Render Caching: Caching inactive timelines

I just noticed (in 17.2.2) that Render Caching only seems to work on the currently active timeline.

I'm working on a 90 minute video that's comprised of 10 separate nested timelines (for organizational & "chapterization" purposes). Even if I open all 10 timelines in separate Timeline tabs, the only timeline that caches is the currently active one. If I switch to any of the other ones, the cache indicators remain Red, and only starts to Smart Cache when I switch to that timeline.

This is a bit of a drag, because of the length of these chapters,I want to be able to render each timeline out to ProRes masters using the "Use render cached images" option in the Deliver page. So I have to manually bring every single timeline into focus in order for the Render Caching to kick in.

I would like Resolve to render cache all open timelines, even if they aren't currently active in the foreground.

Either that, or have a "Force Render Cache" option in the contextual menus of the Media Pool, so you can multi-select a bunch of timelines you want to force the Render Cache on, without having to open them up individually.

I want to be able to render each timeline out to ProRes masters using the "Use render cached images" option in the Deliver page.

Why?

I ask because it doesn't necessarily save time to create the Cache first. Cache time + Export time may not be much different than exporting without the Cache.

I would like Resolve to render cache all open timelines, even if they aren't currently active in the foreground.

Oof! Not by default I hope.

I want to be able to render each timeline out to ProRes masters using the "Use render cached images" option in the Deliver page.

Why?

I ask because it doesn't necessarily save time to create the Cache first. Cache time + Export time may not be much different than exporting without the Cache.

It most certainly does make a difference.

If you have a render intensive grade, you generally don't want to have the Render Queue render it again as if it were never cached (assuming your Render Cache format is of adequate quality for your desired export format). It's a huge waste of time and can be a real workflow roadblock. As an aside, this is why I often deliberately ignore the Frame.io export option in the Deliver page, because it does not have the ability to export with render cached images.

you generally don't want to have the Render Queue render it again

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that.

I'm saying that if you render it once as a Cache, and then export using that Cache, the total time for both operations (Cache + Delivery) is likely to be very similar to not rendering the Cache, and only doing the Delivery.

If you're creating the Cache for better playback during editing, that makes sense. If you're creating the Cache as a last step before Delivery so the Cache can be used, not so much.

you generally don't want to have the Render Queue render it again

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that.

I'm saying that if you render it once as a Cache, and then export using that Cache, the total time for both operations (Cache + Delivery) is likely to be very similar to not rendering the Cache, and only doing the Delivery.

If you're creating the Cache for better playback during editing, that makes sense. If you're creating the Cache as a last step before Delivery so the Cache can be used, not so much.

I’m truly not following what your point is. Of course the primary reason why you use Render Caching is for “better playback while editing”. That’s why I want all my timelines cached as much as possible.

Although maybe I should have been clearer in my explanation that the reason why I noticed this behavior is because I dearchived an old editorial project that I did over a year ago, for client revisions. They wanted to make changes to almost every sequence in the project, so I was hoping to just open all those timelines and have Resolve regenerate the caches for all of them in the background while I went off to make my breakfast.

I can understand that some people may not want background timelines to cache, for general system performance reasons, but I think there should be some sort of mechanism for force-caching multiple timelines at once.

Maybe a better option would be to make this a contextual menu operation, so the current caching behavior can be preserved, while still allowing for force-caching selected timelines in the Bin/Media Pool?

If you cache and render just once, it makes no difference. But if you do changes and have to render again, re-caching/rendering only changed part vs re-rendering everything makes a huge difference.

I can understand that some people may not want background timelines to cache, for general system performance reasons, but I think there should be some sort of mechanism for force-caching multiple timelines at once.

+1. This would be a nice workflow improvement. Essentially it is a "free" performance improvement by utilizing the idle machine while the operator is thinking or otherwise (coffee, bathroom break...) occupied.

You would likely want some mechanism for excluding timelines that you don't want cached.

Absolutely a +1

It would be a huge time saver, especially for multiple resolution deliverables etc etc

+1.

This should be an option, any news about it? maybe they introduce the features in 18.5?
Thanks

It will be great to be able to queue render cache for different timeline.

+1
But optionally only, so it can be turned off.

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+1
But optionally only, so it can be turned off.

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Absolutely, must be optional!

+1
I'd love to be able to run cache on all inactive timelines. It would save an enormous amount of time, for TV shows for example.

+1
Feature film graders do crave for that option !

