Overhaul the "Compound Clip" vs. Nested Timeline system

The current method of "nesting" clips is a confusing, and oftentimes dangerous mess. Compound Clips have so many "caveats" and limitations (intentional or otherwise) that I avoid them at all costs.

The only real advantage to Compound Clips that I've seen so far is that they do not pollute Timeline dropdown menus, which is a very good thing. If there are any other advantages to Compound Clips, I'd love to hear about them!

So even though I hate them, I do think it's worth having the functional distinction between a "Compound Clip" and a "Nested Timeline". The problem, however, is that there is no mechanism to create a true Nested Timeline from clips that have already been edited into the timeline. And to compound the problem (no pun intended), the fact that the option to create a Compound Clip from selected timeline clips exists means that many people will unwittingly use Compound Clips, thinking that they are functionally equivalent to Nested Timeline, when they most definitely are not. In my case, I found out WAY too late in my editing process to realize that Compound Clips are the devil in electronic form.

Because of this, I propose that the act of creating a "nest" of clips be unified into a single dialog box called "Nest Clips", and that this dialog offer the option of creating the nest as a Compound Clip, or as a Nested Timeline. Not only will this enable the (currently unavailable) option to send selected timeline clips into a nested timeline, but it will also make it clear to the user that there is an actual distinction between Compound Clips and Nested Timelines.

A corollary to this feature, however, is that the glaring limitations of Compound Clips need to be addressed, regardless. Aside from their exclusion from Timeline dropdown lists, there should be NO functional differences and/or limitations between Compound Clips and simple Nested Timelines.

Very curious, what are the caveats and limitations you are running into with compound clips?

Very curious, what are the caveats and limitations you are running into with compound clips?

These are the limitations that I've run into:

• Compound Clips do not cache.
• Unlike standard timelines, Compound Clips cannot have their Starting Timecode modified after they have been created
• Compound Clips do not honor Clip Level Blanking Overrides
• You cannot perform a "Reconform From Bins/Media Storage" on the contents of a Compound Clip

+1 to the request : the distinction between CCs and Timelines seems needlessly confusing. I would be much in favour of it being simplified, and definitely for all features to be unified. If Compound Clips are to stay, then I cannot see any justification for Compound Clips to be less capable than Timelines.

Also, I just discovered another arbitrary Compound Clip vs Timeline distinction:

Compound Clips can be a valid target of a "Reconform From Bin" operation, but Timelines cannot.

I'm just in the process of making my own feature request, requesting that Timeline clips can be valid targets for Reconform From Bin, and in the process realised that actually Compound Clips already work.

There is a crash bug if you try to use Filename matching with Compound Clips, which I'll report separately.

I can see the value in the option, but suggest a simpler implementation.

Simply add New Nested Timeline... right under New Compound Clip... at the top of the right click dialog.

I can see the value in the option, but suggest a simpler implementation.

Simply add New Nested Timeline... right under New Compound Clip... at the top of the right click dialog.

A simpler option would be to unify the choices in a single dialog box, because from a user perspective, they are both similar ways of "nesting" clips. There's no sense in adding more noise to the contextual menu.

That said, if this action is unified in a single dialog, there definitely needs to be seperate keyboard mappings for each action, for those who always prefer one action over the other.

A simpler option would be to unify the choices in a single dialog box

We disagree on that.

But it'd be a welcome feature however it shows up.

+1, same goes a little bit for multicam timelines

+1, same goes a little bit for multicam timelines

Yes - I just ran into this. I have a Multicam clip created at 1920x1080, and I want to change it to 2560x1440. Of course I can't, because Multicam clips, like Compound Clips, have no Timeline Settings accessible.

Then I realised that actually there's no way to have a MC clip with a different resolution to the project. If I want one 2560x1440 Multicam, I must change the entire project to 2560x1440, which means all MC and Compound Clips will now be that resolution. There's no ability to choose different resolutions for MC and CCs, like there is for Timelines.

I really think that fundamentally there should be only one type of multi-media clip: the Timeline. Compound, Multicam and Fusion clips should all be variants of Timelines, differing only in their key details (eg MC clips being usable for Multicam), and in not appearing in the Timeline dropdown.

They should start out sharing all functionality - configurable resolution, ability to access settings, being usable with Reconform From Bins (and also as Reconform From Bins targets), availability in context menus, and everything else.

Agreed.
As for Multicam timelines, though I hate the idea of just copying Premiere on the subject -- it is much simpler and more efficient. I love that every 'nested' sequence can turn into a multicam timeline at the click of a button, and vice versa.
It's one of the very few things I miss from Premiere Pro.

Agreed.
As for Multicam timelines, though I hate the idea of just copying Premiere on the subject -- it is much simpler and more efficient. I love that every 'nested' sequence can turn into a multicam timeline at the click of a button, and vice versa.
It's one of the very few things I miss from Premiere Pro.

Absolutely.

It seems to me that Timeline vs Compound vs MC vs Fusion should really just be a simple tag/attribute. They should all be of the same base type, sharing the same core functionality, and differ only in this tag.

Then Resolve can adjust its functionality where necessary according to the value of this tag, such as populating the Timeline dropdown or not, enabling the Multicam viewer or not, etc. But this should be the only functional difference.

Then there should be a menu (both main menu and context) from which any of these clip types can be changed to any of the other types: Timeline to MC, Compound or Fusion; MC to Compound or Timeline or Fusion; etc.

That would also reinforce to the user the fact that these are all basically the same thing, just used in slightly different contexts.

I think TheBloke has the right idea. “Timelines” of all variations should be considered “Clips” as far as the Media Pool is concerned. This way you could just invoke the “Clip Attributes” menu option on selected timelines, and just change the “timeline type” to Compound, Multicam, etc., and any type-specific options would be selectable in the same dialog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I just discovered another arbitrary and frustrating limitation:

You can't use the Deliver page on the contents of a Compound Clip or Fusion Clip. The Add To Render Queue button always remains greyed out, regardless of settings.

I don't get it - why disable this? The Deliver page shows the contents of the Fusion Clip just fine, so it recognises that it's timeline-like content. It's purely the Add To Render Queue button that won't work.

In this case I wanted it for rendering Individual Clips out of a number of Fusion Clips for green-screen keying, which once processed I will Reconform From Bins to replace the original media clips.

A workaround is to copy the contents of each Fusion Clip into a new Timeline, and Deliver that timeline. It's only one extra step, but I have to do this on 10+ Fusion Clips, so those extra steps add up.

And another arbitrary limitation: there's no Decompose In Place option for Fusion Clips.

I'm all in favor of the suggested universal Nest command with options for which kind!

Here's another inconsistency with the current system: in the Cut Page you can't make a Fusion clip but you can make a Compound clip.

OMG, I've fallen into a rats nest with this thread!

Yeah, timelines, compound clips, MC timelines. They all need an overhaul and unity across the board.

One other thing to point out with CC that I haven't seen mentioned. I just posted a bug when duplicating a CC and renaming in the media pool will retain the original copy name on the timeline.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=120491&p=661549#p661549

+1 For attention to this issue.

Another Compound Clip limitation (reported by Rick van den Berg, in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=121216#p665575):

Compound Clips do not pass through any transparency it may contain, in the main timeline it’s used in.

I really need compound clips. Please remove those limitations Davinci Resolve developers!

As reported by David Cherniack, you also can’t render out Compound Clips via the Deliver page:

viewtopic.php?t=121482

(EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that TheBloke already reported this issue earlier in this thread)

Another issue with Compound clips, reported by Timo92: Compound Clips lose waveforms when saving project.

viewtopic.php?t=121678

The more I think about this Compound Clip issue, the more I’m starting to think that the actual feature request should be for Resolve to have a better way of managing timelines throughout the app, and not simply just to “fix” Compound Clips.

It should be clear by now that there is absolutely no advantage to using Compound Clips over simple Nested Timelines, other than the fact that Compound Clips do not pollute timeline dropdown selection lists.

This isn’t a particularly strong argument for the continued existence of Compound Clips as a separate entity, given the overwhelming amount of problems that are currently associated with them.

If there was a better way of managing “timelines” of all flavors, then there wouldn’t need to be a physical distinction between Compound Clips and Timelines. You could just create nested timelines, and not have to worry about it until the time comes when you need/want to have quick access to them via the dropdown menus.

The idea of giving Timelines a specific attribute checkbox makes the most sense (in addition to giving it a metadata column in the Media Pool). You could invoke “Clip Attributes” on a timeline, and there would be a checkbox for “Hide timeline in dropdown menus” (or something else less clunkily named than that) which would allow you to get the functional equivalent of Compound Clips, without having to maintain a needlessly confusing distinction between a “Compound Clip” and a simple nested timeline.

I think making this checkbox enabled by default would be a sensible one, given that I would wager that a large majority of people who are using Compound Clips are using them as the functional equivalent of a Nested Timeline that they want to act upon in the Master timeline as a single entity, just like a regular clip. In these cases you don't really need to have constant access to this nest via the Timelines dropdown.

This is another reason why I am a strong proponent of the unified “Nest Timeline” dialog idea, where the user can be given the choice—at the time of the creation of the nest—if they want the nest to be visible in timeline dropdown menus. This option would set the appropriate checkbox setting for that timeline, and would be reversible later via the Media Pool if the alternative behavior is desired.

I agree completely. The proliferation of timeline-like clips is a recipe for confusion and breeds the sort of inconsistencies and annoyances that we've documented in this thread. And if it's not dealt with it threatens to get worse over time as more features are added. Worst case scenario is that v17 or v18 brings yet more special 'Clip' types!

Get rid of Compound Clips. Get rid of Multicam Clips. Get rid of Fusion Clips. Instead, have only Timelines. Then on any given timeline, provide the following options:

> Populate dropdown list?

> Multicamera Timeline
> Fusion Timeline

Multicamera vs Fusion would be mutually exclusive. Selecting either option would cause that Timeline to be considered a MultiCam Timeline or a Fusion Timeline. These designations could be changed at any time, allowing conversion of a normal Timeline to a Fusion or MultiCam, and back.

Compound Clips would disappear as a separate entity. Any existing Compound Clips in a project would be converted to standard Timelines - perhaps with a message added to their Note field indicating "Converted from Compound Clip", just so that's clear. The "New Compound Clip" context menu option would now be called "Nest new Timeline", or something similar.

A MultiCamera Timeline would enable the Multicam Clip features - ie special Viewer mode with Angle Selection, automatic angle naming, etc. If this option was enabled on an existing Timeline, the number of video and audio tracks would be equalised.

A Fusion Timeline would be identical to a Fusion Clip today, altering the media-getting attribute of any Fusion composition placed on top of it such that that composition accesses each video layer via a different MediaIn.

Beyond those specific differences, every Timeline would be identical to every other Timeline in all respects, supporting all the features that Timelines support today. Given that the Timeline feature set is a superset of existing Fusion/Multicam Clip, there should be no problems migrating; all that would change from the user's point of view would be the naming, with Fusion and MultiCam Clips changing to Fusion/MultiCam Timelines. That and the fact that those Timelines would now support more features than they did before.

I feel strongly that this is an important change that needs to happen for Resolve's future - as it is now it's confusing to learn, misleading and frustrating to use, and surely harder to maintain and support for BMD than it would be if these clips were unified.

Another issue with compound clips:
When you "zoom in" a compound clip to edit them, and save the project under a new name, Davinci Resolve switches back to the main timeline. Super annoying. Please stop it from going back to the main timeline when saving within a compound clip.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=121408

Here's my vision of how I think timelines should be handled.

One, there's only one kind of timeline. One.

The only thing that could really be an option that would be enabled when you create a timeline, or even in the timeline properties would be a flag if the timeline is synced or not and how it is synced (timecode, waveform etc).

In the event it is a timecode synced timeline, the first clip dropped would set the timecode timeline base. Any other clips that are dropped on the timeline that contains the corresponding timecode would automatically snap to their position according to that internal timecode. This would also include any extra audio tracks with timecode embedded. Audio routing on a timecode synced timeline would need to be handled as most external audio tracks are a continuous recording. Pluraleyes seems to be able to handle cutting up a continuous recording and locking it to matching video clips so BM should be able to pull that off. There should also be support for nudging tracks in the event the sync is slightly off.

I think Multicam should be handled similarly as it is already but without the special Multicam clip step. Just drop the synced timeline into a new timeline and go.

I'm afraid Fusion is beyond me I haven't really been able to wrap my head around it and find myself going back to AE for those things. But Fusion comps probably would need their own thing it's just clunky and confusing when you jump over the Fusion trying to keep straight what is in the timeline and how it times out with the Fusion content.

Between cleaning up this timeline debacle and keyframe disaster BM has some pretty big problems to overcome.

Oh man, the disappearing waveform really bothers me. It really disturbs my workflow, because every time I save I have to wait up to a minute until the waveforms of my compound clips come back.

