Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Mark Grgurev

  • Posts: 355
  • Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 am

Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 4:00 am

I've been thinking about how the each page interacts with each other.

Could things be improved?
Do the pages interact with each other in a way that makes sense?
Does the program do a good job of showing how these pages interact?

Since Resolve now lets people disable pages they won't use and lets them disable the page navigation entirely, Resolve users that specialize in just audio, color, compositing, or editing can treat Resolve like it's the stand-alone application... But do those pages currently give those people all the functionality they may need?

What I decided to do was to make a diagram of Davinci Resolve showing both feature overlap and the order of operations to get a sense of this. This is what I came up with.

Image

Image Fairlight
Image Edit
Image Fusion
Image Color

While making this, I found some interesting behavior that could probably be better represented in Resolve's UI.

Color Page

I think most people assume the changes you make in the Color page happen after the Edit page in the processing chain but that's not true. They interweave.

If a Colorist is handed off an edit and the editor already added effects and blend modes to a clip, a colorist shouldn't have to switch pages to edit those settings. The Colorist should have a way to view the Edit page effects and the clips blending mode so they can change, remove, or bypass them.

I've previously suggested that the Color Page should have a contextual palette area that changes depending on the node you have selected.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=92731

If something like that were implemented then a colorist would be able to select a Source Node a be presented with these options:

Code: Select all
Clip Settings
      Camera Raw
      Info
   Scaling
      Input Sizing
      Edit Sizing
   Reference and Tracking
      Stabilizer


Add the Edit page's OFX stack to that and Blending settings to the output node and that would visually demonstrate the order of operations to the colorist.

This goes the other way, too. The Camera Raw settings should be added to the Edit page's Inspector, too, since it's technically Metadata that can be used to update a Sidecar file on the hard drive. This would put the Edit page settings and the Source Node settings inline with each other and make it very clear how the two page interact.

Fusion Page

I've long had issues with aspects of Fusion's implementation. When it was first added, I loved it but really disliked that you needed to drag a Fusion comp into the timeline to get started. By existing only in your in your edit space, it put the composition at risk of being deleted accidentally. That could throw away days of work and is just bad practice.

I very quickly figured out that you could drag a composition into the Media Pool for safe keeping and that you can create a Fusion composition in the Media Pool to begin with. Regardless, it seems that a lot of people don't know that because I still find Fusion tutorials that tell people to create compositions in the timeline.

But that's not all! Even if you do have a composition in the Media Pool, dragging it into timeline doesn't create an instance of it, it creates a full copy. If you change the version in the Media Pool, the changes can't propagate to the clips. Compositions are the only things in the Resolve that behave this way. That and the fact that all clips in Resolve can be turned into Fusion comps made it very difficult to try to show in the diagram.

Why not get rid of timeline compositions? They should work like footage. Just like any other footage, Double clicking them in the Edit Page's Media Pool would allow you to preview them in the Source Viewer. Putting them on the timeline would create links to the source Composition. Each instance could just be modified using controls just like in Fusion Titles.

The source composition could be changed by Right-clicking on the composition and clicking "Open in Fusion page", you can switch to the Fusion page when an instance is selected in the timeline, or if you're in the Fusion page you could double click the comp in the Media Pool just like you can now. Any changes you make would then apply to the other instances in the timeline and if you want to make a copy... you can just copy the composition.

The New Layout

After these changes, that diagram would look like this.

Image

There's two things you might notice about this.

1. Where did "Source Color" and "Source Audio FX" come from?

Resolve is currently set up with the understanding that anyone who works on audio or color is working on something that's already been edited. There's a lot of situations where someone might be ask be asked to start sweetening the audio or grading clips while the editor is working on something else.

Both of these things are technically possible in Resolve but only if these modified clips are in timelines instead of the Media Pool. The idea here is to allow the Fairlight and Color page to apply effects and grades to clips in the Media Pool without ever having to drag clips onto a timeline. These source grades and audio FX would be applied before any timeline changes. You can look at the Source Grade as your Color Correction while your timeline would be for providing a color look. The Source Audio FX could be used for sweetening and noise reduction while the effects in the timeline would be for mixing.

Both could also improve performance. Consider audio sweetening. You could potentially stack a lot of noise reduction and other heavy effects. Instead of rendering them every frame, a mixer can cache the Source Audio effects. Then every reference to the clip on the timeline would refer to the cached clip and only the mixing effects would get rendered in real-time.

