Ability to create a timeline with any framerate

As it says in the title.

I would like to see a box next to "Timeline Frame Rate" on the "Crate New Timeline" popup, where we can type any framerate.

I'm literally stuck now because I need to edit a sequence of images at 12 fps (and another project at 10).

Thanks

1) why those frame rates?
2) What's stopping you from doing setting the timeline at double that framerate and duplicate each picture?

That sounds like a painful workaround.
Either way this sounds like a reasonable feature request. Don’t know how hard it is of course.


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I just put a 15 fps clip on a 30 fps timeline and it automatically doubles the frames to fit the 30 fps.

Which timecode will you use at 10 fps? And how will you play it back?

Sounds like the final delivery is a .gif animation or something. If so, I would just have the timeline at double/triple the frame rate and then decimate when converting to .gif.

Sounds like the final delivery is a .gif animation or something. If so, I would just have the timeline at double/triple the frame rate and then decimate when converting to .gif.

But a .gif, does have a frame rate per se?

I was thinking that I can keep the frame rate at 24 and in the settings manually change the playback frames to 10, that will give you a 10 fps playback, but I dont know if that suits teh OP.

The converters I've seen do use the source frame rate if the source is video, but since they almost certainly use ffmpeg there should be some flexibility to adjust during the conversion as well. If you convert from an image sequence you have to specify the frame rate of course.

Frame rate isn't really the correct term I guess, since .gif playback speed is set by the pause in milliseconds between the images.

Sorry OP for going off topic if this isn't what you're doing.

Roger, in that respect, once you export a tiff sequence, you don’t have a frame rate per se, if you’re just doing a gif banner, you can probably setup the delay during the making itself…

Correct, and then he should be able to use your slowed playback trick in Resolve if the timing is important for editing. Lots of options.

I assume the hesitancy of adding non-standard frame rates in Resolve is because that isn't likely to work when viewing it through their DeckLink/UltraStudio hardware connected to a random monitor.

Mmm

These particular framerates are not really relevant to the change I would like to see.
I could be 2 fps, 8, ... etc. It's like the lowest we can select, 16 and 18. I'm sure there are reasons for these, but why not having complet control of it. 1 to 120 (the max possible, I see people asking for 240, but that's just for the max limit, the what's in between

The goal is to be able to use Resolve to grade an images sequences, not having any duplicate frames (or interpolated frames) during the playback or rendered. In a video format, or a new images sequences (with edits baked in) for use somewhere else.

This is no my case, but imagine a stop-motions animation. If I did one at 8 fps, I would like to have a clean render at 8 fps.

But In my case, I'm working with something that outputs 12 frames per second.
It creates the individuals frames, and a h264 file too. I want to use my killer application, Resolve, to edit these a the native framerate.

For the GIF comment, well, it's very pertinent too. If I want to create a WEBM file (way better than GIF), from any video, the lowest fps is 16, maybe 16 will make a too big file when converted to WEBM. So you can tell ffmpeg the precise fps you want your webm, and it will - But again, the result is "ok" but unpredictable, ffmpeg will strip frames to fit the 8,10, or 12 fps for the animation.

Anyway, a "custom" option for the fps would be nice.

Yes to this request

Yes to this request

Can you make a case for it? Because i dont see the need, giving that at the end you’re forced to go to some standard…

Should I be allowed to do 135 frames per second?

Can you make a case for it? Because i dont see the need, giving that at the end you’re forced to go to some standard… Should I be allowed to do 135 frames per second?

I totally agree with Walter. There's only so many deliverable frame rates, and "any" is not a choice you can make. You have to live with the display devices that are out there in the real world: monitors and projectors can only handle so many framerates.

Some years ago, film restoration people begged Blackmagic to provide a 16fps setting, which really was a standard for silent movies in the 1920s (and even through the 1960s). Right now, we have 16fps, 18fps, 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 47.95 (!), 48, 50, 59.94, 60, 72, 95.90, 96, 100, 119.88, and 120fps. To the O.P.: You really want more speeds than that? For what venue?

Can you all read?

It's insane how these responses have nothing to do with what's asked.

I'm asking to be able to set any framerate manually, from 1 to whatever the max is they decided for Resolve, that's it! Nothing fancy, nothing crazy!

Why? Because I want (and other people too) to be able to work with any framerate... WITH RESOLVE! Because some projects require it, or because it's an artistic choice... whatever the reason is.

I want to be able to grade, and do my work on my 10-12 fps videos... in Resolve, because Resolve is a video editor, and it can edit videos.

How hard is it to understand this very simple request. Nobody is asking for a drop-down menu with every single frame rate!

All of this blabla is like gossip, it feeds something that doesn't exist. Then you start to argue from the new point of view about how it's not needed! - I see that constantly!

It BLOWS MY MIND how some "pros" don't understand basic concepts like this. It's not for you, okay? You don't have to use it. But there is a whole BIGGER world with MORE people editing videos than those who edit for films, or documentaries, or whatever.

At some point, people started to film at 24 fps, it didn't exist before... the chicken and the egg uh.

I totally agree with Walter. There's only so many deliverable frame rates, and "any" is not a choice you can make. You have to live with the display devices that are out there in the real world: monitors and projectors can only handle so many framerates.

When I read that, I really think I'm in a twiling zone or something... Why are you even shifting the subject.

Just a side note (which is not what I was talking about), there are 240hz monitors out there too. And I used the 240 fps example base someone's request.

But yeah, don't produce 8k content because 4k is not even the majority of TVs in people's house

It's another hijacked thread by people who are just here to argue about literally nothing. There's already one that does that constantly,... with his "I vote no".

Do like many of us, if you can't give good counter points, examples that would show how bad it would be for the users, how it would "break" something, or whatever... just say nothing... how hard is that?

Do you see me or other going thread to thread just to argue without giving anything logical and good counter points to the feature requests? no...

Can you all read?

There's no call for that kind of talk on here. Lighten up man.

No one has been abusive to you, other members are asking what purpose this would serve. Whether you like it or not, you are requesting that Resolve expand beyond industry standard frame rates, frame rates that exist from TikTok to IMAX, it's up to you to justify it, there's no need to go super defensive about it.

Can you all read?

There's no call for that kind of talk on here. Lighten up man.

No one has been abusive to you, other members are asking what purpose this would serve. Whether you like it or not, you are requesting that Resolve expand beyond industry standard frame rates, frame rates that exist from TikTok to IMAX, it's up to you to justify it, there's no need to go super defensive about it.

Never said someone was abusive to me. You can say whatever to me, if it makes sense and can make me change my mind, I don't care if it looks "mean" if I can't argue against facts, or very logical reasoning.

No, I'm not asking for "Resolve expand beyond industry standard frame rates"... I'm asking for flexibility in the framerates by just... letting people choose anything they need for THEIR projects.

I have two posts about it, explaining it... Yes, I have to get defensive when people are derailing the subject, OR when they attache it to something that is not relevant to the situation. There is no relation to Hollywood, or tiktok, or any "standard".

how my god, some people would like to be able to edit 2,5,10,12 fps videos with the tools in Resolve...

And i'm irritated because I see this all the time, on many other threads, for the past 2 years...

When I really think about, I wouldn't even have to justify anything, because we're supposed to be on a forum used by "creative people" too, no? So the "framerate" is just one of the pieces of a video project.

I just have to say : Stop-motion. - It's something that should come ton anyone's mind.

It's logical and makes sense to be able to set any framerate for a timeline (bellow the max it can handle). Because it's a creative choice and there is no reasons against it except : I don't want it - Which makes no sense because it takes nothing from anyone, nothing from the "industry", nothing from the "monitors on which the videos are played", etc.

I have no problems with someone pointing at the potential problems of a requested feature, or someone that gives clear and logical examples on how something would be not good for the users.

I have a problem when someone change the subject (or adds things that have no relation to it), then argue against the new thing they created themselves.

Maxwell, what it looks like a “simple” request, it is really difficult to engineer: think for a secodn about the whole engine behind it and specifically the timecode: there is simply no specification (and no way to do) what you are asking for, short of drop teh timecode entirely that is a cornerstone of every NLE.

Same for playback: while it “can” work on some devices, the vast majority of devices (and all teh decklinks) will burp at it.

So, while it is conceptually a fair request, unless you make a strong case for it, it will not be implemented.

Having said that, resolve is looking more and more to the internet/social media market (look at the introduction of resolve for Ipad), so there could be some future update.

Looking another way, can you point out a software that allow infinite frame rates to the community so we can have a look?

Thanks!

Maxwell, what it looks like a “simple” request, it is really difficult to engineer: think for a secodn about the whole engine behind it and specifically the timecode: there is simply no specification (and no way to do) what you are asking for, short of drop teh timecode entirely that is a cornerstone of every NLE.

Same for playback: while it “can” work on some devices, the vast majority of devices (and all teh decklinks) will burp at it.

So, while it is conceptually a fair request, unless you make a strong case for it, it will not be implemented.

Having said that, resolve is looking more and more to the internet/social media market (look at the introduction of resolve for Ipad), so there could be some future update.

Looking another way, can you point out a software that allow infinite frame rates to the community so we can have a look?

Thanks!

Actually (and I have zero experience with the programming side of things so take this with a grain of salt) I don't think adding the ability to set a custom frame rate is a big thing to implement.

On the side of monitoring devices, you would't even need that. You could stick to the standard 24, 25, 30 etc. frame rates that are already available, the same way that there are only standard resolutions for monitoring available like HD, 2K, UHD... but still the timeline can be set to a custom resolution, that get's letterboxes or pillarboxes on output.

A few things come to mind for custom fps. Stop motion, animation, sure why not. A lot of other software allows you to do that. Premiere and even some free open source software. So why not.

I want to be able to grade, and do my work on my 10-12 fps videos... in Resolve, because Resolve is a video editor, and it can edit videos.

Not all of them.

Resolve is professional software designed for professional productions. It won't serve all needs, nor should it.

Consumer level software is often a better choice for non-standard productions.

I find Marc and Walter's arguments convincing. I vote no.

Any custom functionality in any software means there is also custom proprietary specification of that functionality. For custom frame rate, timecode run can also have custom proprietary spec. It won’t be interchangeable with other NLEs just as any of the other bazillion custom functionalities Resolve has.

I want to be able to grade, and do my work on my 10-12 fps videos... in Resolve, because Resolve is a video editor, and it can edit videos.

Not all of them.

Resolve is professional software designed for professional productions. It won't serve all needs, nor should it.

Consumer level software is often a better choice for non-standard productions.

I find Marc and Walter's arguments convincing. I vote no.

Resolve is a free consumer level software, didn't you hear? They added support of tons of things you said it wasn't for "pros", or "consumer level" bla bla... lol they added so many new and cool things in resolve you were against.

And you still don't understand that people who use a software doesn't make it "consumer" or not. It's just marketing words. Anything can be "consumer" level. What's important is what people do with the tools they have.

This feature request has nothing to do with the people who use it. You're not a creative person, it shows. Because you can't even being to express a valid counter argument.

It's about flexibility,.... and creativity.

And again, you give ZERO valid and logical counter arguments, expected. You realize that Resolve like any video editor is about ... editing videos? And videos have many style, and flavors. Things evolve

Who needs, 50fps, everyone should, at ANYTIME, shoot, and edit at 24fps, and there should be NO options anyone else.

Sounds ridiculous right, you're just here talking about it as if things never evolved lol.

I vote yes 4 times, your useless "vote no" just went away, sorry ((

Which other editing/compositing software offers timelines with any frame rate?

Which other editing/compositing software offers timelines with any frame rate?

Why should Resolve be limited with what other softwares can do? Should BMD also remove all existing functionality other softwares can't do?

Which other editing/compositing software offers timelines with any frame rate?

Why should Resolve be limited with what other softwares can do? Should BMD also remove all existing functionality other softwares can't do?

I asked a straight question and you assumed I was being sarcastic.
I ask again...
Do any other apps offer the feature of unrestricted frame rates? If so which are they? They would be interesting to investigate.

Which other editing/compositing software offers timelines with any frame rate?

Why should Resolve be limited with what other softwares can do? Should BMD also remove all existing functionality other softwares can't do?

I asked a straight question and you assumed I was being sarcastic.
I ask again...
Do any other apps offer the feature of unrestricted frame rates? If so which are they? They would be interesting to investigate.

After Effects allows you to make comps of any resolution/framerate

[Tony Rivera]

Discussion about topics such as this are welcome but let us keep in mind that this a part of the forums where people can suggest feature requests so that the engineering team can evaluate said requests.

I would also like to state that in discussions such as this, we ask that we keep on topic and that we use this space to have intelligent and educational conversation and not talk down to each other. You are certainly welcome to state your case but do so in a respectful manner so that we can keep threads and this section open for everyone.

Discussion about topics such as this are welcome but let us keep in mind that this a part of the forums where people can suggest feature requests so that the engineering team can evaluate said requests.

I would also like to state that in discussions such as this, we ask that we keep on topic and that we use this space to have intelligent and educational conversation and not talk down to each other. You are certainly welcome to state your case but do so in a respectful manner so that we can keep threads and this section open for everyone.

Yeah you're right, I was on edge because I don't get logical counter arguments.
I have zero problem when someone points at things that could be problematic for a feature request. And it's hard to keep calm when the problematic (and the solution) is right in front of people's eyes, and just don't "want" to have something.

But I'll do my best myself to stop interacting with people who have this mindset, sorry.

Well, today I had to work on a 8 fps video.

So what I had to do :
I put it on a 16fps timeline, did the color correction (and removed some object, which was a bit of a pain with duplicate frames) and restore some of the frames, export, delete the duplicates from the folder. They didn't want my images sequences anyway so I gave them 2 files that I had to make with ffmpeg.

One that can be used right away, simple mp4 file (that replace the version they had online), and another one in DNxHR 444 10-bit so they can work on it for something else. They don't want to keep the images sequences, just a single video file, that's how it is.

Fortunately, the video wasn't to long.

Now that I tested this workflow, which took more time and add complexity (which adds more possible mistakes), I'll use it on my "stop-motion-like" videos that are at 12 fps. Fortunately, I don't have to add any text or moving things on it because I would be screwed.

That is why this feature request exists, to allow specifying ANY framerate < "max fr BMD decides to implement"

It is totally fine from BMD to think "well we don't want to do that" (without giving any reason, their product), they decide what goes in their software... good or bad decisions, we'll never know anyway....but NOT fine from users that get nothing taken away from them, breaks nothing in Resolve at all, and add more flexibility... for everyone.

Yes I get heated when arguments are just based on feeling that has no connection with the actual thing.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure the people who were against some format implemented recently are not feeling that it shouldn't be there. Because it doesn't change a core functionality, and doesn't break a workflow (it enhances it).

Imagine if we only had 4k, 1080p, and now way to type in other resolutions (and it's still a bit limited, since regularly see people asking to be apple to use non-conventional resolution).

Anyway, this was my last comment on this subject. I hope BMD will consider the logical (and "artistic") need behind this feature request.

Edit: We can already change any clip to any framerate

Maxwell, I dont understand your workflow, i think there is a better way.

1) make a timeline at 24fps (standard).
2) load your 8fps material, flag it as 24fps (so the machine does not try to speed it up).
3) in the project settings, set the playback manually to 8fps

You will see the frames played at the correctly 8fps without any duplication.

Maxwell, I dont understand your workflow, i think there is a better way.

1) make a timeline at 24fps (standard).
2) load your 8fps material, flag it as 24fps (so the machine does not try to speed it up).
3) in the project settings, set the playback manually to 8fps

You will see the frames played at the correctly 8fps without any duplication.

I was just about to recommend the same thing.

treat it as an image sequence for now and set the playback to 8fps. before you render you can pre comp the entire timeline and set the speed to 33% to have it play in stop motion inside the rendered video.

But I still agree
+1 on custom frame rate

I totally agree that variable frame rates should be options for working in the timeline and also for export. I'm an archivist, we scan 16mm films that were shot at 12FPS and the scan outputs to 12FPS. These 12FPS files are then able to playback at 12FPS on VLC. I'm also a filmmaker who shoots in variable speed, but I cannot color neutralize the negative in DR and output to 12FPS. I believe 16 and 18 are supported for this very reason, but DR should also at least allow for 12FPS.

+1

I totally agree that variable frame rates should be options for working in the timeline and also for export. I'm an archivist, we scan 16mm films that were shot at 12FPS and the scan outputs to 12FPS. These 12FPS files are then able to playback at 12FPS on VLC. I'm also a filmmaker who shoots in variable speed, but I cannot color neutralize the negative in DR and output to 12FPS. I believe 16 and 18 are supported for this very reason, but DR should also at least allow for 12FPS.

Thanks for sharing this.
Another example why this need to be implemented

I have brought up this feature request before, and I think it is a must-have for a few niche use cases. In your example, you showed that you wanted to make use of timeline frame rates below the current minimum. I wanted to be able to use 240 FPS as a timeline (higher than the current maximum of 120 FPS). I definitely think the best way to approach this would be to add a custom input where an integer (or better yet floating point) could be defined for any custom timeline frame rate we want. You can already do this for resolution, so why not frame rate?

I have brought up this feature request before, and I think it is a must-have for a few niche use cases. In your example, you showed that you wanted to make use of timeline frame rates below the current minimum. I wanted to be able to use 240 FPS as a timeline (higher than the current maximum of 120 FPS). I definitely think the best way to approach this would be to add a custom input where an integer (or better yet floating point) could be defined for any custom timeline frame rate we want. You can already do this for resolution, so why not frame rate?

because it is not as trivial.

how do you intend to solve the Timecode issue with infinite frame rates?

because it is not as trivial.

how do you intend to solve the Timecode issue with infinite frame rates?

I'm not a developer, but I can't imagine this would be an impossible task. If they already have support for 50 Hz and 60 Hz, why would we not be able to work in direct multiples of those frame rates, at least?

If something that is 30 FPS is added to a 120 FPS timeline, the 30 FPS clip will have three "duplicated" frames and one "real" frame. If a native 120 FPS clip is added to a 120 FPS timeline, it will work as intended. I don't see why this logic wouldn't work with a 480 FPS timeline, for example. The 120 FPS clip would behave identically to the 30 FPS clip in the previous example.

because it is not as trivial.

how do you intend to solve the Timecode issue with infinite frame rates?

I'm not a developer, but I can't imagine this would be an impossible task. If they already have support for 50 Hz and 60 Hz, why would we not be able to work in direct multiples of those frame rates, at least?

If something that is 30 FPS is added to a 120 FPS timeline, the 30 FPS clip will have three "duplicated" frames and one "real" frame. If a native 120 FPS clip is added to a 120 FPS timeline, it will work as intended. I don't see why this logic wouldn't work with a 480 FPS timeline, for example. The 120 FPS clip would behave identically to the 30 FPS clip in the previous example.

I think we can probably use millisecond at that point for non SMPTE timelines speeds..... that could work to a point.

after effects lets you enter any frame rate and seams to handle the timecode ok.
For the broadcast monitor it just maps it to the closest standard.

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 9.30.35 am.png (45.92 KiB) Viewed 1619 times

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 9.30.24 am.png (11.8 KiB) Viewed 1619 times

after effects lets you enter any frame rate and seams to handle the timecode ok.
For the broadcast monitor it just maps it to the closest standard.

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 9.30.35 am.png

Screen Shot 2023-01-18 at 9.30.24 am.png

I wonder why Adobe don't allow this functionality with Premiere Pro?
Avid, FCP etc also can't do it.

I wonder why Adobe don't allow this functionality with Premiere Pro? Avid, FCP etc also can't do it.

I also think Baselight, Colorfront, Lustre, Mistika, Nucoda, and Pablo can only handle "normal" video or film frame rates. Anything beyond the usual 16, 18, 24, 30, 48, 60 (etc.) rates have no venues for playback. In other words, in won't work on YouTube, Vimeo, network TV, cable, broadcast, home video, and so on. Note also that there are limitations with displays as far as what framerates they can handle: some oddball frequency -- like 7Hz or 14Hz or some weird number like that -- could very well result in a non-sync situation and no visible picture.

SMPTE timecode is still limited to a maximum of 30fps, but there are committees working on "granular" timecodes and framerates. This stuff has been discussed for years, but the math presents some really, really challenging problems. This is not a simple situation when you consider that everything that happens in a moving image in a digital system depends on timecode to keep the framerate at a constant speed. I often say, "timecode is the railroad tracks on which the whole post-production train runs. Without timecode... train falls off tracks."

A SMPTE insider told me they're even working on a variable timecode scheme, so you could slide back and forth between 16fps, 24fps, 48fps, and other frame rates and do it dynamically. But when you consider how sound has to keep up with picture, and all the other departments (VFX, color, etc.) have to work alongside that... it becomes a very complicated situation. Merely saying "I want any framerate I want" kind of goes against a hundred years of post-production traditions. Even within those limits, there's a lot you can do... but at some point, anything you're working on has got to be shown via streaming or broadcast or on a disc or in a theater, and if your standards aren't compatible with theirs... well... train falls off tracks. I have seen some horrible, horrible timecode disasters in my time (some that led to thousands of dollars of costly fixes), and a lot of it stems from neophyte filmmakers not understanding the strict limitations of digital workflow and also the need to test what they're doing in production before they try it on a project.

Thanks for the lengthy comment.
I have shared your experience of timecode disasters and agree 100%,
It's easy to demand features, but hard to see potential issues if one has limited experience.

This thread has gotten pretty long. Given the above discussion, might the OP restate their need, perhaps in less general terms than "any framerate?" If it's just multiples of standard framerates there may be a simpler solution that'd get the job done.

This whole thread is getting ridiculous lol.

01:37:14:12 = 1 hour, 37 minutes, 14 seconds and 12 frames - Amazing, right? Then it goes to 01:37:15:00. What's complicated in that.

24 frames put on the screen each second, 12, 18, or 120. It's the same... computers must be very smart when we use 23.976, they must be so confused!!! Or maybe they are good at "math", devs knows how to send images screens for 30+ years. It's just math at the end of the day.

[quote]It's easy to demand features, but hard to see potential issues if one has limited experience./quote]
There is no issues. It's the most basic feature ever. Let BMD figure it out by themselves if they want to implement it, and if they do, I'm pretty sure THEIR devs will know how to send 1 to 120 (or whatever) number of image each sec on screens, and update any "number" accordingly.

This thread has gotten pretty long. Given the above discussion, might the OP restate their need, perhaps in less general terms than "any framerate?" If it's just multiples of standard framerates there may be a simpler solution that'd get the job done.

Well, any round number between 1 and the maximum BMD wants to support would be a start.
The max is 120 fps now, so 1 to 120 (I said that in one of my old response).

I used a general term because I was just suggesting a general (and open) idea to BMD. How it should work, how it can be implemented (or not) is up to them.

This whole thread is getting ridiculous lol.

01:37:14:12 = 1 hour, 37 minutes, 14 seconds and 12 frames - Amazing, right? Then it goes to 01:37:15:00. What's complicated in that.

24 frames put on the screen each second, 12, 18, or 120. It's the same... computers must be very smart when we use 23.976, they must be so confused!!! Or maybe they are good at "math", devs knows how to send images screens for 30+ years. It's just math at the end of the day.

It's easy to demand features, but hard to see potential issues if one has limited experience./quote]
There is no issues. It's the most basic feature ever. Let BMD figure it out by themselves if they want to implement it, and if they do, I'm pretty sure THEIR devs will know how to send 1 to 120 (or whatever) number of image each sec on screens, and update any "number" accordingly.

Timecode standards are a thing though - Other SDI/HDMI devices/software/aafs etc need to be able to communicate with resolve in the pipe. Not saying it can't be done - but there might be more to it as to why they have not implemented it. After effects does not need to worry about this so much as there is not as much meta-data interchange and monitoring it accurately over SDI is not the main priority.

Since we can export GIFs now, another reason to be able to use custom framerates.

I would love to have webp too, because it's lighter and can handle transparency better. And being able to post them on the forum would be big plus instead of sharing link to videos

Now we can import them... but we are still stuck with fixed framerates (for no reasons) for the timelines.

GIFs can be 2,5, 10, 403435 fps.

Another reasons to unlock it, and give us a textfield where we can just add the fps of a timeline... 2 to 240 (or whatever the max could be for Resolve)

+1
In Adobe Premiere you can also change the framerate of a sequence after it was created!