I have a review of the movie I'm working on now, on which we had a 3-month break. 5 reels (6 previously).
Grading started again today with edit changes, reconformed into DaVinci.
Today was about checking that new shots match and that the grading is still ok with duration changes.
The whole movie needs caching and the only way to have a flexible review ready tomorrow first time in the morning is to stick in front of the machine and switch to the next reel when one is done.
Huge loss of time when a simple right-click on the wanted timelines > "Render cache selected Timelines" would save my day (or my night).

I don't even ask for it to work in background (for the time being ) !

+100
I create short clips from 2 hour or so multicam concert recordings. No matter where I click on the timeline, it always chokes and the playback stalls because it updates the cache. It would be so great to have an option to "Cache everything you can" and (no matter how long it takes or what disk space it needs) have fluent editing afterwards.

+1'ing myself for Resolve 20

This is especially critical when render in place routinely fails to render magic mask alphas, & magic mask looses track if compounded.


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I don't want to derail the conversation about Rendering open timelines, I think that might work in certain circumstances. What you described about your current set up however, is something of an issue. You said that you had ten nested timelines right? Those will never cache on the main timeline. One of the quirks of Resolve compared to Premiere is that nested timelines aren't treated like clip elements. They hold out when caches are being generated. If you go into those timelines and allow caching to happen there, they'll play back real time in the Main timeline.

So a secondary request that might help in this case is to figure out how to allow nested timelines to cache in a main timeline. Somehow, Resolve lets compound clips do it so it must be possible and they have complex elements in them.

A third level request could be to allow timeline level caching not layer level caching. So that you won't get issues like individual clips or nested sequences slowing down the caching and playback in areas of an edit that you're done messing with. This is how After Effects and Premiere do it and seems to work well in complex situations. Given how many layers are going to be used to do motion graphics in the new Resolve 20 Edit page features, this seems like the only way forward if you go by the example of having ten photoshop layers split out and moving around. Seems like you'd have to flatten all of that into one cache to get real time playback.

One of the quirks of Resolve compared to Premiere is that nested timelines aren't treated like clip elements. They hold out when caches are being generated. If you go into those timelines and allow caching to happen there, they'll play back real time in the Main timeline. So a secondary request that might help in this case is to figure out how to allow nested timelines to cache in a main timeline.
...
A third level request could be to allow timeline level caching not layer level caching.

You've pretty much hit the nail(s) on the head regarding my wishlist on caching behavior.

I cant think of a situation in which you wouldn't want a nested timeline to be cached in the Main timeline. So Resolve should treat nested timelines in the same manner as Compound clips. This is another reason why I've long been a proponent that there shouldnt be a distinction between "Compound clips" and simple nested timelines. Especially now that Resolve has an option to Disable Timelines in the Media Pool, possibly the only advantage Compound Clips once had over nested timelines—i.e. not polluting timeline dropdown lists—is now completely gone.

And regarding "timeline level caching", I've posted a feature request for "timeline proxies", which would let you associate pre-rendered movie files with timelines, and plays the timeline back from that "proxy" file, similar to how After Effects comp proxies work.

I cant think of a situation in which you wouldn't want a nested timeline to be cached in the Main timeline. So Resolve should treat nested timelines in the same manner as Compound clips. This is another reason why I've long been a proponent that there shouldn't be a distinction[/url] between "Compound clips" and simple nested timelines. Especially now that Resolve has an option to Disable Timelines in the Media Pool, possibly the only advantage Compound Clips once had over nested timelines—i.e. not polluting timeline dropdown lists—is now completely gone.

The use of compound clips is a remnant of the old ways of using Resolve for Color. As the program has gathered features that parallel other editing software, like seeing other timelines in stacked view, the compound clip becomes more irrelevant and confusing. It should be sun-setted and just allow Fusion to work on a sequence.

As for rendering everything in the timeline, I totally agree. I don't care if in the background the program is doing some crazy dance to "hidden" load the nested sequence and render it in timeline but to the end user, there's not even a dialogue box that pops up warning of nested sequences that won't render. Programs should automate tedious and often repeated moves. Having to step into a nested sequence to render it is one of those things.

I would guess that this has to do with the ability for Resolve to render each layer independently for real time playback. It sees a sequence as a series of layers instead of a closed stream. So it's just compounding the amount it needs to shove into the GPU. So making a "flat version" of the sequence on the timeline is probably the tech hurdle they don't want to handle since it would need to be agile enough to handle someone editing/not editing the sequence as another team member. Is the timeline locked if it's nested? How many timelines would need to be recached when the sequence is changed?

It might be as easy as the main timeline sending a render command to the nested sequence or it could be a nightmare. Still think it needs to happen but it's understandable.