BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

Do you have questions about Desktop Video, Converters, Routers and Monitoring?
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostThu Sep 19, 2019 9:44 pm

I know, after googling, that this was a previous issue (with various other codecs such as Sony, etc)
which Adobe says has been fixed as of Premiere Pro 13.1 however I am still seeing the timecode being reported incorrectly. I'm not sure if it is happening on the Blackmagic side, or the Adobe side, and I have posted a more detailed account of this over there.

Long story short (I have a complex project that this is impacting negatively),

1) RAN A TEST: In Windows 10 with BRAW 1.5 installed, editing in Premiere.

2) I opened Premiere 13.1.3 and created a New Project. Used Media Browser to import a handful of files shot on the BMPCC4K

3) Opened the same clip(s) on the BRAW Player 1.5 Looking at the Source Monitor in Premiere of the first frame of the clip, with the timecode overlay visible (as well as the Media Start timecode in the footage bin in view).

4) Compare it to the first frame timecode in the BRAW Player. THE TIMECODE IS DIFFERENT. By about 1.5 minutes. And not consistently, but randomly up to 1 1/2 minutes off for each clip.

Has anybody else reported this? It is probably an issue on the Adobe side, since in recent previous versions they had this exact same problem with various source codecs, effectively making timecode and shared workflows impossible. Adobe said by PPro v 13.1 this was fixed, but it clearly is not.

I wanted to bring this up here since it is such a critical issue, and not sure where exactly the problem is originating from. Hoping this can be addressed.
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostMon Sep 23, 2019 8:11 pm

Ran the same test above but with the latest Premiere 13.1.5 & a fresh re-install of BRAW 1.5 Plugin. Same problem.
Offline
User avatar

antoine

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:20 am
  • Real Name: Antoine Dornstetter

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostWed Sep 25, 2019 8:11 pm

You are using 23.976 fps or 29.97 fps ?

We fixed this issue in BRAW Studio with a Premiere Pro Panel : https://autokroma.com/blog/Introduction-to-BRAW-Studio/
Import BRAW into Adobe PPro ! https://Autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostFri Sep 27, 2019 8:31 pm

antoine wrote:You are using 23.976 fps or 29.97 fps ?

We fixed this issue in BRAW Studio with a Premiere Pro Panel :


Thanks. We shot in 23.976

I'm going to try BRAW Studio shortly. It's great to know that a fix / workaround is available.

Still have yet to get any kind of acknowledgement or response from Adobe.

I'm skeptical that my particular case can be fixed because it might be "too late" since I already synced a large project with about 1,000 clips to double system sound and already did edits from that. However at least I have the unadulterated PPro project file, before any unlinking or migrating was done, to try out different repair methods using your plugin.

Will report back.
Offline
User avatar

antoine

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:20 am
  • Real Name: Antoine Dornstetter

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostSun Sep 29, 2019 12:08 pm

We reported this bug to Adobe months ago :(
Import BRAW into Adobe PPro ! https://Autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostTue Oct 01, 2019 8:24 pm

Reporting back for posterity.

Happy to report that BRAW Studio solved this problem.

Win10 / Premiere 13.1.3 / BMPCC4K footage @ 23.976fps

1. Un-installed BRAW 1.5 / Installed BRAW Studio.

2. As noted on the Autokroma.com website, made sure to turn off "Align Timecode" in the Link Media dialog box before proceeding.

3. All media was already offline because project was just moved to a different workstation using a different local RAID to host source files. Had multiple backups of the pre-migration .pproj file before proceeding.

4. Opened the BRAW Studio Panel and selected "Correct Shift (Auto)".

5. Shifted / Out of Sync clips in Sequences were suddenly in sync! It worked.

6. Noticed, oddly, that a few clips here and there were still shifted / out of sync. After investigation determined that only clips that were MOS (not synced to externally recorded audio, and possessing only the 2-CH reference onboard camera audio) were still shifted and out of sync. Found a way to quickly manually "Modify > Timecode" by opening the project in the previous workstation next to the new workstation and correcting the timecode manually, using the old project as a reference for the correct timecode. Took about an hour to manually fix ~300 MOS braw clips.

I'm shocked that such a problem could exist and consider myself lucky to have discovered this timecode issue in Premiere relatively early in the post workflow. I would imagine there are many more people who are in the middle of editing a longform BRAW project, in a collaborative scenario, who are completely oblivious to the issue. Especially since the timecodes represented by Premiere are "close enough" and appear to be chronological, it is reasonable to expect the timecodes are REAL.

But once these people lock picture and have to send the project downstream to Colorists and VFX... what a mess awaits. Especially if you've been stuck in a dark room editing for 9-15 weeks, do your hand off, and take a much-needed out of town getaway only to get that call you don't want at 9 in the morning.

The AE or Editors will eventually figure out what's wrong but imagine explaining it to the producers. It could easily sound like excuses or cover-up for somebody screwing up. Also, typically near the end of post production you're in the worst time crunch. Ouch.

I hope Adobe fixes this soon. Haven't heard from them.

Thanks to Antoine and Autokroma for the heads up on this solution.
Offline
User avatar

antoine

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:20 am
  • Real Name: Antoine Dornstetter

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostThu Oct 03, 2019 2:32 pm

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. Do you know if your issue with some clips out of sync is linked to .braw or BRAW Studio, if there's something we can do ? Please send us your footage for inspection

Yes it's a shame Blackmagic released this plugin without telling anyone about this issue. Adobe know about this issue we told them and Blackmagic should have known if they looked a little bit in our direction or did some basic testing. We've been experiencing this for months (since February) and solved that issue a long time ago with the PPro Panel.
Import BRAW into Adobe PPro ! https://Autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostSat Oct 05, 2019 8:27 pm

Hi Antoine,

Sure- but just to be sure here's a history of our workflow with this project in case any of it matters:

TL;DR: everything was working correctly with accurate timecode until I used either BRAW 1.5 or BRAW Studio plugins (before applying the fix).

1. In OSX, using Resolve, transcoded all of the footage to QT ProRes, made sure all export settings were correct.

2. In OSX, within Adobe Premiere, using Media Browser, imported all the transcoded ProRes described above.

3. Synced all the ProRes media to production audio, where applicable. Began editing the project. Everything behaving normally. (NOTE: I can verify that all the timecodes were reporting CORRECTLY at this point, for both MOS & Synced Clips, as I still have the unadulterated intact OSX Premiere project that I am looking at now.)

4. Copied all projects and media files over to a faster Windows 10 edit system. By default everything is offline at this point because even the local storage is a different RAID drive. PProj file is untouched and never even opened.

5. Installed Blackmagic's BRAW v1.5

6. Opened the Premiere project file on the Win10 machine. All scenes & sequences out of sync/shifted! Figured out that the timecodes were different, but otherwise had no idea what was going on. Came here for help.

7. When I uninstalled BRAW v1.5 and tried BRAW Studio instead, I reverted to a fresh untouched .pproj file from the OSX machine and started over. The rest is described earlier in the thread. Timecodes were still incorrect but I was eventually able to fix it using the features described at Autokroma.

8. Had a weird issue where the MOS clips were still incorrect so for those I entered timecode manually. I suspect I could have used the plugin to fix those too, but don't know my way around BRAW Studio very well yet.

I can send a very short braw clip from the same shoot/project. How do I get it to you?

Incidentally this project was shot a few months ago, so likely the BMPCC4K camera was using a slightly older firmware. I know it was updated from the stock manufacturer installed firmware, but likely not the latest one available today.

Chris

EDIT: Corrected the workflow history, got confused with a diff project.
Last edited by ailurophile on Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostSat Oct 05, 2019 8:41 pm

One last thing since I'm trying to figure out any other unique circumstances as it seems not everyone in the world is having this problem:

In Preferences > Media:

[ ] Write XMP ID to files on import
[ ] Write clip markers to XMP
[ ] Enable clip and XMP metadata linking

These settings are always unchecked/off as required by an important client.
Offline
User avatar

antoine

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:20 am
  • Real Name: Antoine Dornstetter

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostSun Oct 06, 2019 6:24 am

Hi Chris,

Yes some MOS footages to reproduce your issue with timecodes not being fixed would be great thanks.
Thanks for the whole timeline. If you convert into another format than .BRAW then the timecode bug might disappears as the encoder might convert the "wrong" timecode into a "working" timecode. Basically there is a little flag in the .braw timecode that makes everything go wrong in Premiere Pro.

But when you "replace" or "relink" a file with the working timecode with a .braw with the wrong timecode, a shift appears if the "Align Timecode" is ticked. More information here : How do I avoid the Shift Issue in BRAW Studio ? https://autokroma.com/blog/Clip-Shifted-Issue-BRAW-Studio/. I should have given this link earlier, sorry!
Import BRAW into Adobe PPro ! https://Autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/
Offline
User avatar

antoine

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:20 am
  • Real Name: Antoine Dornstetter

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostSun Oct 06, 2019 5:09 pm

And to send it to me could you send us an email with a link to Dropbox, WeTransfer, G Drive et... ? https://autokroma.com/contact/ Thanks
Import BRAW into Adobe PPro ! https://Autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/
Offline

ailurophile

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Real Name: CHRIS LEE

Re: BRAW v1.5 Premiere Plugin - Timecode incorrect

PostMon Oct 07, 2019 4:59 pm

antoine wrote:And to send it to me could you send us an email with a link to Dropbox, WeTransfer, G Drive et... ? https://autokroma.com/contact/ Thanks


Hi Antoine I just sent a Google Drive link via the above address. It's just the AC holding a color chart, but please use the braw file for internal use only and do not distribute.

Thank you!

Return to Post Production

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests