Enhanced Sub-Clipping/MAM functionality

I'd like to see the functionality of Adobe Prelude (and some of Kyno - https://lesspain.software/kyno/ -- It would be awesome if BM bought Kyno and incorporated it wholesale into Resolve like Fusion and Fairlight...) incorporated into the cut page (or its own page) for logging/ingest. I frequently record long form events (sports, conferences, etc.) and need to get many sub-clips from the main clip (the total recording, which can be over an hour long). It is a pain to have to pull overlapping clips out of the total (say when there are two (or more) athletes (or discussants) on screen at the same time and I need to do a highlight reel for each).

In other words, I have to bring in multiple copies of the main clip and cut out each part. Having to go through each copy of the main clip and then cut out different parts is far more time consuming than it needs to be, especially when there are overlaps (e.g. discussant 2 coming on stage, while discussant 1 is leaving, thus an overlap). (Note: If someone knows a simple way to do this, I'm all ears!)

This creates a real advantage in that you only need to go through a clip once to get all of your sub-clips (and adding metadata), rather than making multiple rounds through, saving a huge amount of time. Especially during the rough assembly because you only need to drag and drop the related clips onto the timeline and then do the fine edits to finalize that timeline.

It gets even better if you can do all of your color correction first and then sub-clip it so that you don't have to correct each one after the fact (why it is better to have this capability built-in rather than use a 3rd party app, such as Kyno).

Another limitation of Resolve's sub-clip function is that you need to specifically enable "expanding" the sub-clip. This is important in the event you mistakenly made the sub-clip too small and need to add a few frames/seconds. If you don't click the "expanding" option, then you are stuck with the size you originally sub-clipped it.

While Resolve does have a very primitive sub-clip function, it is very awkward in that you have to separately rename the clip to something meaningful and you really can't add searchable metadata. Both things that are needed if you have a lot of sub-clips and need to find a specific one. Prelude gives you the option to name each sub-clip and enter metadata on it at the time you mark the in and out points.

I used to use this all the time when I had Adobe CC and Prelude and it made assembling edits much easier from long form recordings (e.g. highlight reels). The ability to use smart bins to automatically group sub-clips (say by name) would be a huge time saver!

Finally, this feature would, at least in my mind, be a forerunner to a full clip management database (i.e. MAM) so that clips could be found (searched for) and assembled from many recordings. This would have applicability to news casts, feature films, sports (highlight reels), weddings, etc. If I remember correctly, this is one of the signature features of Avid.

To be clear, Adobe Prelude is non-destructive. When it "sub-clips", it just creates a XML entry in a file that essentially says "the sub-clip is in this file, starts here, ends here, and the user has attached this metadata". With Resolve's existing database structure, ALL of this functionality could be incorporated into the master database and then be searchable, not only within a particular project, but BETWEEN projects!

[Shrinivas Ramani]

Please take a look at marker clips in the media pool.

This allows you to jog through clips in the source viewer, add markers at critical points, and drag snippets with the marker-duration into the timeline. You can do an intermediate pass to customise names, colors, notes, keywords and snippet duration for these markers as needed and view them in the media pool list mode.

Each snippet dragged in thus is still connected to the original media - so metadata, proxies, finesse edits etc carry over.

Please take a look at marker clips in the media pool.

This allows you to jog through clips in the source viewer, add markers at critical points, and drag snippets with the marker-duration into the timeline. You can do an intermediate pass to customise names, colors, notes, keywords and snippet duration for these markers as needed and view them in the media pool list mode.

Each snippet dragged in thus is still connected to the original media - so metadata, proxies, finesse edits etc carry over.

Thanks for the pointer. I'll take a look. Though I don't know that this will replicate the functionality I'm looking for, I'll give it a try!

Scott

Please take a look at marker clips in the media pool.

This allows you to jog through clips in the source viewer, add markers at critical points, and drag snippets with the marker-duration into the timeline. You can do an intermediate pass to customise names, colors, notes, keywords and snippet duration for these markers as needed and view them in the media pool list mode.

Each snippet dragged in thus is still connected to the original media - so metadata, proxies, finesse edits etc carry over.

As a follow up, I did try working with marker clips. However, I can't see any way to:

1. Add metadata. This is useful so that I can search for sub-clips in large projects. Also, I don't clearly see how I can create overlapping "marked clips" for use in assembling something like highlight reels just by grabbing the pieces, putting them in a timeline, and then adding Intros/transitions/etc.

2. I don't see how I can use something like smart bins to "automagically" sort the marked clips.

FWIW, and I'm really not trying to attack you, but I get the feeling that BMD doesn't really understand the whole idea of sub-clipping. Markers are just not a replacement for sub-clips.

IMO, sub-clips can be thought of as individual clips exported from master clips. The difference is that instead of having to create duplicate files (i.e. clips that already have the data in the master clip) with all of the storage, processing time, etc. issues, you just have an (XML) pointer to the master clip, the in/out TC points, and searchable metadata.

I would really suggest that BMD get a copy of Adobe Prelude and look at how it works. For that matter, I'd be happy to demonstrate how sub-clipping works in this context (with Prelude/Premiere, neither of which I still use). I think that once BMD gets a chance to see how much sub-clipping can help with media logging, efficiency of clip generation, time savings in "lego block" sub-clip timeline assembly, etc. that BMD would see why many of us don't find markers as being a viable "replacement/alternative".

Anyway, thanks for the idea of using markers, but they either just don't do the job I need/want or I completely don't understand what you are trying to show me.

Also, from what I understand of, for instance, the news gathering industry, something like sub-clipping with extensive metadata functionality, is the foundation of a good Video Asset Management system. And having something like that would definitely move Resolve dramatically ahead of programs like Premiere/Final Cut Pro and move it into competition with systems like Avid. And Resolve already has a database system in place to implement this functionality.

Scott

PS. In another "life" I was a database administrator/designer, so I do have some experience with utilizing/creating databases with similar goals, even if in a completely different industries.

[Shrinivas Ramani]

Rather than say this is already possible, I'll include an example DRP with a clip and some marker (sub-)clips. Please make sure Keyword smart bins are enabled and click on the keywords section.

To keep the DRP size down, the subclips in the example are from a generic compound clip. But this concept can be extended to media and timelines and the lot.

Please feel free to experiment more and see how it behaves.

Rather than say this is already possible, I'll include an example DRP with a clip and some marker (sub-)clips. Please make sure Keyword smart bins are enabled and click on the keywords section.

To keep the DRP size down, the subclips in the example are from a generic compound clip. But this concept can be extended to media and timelines and the lot.

Please feel free to experiment more and see how it behaves.

Thanks! I'll take a look at the project file you supplied this week (have a couple things I need to take care of first).

I really appreciate you taking the time to supply the .drp file!

Scott

Rather than say this is already possible, I'll include an example DRP with a clip and some marker (sub-)clips. Please make sure Keyword smart bins are enabled and click on the keywords section.

To keep the DRP size down, the subclips in the example are from a generic compound clip. But this concept can be extended to media and timelines and the lot.

Hey Shrini!

Ok, I was kind of excited to look at the .DRP file you sent and stayed up way too late last night looking at the sample project and playing around with it and the markers you set as I would expect sub-clips to work.

I can see how markers could be helpful for small projects, but, from what I can see (assuming I understand what I'm looking at correctly), there are a few problems that still separate markers from sub-clips in their utility.

(Note: It is quite possible I'm still doing something wrong.)

Here are some of the things I'm having trouble with:

1. You mentioned above that I should "... make sure Keyword smart bins are enabled and click on the keywords section". I did this and tried to create a Smart Bin with the keyword "Scott". It came up with zero clips, even though three of the marked "marker-clips" has the word "Scott" in them (and even at the beginning of their name). I'll admit I might not have been searching the correct "metadata" to get this to come up.

Could you please clarify how you set up the search for the "gluefactory" smart bin?

In addition, the search result for the gluefactory smart bin initially just showed the compound clip and to see the actual search results, I had to click the > by the "compound clip" to get it to reveal the marker clips inside it. Ok, it's only an additional click (per master clip), but if I had 30 plus (separate cameras, multiple events (e.g. gymnastics), or "quarters"/battery changes), that would be a lot of additional clicking, when I just want the marker clips.

2. I don't see how you can enter any (relatively) substantial metadata. While I might only need to worry about separate cameras, dates, times, event names, etc., I can definitely see how this might expand dramatically if I were a news gatherer, documentarian, film maker, etc. with multiple cameras, takes, etc. having to do that every time would be important.

3. To be clear, you were only using a compound clip so that the lower third you set up could be treated as a "regular" clip for the purposes of this example, correct?

4. Is there a limitation to how applying color corrections/grades to the marker clips

5. Sub-clips (as I've used them in Premiere) appear just as though they are "real" clips in Premiere's equivalent of the Media Pool. As far as I can remember, the only way I knew the difference was because of the name of the master clips (e.g. I have a GH5S camera, so they were named something like "PANA0001.MP4") and the sub-clips appeared with the name I gave them.

Sorry if it seems like I don't understand how markers work in DR. It is probably because I HAVEN'T used them before.

Scott

PS. To clarify, I'm using DR 17.2x Studio for my experimentation.

[Shrinivas Ramani]

a. For each media, you have an exhaustive metadata list you can modify and create smart bins off. Marker clips are named ranges of the same media. They inherit the camera, dates, times, director and other values.

b. If you want a separate detached media reference, you can define a subclip. You can then tweak color corrections, LUTs, audio mapping, fps, PAR, metadata, or pretty much anything else for parent and subclip independently. You can create one off an existing media pool clip to get a copy with its tweaks, or directly from media storage to get a fresh copy without tweaks.

Both marker clips and subclips are explained well in the training and in the manual.

c. The Keyword smart bins are auto-created by Resolve when you add a new keyword. They cluster by keywords. It does not care about marker names - or notes or color. If you want to filter clips/markers named "Scott" or only green ones (or a green marker named "Scott"), you can still create explicit smart bins for that.

a. For each media, you have an exhaustive metadata list you can modify and create smart bins off. Marker clips are named ranges of the same media. They inherit the camera, dates, times, director and other values.

Both marker clips and subclips are explained well in the training and in the manual.

c. The Keyword smart bins are auto-created by Resolve when you add a new keyword. They cluster by keywords. It does not care about marker names - or notes or color. If you want to filter clips/markers named "Scott" or only green ones (or a green marker named "Scott"), you can still create explicit smart bins for that.

OK. I don't remember seeing any specific training on either marker clips or marker clips. I'll take a look at this a bit closer.

As for the media metadata, that isn't the metadata I'm talking about. I'm referring to metadata that I can enter in for each subclip. I guess the "Notes" field in the marker clip will work.

However, I can't figure out how to search for it in a Smart Bin. I've looked at the Smart Bins you set up in the example, but I can't figure out how to get a Smart Bin set up for myself that will find text in the "Notes" field.

b. If you want a separate detached media reference, you can define a subclip. You can then tweak color corrections, LUTs, audio mapping, fps, PAR, metadata, or pretty much anything else for parent and subclip independently. You can create one off an existing media pool clip to get a copy with its tweaks, or directly from media storage to get a fresh copy without tweaks.

And here we get to the crux of the issue with the differences between marker clips and subclips. What you have listed above, in "b." are many of the things that we want to be able to do AND Smart Bin and "lego" timeline creation.

You seem to have focused on just a part of my original post in this thread. Even in the OP, I only listed a few of the things that a complete subclipping feature set can do. And having a more complete subclipping feature set can set Resolve up to become an actual media asset management (MAM) platform for video editors (even to compete with one like AVID).

Additionally, I want a way to "Name" the subclips so that I can easily identify them as I'm looking through a bin with many subclips.

FWIW, I can see how the Cut page would work very well as a subclipping page.

Also, I have tried subclipping your example project and the subclipping option doesn't even appear for in/out points set. Has Blackmagic REMOVED this feature. I'm pretty sure I was doing the process the same. I even tried "Alt-B" to get a subclip made, but it didn't work. I'm using Resolve 17.2.

Thanks for your help!

Scott

Also, I have tried subclipping your example project and the subclipping option doesn't even appear for in/out points set. Has Blackmagic REMOVED this feature. I'm pretty sure I was doing the process the same. I even tried "Alt-B" to get a subclip made, but it didn't work. I'm using Resolve 17.2.

They have not. Works for me when set in/out points in the Source Viewer on a media clip.

Also, you should upgrade to 17.3. Now when you add a SubClip (eg with Alt+B), you get a dialogue in which you can instantly rename it (if you want):


Much more convenient than it was before.

Also, I have tried subclipping your example project and the subclipping option doesn't even appear for in/out points set. Has Blackmagic REMOVED this feature. I'm pretty sure I was doing the process the same. I even tried "Alt-B" to get a subclip made, but it didn't work. I'm using Resolve 17.2.

They have not. Works for me when set in/out points in the Source Viewer on a media clip.

Also, you should upgrade to 17.3. Now when you add a SubClip (eg with Alt+B), you get a dialogue in which you can instantly rename it (if you want):


Much more convenient than it was before.

Wow! That feature you just listed was a feature request I had in another thread! Whoohoo!

Anyway, I'll try downloading 17.3 and try again. I was using the Source window to set the in/out points and tried Alt-B to create a subclip and the "Create Subclip" option was grayed out under the Mark menu pull-down. I don't know why. Also, when I right-clicked the in/out marked section, Create Sub-Clip was no longer an option. I've looked at videos from Resolve 16 and that was an option.

I've also tried to sub-clip with other projects. No joy.

FWIW, I don't see why creating a subclip needs to be done only with the source window. IMO, it should be doable anywhere you can create in/out markers.

As I said above, I'll try downloading 17.3 and look at it again. I usually wait awhile before downloading a new release (point or major (a la 18)) to make sure any show stopper bugs aren't included.

Thanks for pointing out this new feature with 17.3!

Scott

I downloaded 17.3 and still can't create a subclip. This is a real bummer. Same problem as described in my previous post. It seems like it should be SO OBVIOUS, but OBVIOUSLY I'm missing some secret step. Ironically, one that I used to know because I've used subclips in projects before. Arrgh!

Scott

I downloaded 17.3 and still can't create a subclip. This is a real bummer. Same problem as described in my previous post. It seems like it should be SO OBVIOUS, but OBVIOUSLY I'm missing some secret step. Ironically, one that I used to know because I've used subclips in projects before. Arrgh!

Scott

This is the method I use to make a subclip:

1. On Media, Cut or Edit pages: double* click some clip in the media pool to view it. If you have two viewers open, it'll appear in the left (source) viewer. If only one viewer is visible, it'll appear in that viewer.
2. Optionally set in/out points.
3. Alt/Option + B, which as of 17.3 will now show the New Subclip dialogue.

Works for me every time. Can you show a screen recording of it not working for you?

* on the Media page, only a single click is needed.

This is the method I use to make a subclip:

1. On Media, Cut or Edit pages: double* click some clip in the media pool to view it. If you have two viewers open, it'll appear in the left (source) viewer. If only one viewer is visible, it'll appear in that viewer.
2. Optionally set in/out points.
3. Alt/Option + B, which as of 17.3 will now show the New Subclip dialogue.

Works for me every time. Can you show a screen recording of it not working for you?

* on the Media page, only a single click is needed.

OK, I tried what you suggested above and it still doesn't work. Here is a link to a brief screen recording showing how it doesn't work. Please note that I DID double click the video clip in the timeline.

Scott

OK I see. Simple solution: double click from the media pool, not from within a timeline.

It seems like sub clips are not available when you double-click clips on a timeline. I think because this is a slightly different mode - you're now accessing that clip on that timeline; if you change in/out points in this mode, you actually change what portion of that clip is on the timeline, editing the timeline. Because it's a different mode, sub clips are not supported here - if it was, you might try to set in/out as well and end up changing your timeline.

As a separate point, it makes it easier to see what's what when two viewers are visible. (And I just realised that that button to choose between one or two viewers doesn't appear if the UI window is too small!)

Here's a quick demonstration of all that to make sure it's clear:

If the clip you want to subclip is on a timeline, you can use "Find In Media Pool" (Alt/Option-F) to immediately jump to it in the media pool, then open it from the media pool and subclip it. I just thought of mentioning that so it's not included in the video.

OK I see. Simple solution: double click from the media pool, not from within a timeline.

It seems like sub clips are not available when you double-click clips on a timeline. I think because this is a slightly different mode - you're now accessing that clip on that timeline; if you change in/out points in this mode, you actually change what portion of that clip is on the timeline, editing the timeline. Because it's a different mode, sub clips are not supported here - if it was, you might try to set in/out as well and end up changing your timeline.

As a separate point, it makes it easier to see what's what when two viewers are visible. (And I just realised that that button to choose between one or two viewers doesn't appear if the UI window is too small!)

Here's a quick demonstration of all that to make sure it's clear:

{Video link deleted for reply...}

If the clip you want to subclip is on a timeline, you can use "Find In Media Pool" (Alt/Option-F) to immediately jump to it in the media pool, then open it from the media pool and subclip it. I just thought of mentioning that so it's not included in the video.

Ok. That DOES work on my system. Thanks for the help.

However, I maintain that is a VERY awkward workflow, not to mention not at all intuitive.

As a feature request I would MUCH rather do this from the Edit page on my timeline. This would be the first step in logging the footage. Since I'm just creating subclips that go directly into the media pool, it wouldn't affect the current timeline and fits into my current workflow. YMMV.

I'd also like to have the opportunity to add some additional metadata. At least allow me to add to the Notes metadata so I can have something to search for Smart Bins.

Personally, I haven't found a good use for the Cut page in my workflow. However, if I could use the Cut page to create all of my subclips, then that would be a killer application for it that I would use all the time. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, the Cut page doesn't allow the creation of subclips.

BTW, THANK YOU for your help in showing me how to get subclips working. I would have sworn it was easier to do in Resolve 15 or 16(ish), but I could well be wrong.

Anyway, thanks again!

Scott