Another problem with compound clips:
Let's say I have Dynamic Project Switching enabled. Now I have project A with a compound clip being "opened", and I switch to project B, and then back to project A. Then it opens the main timeline of project A, instead of the compound clip that was opened before.

In short, Davinci Resolve does not remember whether a compound clip is opened when switching between different projects. Please make it remember that a compound clip is opened and go back into the compound clip instead of the main timeline.

Another example: Burn-in doesn't work with Multicam Clips (not sure about other nested types): viewtopic.php?f=21&t=108381

Compound clips take the resolution of the Timeline they were created from.

So if you edit in a 12k clip into a 1920x1080 timeline and create a Compound clip from it. Its 1920x1080. Zoom in. it gets pixelated. Take the compound clip into fusion, its 1920x1080

That and the lack of Alpha are two biggies. aside from the output and T/C issues.


Compound Clips are Gotcha Clips.

Another problem with compound clips:
The "show zoomed audio waveform" and "show full clip audio waveform" options in the source viewer don't work on them.

Another problem with Compound clips that I just discovered:
With a black title and a white background, sometimes the title "flickers" before a dissolve in and after a dissolve out. This only happens with a compound clip, and when you play the compound clip in the main timeline. It doesn't happen when I play the compound clip from within the compound clip.

Hmm. All these problems simply go away if you go back to Premiere Pro. PP may not be as "cool" looking, but its also not convoluted at all. The simplest things happen simply.

Or if you have a real reason to stay with Resolve as opposed to Premiere, please let me know. And I don't wanna hear that it's because of "color". Yes, color is amazing. AND you can play 8K files in Resolve much better...but the functionality in Resolve is still a mess.

Hmm. All these problems simply go away if you go back to Premiere Pro. PP may not be as "cool" looking, but its also not convoluted at all. The simplest things happen simply.

Or if you have a real reason to stay with Resolve as opposed to Premiere, please let me know. And I don't wanna hear that it's because of "color". Yes, color is amazing. AND you can play 8K files in Resolve much better...but the functionality in Resolve is still a mess.

But we got the Cut Page!

SMH

Here’s a new one...Noise Reduction doesn’t work on Compound Clips:

viewtopic.php?t=99384

How about getting rid of compound clips entirely and just have nested clips..just like Premiere Pro. Thats sounds so much simpler.
Go back and play in Premiere again after using Resolve for a while. Its like taking weights off your legs and suddenly running seems like flying. Hmm?

How about getting rid of compound clips entirely and just have nested clips..just like Premiere Pro. Thats sounds so much simpler.

What is the difference between nested clips and compound clips?

Go back and play in Premiere again after using Resolve for a while. Its like taking weights off your legs and suddenly running seems like flying. Hmm?

I would agree with this if it wouldn't be for the significant performance difference between Davinci Resolve and Premiere Pro. I'm working on a high end gaming laptop, and the performance of Davinci Resolve is in a different world compared to Premiere Pro.
I have tried everything, but I just can't get the playhead to move smoothly when scrubbing the timeline in Premiere Pro. In Davinci Resolve, moving the playhead is buttery smooth. In PP, it's laggy as hell.
And as I said, I have a state of the art, high end gaming laptop. So it shouldn't lag in Premiere Pro. But it does.

If it weren't for the performance difference, I would use Premiere Pro, because Davinci Resolve is just too buggy at the moment. But I prefer buggyness over low performance and laggyness.

Go back and play in Premiere again after using Resolve for a while. Its like taking weights off your legs and suddenly running seems like flying. Hmm?

I would agree with this if it wouldn't be for the significant performance difference between Davinci Resolve and Premiere Pro. I'm working on a high end gaming laptop, and the performance of Davinci Resolve is in a different world compared to Premiere Pro.
I have tried everything, but I just can't get the playhead to move smoothly when scrubbing the timeline in Premiere Pro. In Davinci Resolve, moving the playhead is buttery smooth. In PP, it's laggy as hell.
And as I said, I have a state of the art, high end gaming laptop. So it shouldn't lag in Premiere Pro. But it does.

If it weren't for the performance difference, I would use Premiere Pro, because Davinci Resolve is just too buggy at the moment. But I prefer buggyness over low performance and laggyness.

Please stay on topic. This has NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread.

ok.

Hmm. All these problems simply go away if you go back to Premiere Pro. PP may not be as "cool" looking, but its also not convoluted at all. The simplest things happen simply.

Or if you have a real reason to stay with Resolve as opposed to Premiere, please let me know. And I don't wanna hear that it's because of "color". Yes, color is amazing. AND you can play 8K files in Resolve much better...but the functionality in Resolve is still a mess.

All these problems go away... and all Premiere's problems come back lol

Another problem with compound clips:
Every time you "zoom in" to a compound clip and go out again, the audio waveforms are gone!
And they take minutes to come back!

Another problem with compound clips:
When you go into a compound clip and apply an audio plugin, like those from the ERA bundle, they will only stay on the audio track as long as you are inside of the compound clip. As soon as you leave the compound clip, all audio effects that you applied within the compound clip disappear.

Just wanted to keep a list of all the container types in Resolve along with their behaviors for the purposes of discussions.

Timeline

• Does have timeline settings.
• Does show up in the timeline's list.
• Can't be created in a timeline.
• Can have grades applied to the clips inside of them
• Can have timeline level grades.
• Can have clip grades applied to them in a parent timeline.
• Can contain video tracks.
• Can contain audio tracks.
  
  • Contained audio tracks can be heard in parent timelines.
• Can contain adjustment clips.
  
  • Contained adjustment clips do apply to parent timeline clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips do get applied to other contained clips when view in a parent timeline.
• Can contain compositions.
  
  • Contained compositions can be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can contain Fusion Clips.
  
  • Contained Fusion Clipscan be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can be Decomposed in Place.
• Appears flattened to its Fusion composition.

Compound Clip

• Does not have timeline settings
• Does not show up in the timeline's list.
• Can be created in a timeline.
• Can have grades applied to the clips inside of them
• Can't have timeline level grades.
• Can have clip grades applied to them in a parent timeline.
• Can contain video tracks.
• Can contain audio tracks.
  
  • Contained audio tracks can be heard in parent timelines.
• Can contain adjustment clips.
  • Can't be created with adjustment clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips do apply to parent timeline clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips do get applied to other contained clips when view in a parent timeline.
• Can contain compositions.
  
  • Can be created with compositions.
    
  • Contained compositions can be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can contain Fusion Clips.
  
  • Can be created with Fusion Clips.
    
  • Contained Fusion Clips can be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can be Decomposed in Place.
• Appears flattened to its Fusion composition.

Multicam Clip

• Does not have timeline settings
• Does not show up in the timeline's list.
• Can't be created in a timeline.
• Can have grades applied to the clips inside of them
• Can't have timeline level grades.
• Can have clip grades applied to them in a parent timeline.
• Can contain video tracks.
• Can contain audio tracks.
  
  • One of the contained audio tracks can be heard in parent timelines.
• Can contain adjustment clips.
  
  • Can be created with adjustment clips but it breaks the multicam clip
    
  • Contained adjustment clips do apply to parent timeline clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips don't get applied to other contained clips when view in a parent timeline.
• Can contain compositions.
  • Can be created with compositions but it breaks the multicam clip
    
  • Contained compositions can be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can contain Fusion Clips.
  • Can be created with Fusion clips but it breaks the multicam clip
    
  • Contained Fusion clips can't be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can't be Decomposed in Place.
• Appears flattened to its Fusion composition.

Fusion Clip

• Does not have timeline settings
• Does not show up in the timeline's list.
• Can be created in a timeline.
• Can have grades applied to the clips inside of them
• Can't have timeline level grades.
• Can have clip grades applied to them in a parent timeline.
• Can contain video tracks.
• Can contain audio tracks.
  
  • Contained audio tracks can't be heard in parent timelines.
• Can contain adjustment clips.
  
  • Can't be created with adjustment clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips don't apply to parent timeline clips.
    
  • Contained adjustment clips do get applied to other contained clips when view in a parent timeline.
• Can contain compositions.
  • Can't be created with compositions.
    
  • Contained compositions can't be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can contain Fusion Clips.
  • Can be created with Fusion clips.
    
  • Contained Fusion clips can't be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can't be Decomposed in Place.
• Appears de-composed to its Fusion composition.
  • Contained compositions can't be viewed by it's Fusion composition.
    
  • Contained Fusion clips can't be viewed by it's Fusion composition.

VFX Connect Clip

• Does not have timeline settings
• Does not show up in the timeline's list.
• Can be created in a timeline.
• Can have grades applied to the clips inside of them
• Can't have timeline level grades.
• Can have clip grades applied to them in a parent timeline.
• Can contain video tracks.
• Can't contain audio tracks.
• Can't contain adjustment clips.
• Can't contain compositions.
• Can contain Fusion Clips.
  
  • Can be created with Fusion clips.
    
  • Contained Fusion clips can't be viewed from parent timelines.
• Can't be Decomposed in Place.
• Appears flattened to its Fusion composition.

In Summary

Some obvious things here. Anything named "Clip" will not have Timeline settings or timeline grades because it isn't a timeline. Makes sense all the sense in the world. However you'd think if it were a clip then it would think something like a Compound Clip or Multicam Clip would just act like a clip container with all it's clips more or less acting as if they were decomposed to the parent timeline. Instead it kind of acts like a Pre-comp in After Effects with all the clips adopting the resolution of the timeline the container was created in or exists in. Both Compound and MultiCam can have transforms and grades applied to them and can both be de-composed or "flattened" but they lose the former when the latter happens. In theory, BMD could allow those transforms and effects to be push to an Adjustment Layer that gets created when either is de-composed or flattened. Alternatively, they could be appended to the grades of the individual flattened clips on the MultiCam Clip instead.

Fusion Clips are the Multicam Clips compositing equivalent. I personally have never liked them, really want them gone, and think they are the least needed container type in Resolve and this post made me dislike them more. They can technically contain pretty much every clip type can't actually make use of and won't acknowledge them in their parent timelines or compositions. There main intended benefit is that you can color grade and edit clips before they're exposed as tracks to the Fusion composition but you can't see the edit points in Fusion, you can only change their internal timeline when viewing them as timelines, and you can only access it's composition if you back out of that timeline. There's pretty much no way to use them to their fullest "potential" without constantly switching between pages, going into the Fusion Clip, backing out of it then going backing in, etc. It's a giant time sink that outwardly may appear to be brimming with potential but ultimately overcomplicates every process it was meant to solve. I hate them lol

I don't think anybody would expect that VFX Connect Clips would actually work like timelines. I'm honestly not even sure why they allow you to view it as one but I put it here for just for completeness. One thing that surprised me is that it was at least very consistent in that it will not allow you to place any kind of media in that it can't actually use. It's not without it's strange behaviors though. For example, you can create VFX Connect clip out of any of the other containers and it will display each of them correctly because renders them out to flattened media before sending them to Fusion stand-alone. That makes sense but it still allows you to modify those enclosed containers even though the changes won't propagate anything. That could just be solved by not allowing people to view it's internal timeline. Alternately, it could probably be set up like Composition that can be view in Fusion but lacks the ability to update in the timeline without rendering. That would still allow you to work with it within Resolve, as part of Fusion standalone or with other VFX software.

While all these containers are probably all identical structurally behind the scenes, they do work very differently. If we had the ability to create Timeline in the same way we can create Compound Clip then I think this whole topic probably would have played out differently. Instead of talking about the weaknesses of Compound Clips we'd probably be asking for more differentiation between how they work compared to timelines.

I'm for getting rid of Fusion Clips completely, taking away the nested timeline structure of VFX Connect clips completely, and adding the ability to make timelines within another timeline. I'm against making them all act more like timelines.

Lastly, I'm indifferent about merging the creation process of Timelines and Compound Clips. One one hand, both already prompt you with questions about settings before they're actually created so combining those prompts won't make either process longer and it would clean up some of the context menu. The same would be cool for merging New VFX Connect clip and New Fusion composition (Not Fusion Clip). However, I don't agree that it would better convey that there are differences between Timelines and Compound Clips. I think as long as the user sees both options next to each other, they'll know they're different. I think placing an option that ultimate decides whether or not it's a Compound Clip or a Timeline with an already populated prompt will probably just obscure the fact that there's an option to begin with. I don't think we can't determine an implementation detail like that until we decide on some sort of consensus on how the two should differ. As was previously mentioned, Compound Clips don't populate the timelines dropdown but they do populate the Media Pool. With the ability to create Timelines from clips in a timeline, would anybody still have a use for Compound Clips where they would get any benefit from it populating the Media Pool?

And another arbitrary limitation: there's no Decompose In Place option for Fusion Clips.

I imagine that limitation exists because Fusion clips are just live VFX Connect clips in that it's a composition first and timeline second. It's the only container type mentioned above that maintains an associate Fusion composition within the Media Pool and when you Reset a Fusion clips composition, it can't revert to a blank comp like the other ones do.

Here’s a new one...Noise Reduction doesn’t work on Compound Clips:

viewtopic.php?t=99384

It does on my end.

Has someone already tested if the compound clip/Nested Timeline behaviour has improved in DR 17?

Has someone already tested if the compound clip/Nested Timeline behaviour has improved in DR 17?

I was curious about this too. Unfortunately I can't check because my DR 17 install was botched. I tried uninstalling it but it's only half un-install so the install won't let me re-install it again. I'm essentially just stuck at a point that I can't do anything.

That sucks. I didn't even know that that could happen. I hope you find a way to fix it.

Again, if someone has information about these issues in DR17, it would be greatly apprechiated if you could write about it. Because the Compound Clip/Nested Timeline Issues that are listed in this thread are one of the most annoying things in DR16.

Got DR17 working. I didn't notice any issues with waveforms disappearing when I zoom into compound clips but they did go away after applying an audio effect to one of the contained clips. It comes back eventually though. I think that's because the waveforms for a compound clip are summed and post-effect so it has to create them.

I fight with compound clips vs. timelines every single day of my working life. I, personally, cannot find any real quantifiable value that would be "worth it" or would serve to persuade me to keep compound clips as a thing in resolve going forward whatsoever, if I were the all-mighty king of making such decisions. My experience has been that compound clips offer me absolutely nothing as compared to timelines, and are defined simply by the list of things they can't do as compared to timelines. The timelines drop down switcher is such an incredible mess that I simply do not use it, so cluttering this menu is a non-issue for me (highly recommend checking out Metafide's Timeline Switcher for anyone who feels the same about the timeline switcher drop down menu)

This is one of those superbly informative discussions. I wish I had stumbled onto it before I did what I did, but as I bludgeoned my way through making a single VFX clip using only Resolve 17 (no Fusion) that would have been better served using Fusion (or Blender, or After Effects) and knowing that I went ahead anyway since my Blender skills were always lacking and are rusty from disuse and I no longer have AE ... well .. I did a bunch of stuff using Compound Clips only to find that it's incredibly inefficient, but, by the time I admitted this to myself I was neck-deep in the darn things, and too much time invested and "almost done" was leering at me around the corner.

But after the project was done (given up and, call it "good enough") and I watched a voiceover BTS I made for some friends, I realized that I had completely overlooked nested timelines. It was after a Google search for learning about nested timelines vs compound clips that I ended up here.

My main issue was that I was thinking of compound clips like layers in a pre-comp in AE. Or even without pre-comp. Make some changes to a layer, or an adjustment layer, and the effects thereof can be immediately seen, then adjusted for, as the composite matures. And re-adjusted later, without decomposing (which I dealt with by copying the clip on the timeline with its attributes, setting it aside, decomposing the copied CC, making my adjustments, then Pasting Attributes back on top of the remade CC).

Goofy, I know. Got the job done, but it's a classic case of using the wrong tool for the job. I'm about to fire up the system to mess with nested timelines and see how that might be better, as I think it will be FAR better .. or ??

It may be that I have either missed the secret bit in the manual, or simply misunderstanding, therefore seeking clarification:

The most glaringly obvious difference that I am seeing between using a compound clip vs a nested timeline is that while one can go back to the element or parameter in the nested timeline and change that, and it will update in the main timeline (without losing adjustments made to that in the main timeline); the big downside is that one cannot see how those changes affect the composite in real time unlike with a compound clip, one can have a stack of clips on tracks with various elements/parameters to create an object or another element, adjusted to the specifications based on WYSIWYG, then select all those, and create a compound clip.

Of course the downside of that is that the compound clip has to be decomposed, sometimes several levels of them, to make changes of their contents, and they are limited to the resolution of the timeline which I ran into as a problem as I was manually keyframing sizing to compensate for things I could not track.

So yeah, it would be really cool to have Compound Clips' contents be accessible without decomposing (so "opening" perhaps, kind of like twirling down a layer in AE), and have the resolution of the CC be independent of timeline/project resolution.

Unless there is a way to put the other timelines on my second monitor .. now there's a thought .. (EDIT: Nope ... ? Why not?)