yourself.
Other way is to use cheap HD BM card + UHD GUI displays through eg. Nobe Display.

For such a need I would rather invest in BM device which can be also used for monitoring HDR and SDR simultaneously (even if you don't grade HDR today).

What device are you talking about, Andrew? BMD don't make grade 1 HDR reference monitors - I have everything else, including their Mini 4K and now the 12G VA. A proper HDR reference monitor would be 20K plus, until such time as I have work to justify that expenditure, since I only buy gear that can usefully pay for itself, in the short term, I'll hold off.

Device as a card

For such a need I would rather invest in BM device which can be also used for monitoring HDR and SDR simultaneously (even if you don't grade HDR today). This is somehow future proofing yourself.
Other way is to use cheap HD BM card + UHD GUI displays through eg. Nobe Display.

I love the Nobe Display plugin, and they are great, including an amazing costumer care. However I would not use it for an every-day client based grading room as it presents it's own performance problems (having to disable caching, etc.)

Device as a card

So you mean what I was saying before, the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G + PCIe Expansion?

Device as a card

Gotcha, Andrew

So you mean what I was saying before, the DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G + PCIe Expansion?

I don't think it will work the way you imagine Sergi. Neither 4K or HD, or HDR and SDR can be output simultaneously, from independent outputs. You're going to have to find an external solution or 2 4K monitors But I would speak to sales and support, for this.

Simultaneous HDR and SDR works only on very few specific cards (eg. 8K Pro).
Simultaneous UHD and HD works also only on cards which have scaler built in ( eg Extreme model).

I love the Nobe Display plugin, and they are great, including an amazing costumer care. However I would not use it for an every-day client based grading room as it presents it's own performance problems (having to disable caching, etc.)

Ok, didn’t know. There meant to be new version released (with HDR support), but looks like it’s late.

Simultaneous HDR and SDR works only on very few specific cards (eg. 8K Pro).

Tone mapping works on all cards that supports 3D viewing mode. 8K Pro is one of the few IO that supports up to 4K. Most BM cards only goes up to 2K for master + tone mapping viewing.

So I am buying the 7" HDR Va, to act as both my waveform/vectorscope external monitor and to pass a 4K signal with Lut to the client monitor. Hopefully it doesn't do the same as the splitter, but I cannot be sure until it arrives. The scopes are more important to me anyway as I cannot fit a 4K Duoscope on my desk and it will double as an onset monitor.

I can happily report that the VA 7" 12G HDR, allows me to output from the US Mini 4K, to both HD and 4K, on my SmallHD reference monitor and 4K client monitor, at the same time. I can have a clean feed out and also a waveform on the VA. I have found quick release mounting solutions for both Monitor in the edit suite and UBG2 camera on set. So I'm very pleased all in all. I just need to calibrate the output for the 4K monitor.

Just an update: I think there is no way to send a downstream 3D Lut from the VA, (I haven't had time to test thoroughly but it was the case on previous firmwares) so I may have to buy one of the mini convertors that can load them, for calibration. I've got the the client monitor pretty close without though, so it's not critical. But with the convertor, I think it's a very workable and professional post solution.

Are you experiencing any delay from the computer monitor (interface) and the client monitor when editing?

Are you experiencing any delay from the computer monitor (interface) and the client monitor when editing?

Yes Patrick, and it's the same in any facility where a consumer TV is used for the client monitor, which is just about most. I don't know whether it's HDCP that causes it, but there is no difference and no delay between HDMI and SDI, on my reference monitor. It's not an issue though, since normally you cut the sound to the client monitor during edit or grade and only switch it on, for say a final viewing. In my case I have a sound bar solution for that purpose, for the client monitor.

1st rule about this- never split AV signal. If you do so you are very likely to get desync.
If you monitor with TV then you should take audio from TV output. Of course good pro monitors guarantee sync as they compensate for TV processing on audio output. With consumer devices you can rely on HDMI auto-sync, but your devices have to support it. Today’s TVs have quite fast processing, which typically fall <1 frame, so it should be fine.
I had this working fine with Pioneer amp and and old good Kuro plasma. With old amp I had clear desync.
Same applies when you take PC audio and TV video or even PC audio and PC monitoring, but this is rather rare today.

You will get delay between PC monitor and external one as BM card adds 1-3 frames most likely. This is why you should take audio from BM feed not PC. As I said- don’t take AV from different ’sources’.

Not sure what HDCP has to do with it. BM cards don’t touch HDCP.

No but all consumer devices use it. I have no idea if that's part of the cause either, I just know that HDMI has no delay on my reference monitor though it does on the consumer client TV, both driven ultimately from the same US Mini 4K BM device.

Maybe TV processing is above 1 frame so you can start seeing it. Take audio from TV itself and compare. Feed HDMI to amp with auto-sync and then to TV ( it has to support it as well). Tv reports processing time to amp which delays audio accordingly, so all should be fine.

Maybe TV processing is above 1 frame so you can start seeing it. Take audio from TV itself and compare. Feed HDMI to amp with auto-sync and then to TV ( it has to support it as well). Tv reports processing time to amp which delays audio accordingly, so all should be fine.

I would say it's more like 12+ frames, Andrew and on every consumer TV so installed, I've come across. It's not an issue for the reasons I gave, nor does anyone bother with it in the facilities I work at to.

12 frames?
Never seen such a thing Few frames, yes.
Are you taking audio from same HDMI signal or from PC directly?

12 frames?
Never seen such a thing Few frames, yes.
Are you taking audio from same HDMI signal or from PC directly?

Maybe I'm exaggerating It's enough for an echo but I've never measured it. Yes directly from same, no pc connection, I only use I/O.

I can happily report that the VA 7" 12G HDR, allows me to output from the US Mini 4K, to both HD and 4K, on my SmallHD reference monitor and 4K client monitor, at the same time. I can have a clean feed out and also a waveform on the VA. ...

Hi Steve,
Thanks for sharing, can you explain how you have everything cabled please?
I'm looking for a solution, to work on a 4K timeline and output to an HD monitor (Flanders). I'm using a BM UltraStudio Monitor which doesn't downscale. I have a BM 5" 12G VA, could I use that to downscale?
Kind regards,
Damien

Hi Steve,
Thanks for sharing, can you explain how you have everything cabled please?
I'm looking for a solution, to work on a 4K timeline and output to an HD monitor (Flanders). I'm using a BM UltraStudio Monitor which doesn't downscale. I have a BM 5" 12G VA, could I use that to downscale?

Sorry Damien, I missed this. Unfortunately, I think with the Flanders it may not work, since they have no HDMI inputs. On my setup I have the US 4K Mini, with SDI out to the Video Assist and HDMI out to a SmallHD 1703P3X. The 4K signal seems to handshake with the SmallHD and down convert to HD fine whilst passing the 4K signal through the VA to the 4K client monitor. I don't think SDI will do this, though I can't remember when I had SDI only going to the SmallHD, before. There are a couple of caveats even so. The VA is 10bit 4:2:2 and will not pass an RGB or 12bit signal, at all, at least not with SDI. And there is no way to send a 3D calibration Lut downstream, as I can from the SmallHD.