2. Looks like the Edit page can do everything the Fairlight page can do

Yes. Short of a few minor differences, the Edit page can do everything the Fairlight page can. If you just used Fairlight for mixing audio for videos, this diagram might be enough to make you feel that the Fairlight page should be removed and the Edit page should do it's job. The problem is that that's likely not good enough for someone who would use a DAW for music for example.

Fairlight needs to do some things to distinguish itself from the Edit page. Audio is not my forte so I might be totally off about what audio professional might want but I think there's an opportunity to bring in some code from the Color page and Fusion page.

Audio tracks don't have a stack order. It doesn't matter if a track is above or below another one, the mix will sound the same. It has that in common with 3D compositing. So maybe Fairlight could borrow some of Fusion's 3D code to allow people to pan tracks and clips in 3D space and establish environment shapes for reverb. The actual work of putting clips on to different tracks at different times, but things like bus routing can be done with nodes.

I understand it's not very conventional for DAW but they might be interesting ideas to try.
Last edited by Mark Grgurev on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Peter Chamberlain

Blackmagic Design

  • Posts: 7403
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:08 am

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 12:30 pm

Thanks for the considered feedback
DaVinci Resolve Product Manager
Offline

Mark Grgurev

  • Posts: 355
  • Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 am

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostFri Feb 28, 2020 10:28 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Thanks for the considered feedback


Glad you read them. Just wish I noticed all the typos beforehand :-)
Offline

nixart

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:21 pm
  • Real Name: Nick Ritter

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 8:05 pm

I love this idea of having a Composition in your media pool that timelines reference to.

My plus-one to this idea would be that once you lay in an instance of the Composition in your timeline, assuming you can expose certain parameters in the Edit Page, that you'd be able to make a single parameter independent to that one instance.

For example, if I create a lower third animation in a Fusion comp, I could drag instances into my timeline. Currently they all look the same and if I change one of them in a Fusion tab, it changes all of them. But there's an additional option that could be in a context menu to release the selected parameter like source text or font family that I could change in this one instance only in the edit page without that change carrying over to the other instances.

Effectively this could make every composition clip a template.

A suggestion of course. This is just a workflow I could see myself using a bunch.
Offline

Mark Grgurev

  • Posts: 355
  • Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 am

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 9:39 pm

nixart wrote:For example, if I create a lower third animation in a Fusion comp, I could drag instances into my timeline. Currently they all look the same and if I change one of them in a Fusion tab, it changes all of them. But there's an additional option that could be in a context menu to release the selected parameter like source text or font family that I could change in this one instance only in the edit page without that change carrying over to the other instances.

Effectively this could make every composition clip a template.


That's actually what I was suggesting should be the default behavior lol It would be cool to have the option to gang a parameter among all instance in the timeline though.

Glad you like my suggestion :-)
Offline
User avatar

Dmitry Shijan

  • Posts: 1144
  • Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:15 pm
  • Location: UA

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostWed Mar 11, 2020 10:36 pm

Great ideas and great charts!
I also noticed many times that Fairlight is formally just a 99% copy of Edit page and it is 99% totally useless and inconvenient as separate page in video production.
If Fairlight legacy is so principal for developers, why don't release it as separate DAW for musicians and keep to improve it?

Color and Edit pages relation sometimes may be complicated but it is really impossible (and not necessary) to fit all current Color tools and Timeline into one single page.

I am not too deep into Fusion but those suggestions seems logical.

Also a lot of people requested to combine best parts of Cut and Edit page into single page Edit.
All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/
Offline

Mark Grgurev

  • Posts: 355
  • Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 am

Re: Rethinking How Resolve's Pages Interact

PostThu Apr 02, 2020 8:49 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:If Fairlight legacy is so principal for developers, why don't release it as separate DAW for musicians and keep to improve it?


Software is malleable enough that it isn't really needed.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Color and Edit pages relation sometimes may be complicated but it is really impossible (and not necessary) to fit all current Color tools and Timeline into one single page.


And I definitely wouldn't want them to be one page. They would still be separate pages, but their feature overlap would be slightly different.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Also a lot of people requested to combine best parts of Cut and Edit page into single page Edit.


Myself included lol I really don't like the idea of the Cut page and Edit page being separate which is why the Cut page isn't even included in my diagram lol

Return to DaVinci Resolve Feature Requests

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests