Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

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jallen0

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Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jun 14, 2021 7:30 pm

I cannot believe that I have to ask for this as a feature when it should be working, especially for the price I paid for the UltraStudio 4K mini.

Can we get the inputs and outputs for the UltraStudio 4K mini to work in Fairlight.

I really am confused as to why this doesn't work already.
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jallen0

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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 4:25 pm

I just received official confirmation from Blackmagic that the UltraStudio 4K mini is NOT compatible with Fairlight. As I replied back to them, I am absolutely floored that an interface with audio in and audio out made by Blackmagic would not be supported by any software within the Davinci Resolve environment. Especially one that is in the $1,000 price range and one of their latest designs.

I am getting extremely disillusioned with issues like this cropping up with Blackmagic products.
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 7:37 am

jallen0 wrote:I just received official confirmation from Blackmagic that the UltraStudio 4K mini is NOT compatible with Fairlight.


This is misleading of BMD. The US Mini 4K or any Decklink/US device for that matter cannot function as an audio only input within DVR, even the XLR mic input will not work. This has always been the case since unlike say Aja or Avid's own, now legacy, video i/o devices it is impossible to clock audio independently of video input. The XLR mic input on the US devices is as a result of design collaboration with Avid, for their similar branded versions, manufactured by BMD. The mic input, audio only, on my US Mini 4K functions within Avid Media composer, as long as I loop an sdi cable back into itself (1/4" audio inputs don't work at all). The similar DNxID Avid branded unit does not require this and doesn't have sdi in any case. The windows audio device and the 16bit Asio drivers from BMD only function for playback.

All BMD devices should function fine for playback with Fairlight, mine does. But it does mean that for recording anything within Fairlight you must use some other audio i/o device. The good is, unlike most nle only programmes you can use a BMD video device for picture whilst simultaneously using a 3rd party audio device a la Protools and Nuendo. The bad is unlike those programmes there is no Asio on Windows, so you are usually left with 2 in 2 out. As I mentioned on your other thread I use a SD Mixpre and a ESI Moco A/B monitor switch to move between both devices for audio, depending on usage. I rarely need more than 2 inputs whilst recording VO/ADR and if I did I could record to the SD card at the same time. I use the internal 1KHz tone of the Mixpre for line up and the Mini 4K offers full monitoring via 1/4" analogue or hdmi/sdi breakout if surround is needed. Asio would make it perfect but it works very well for me and has avoided the need to purchase Nuendo.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 1:37 pm

Here's my issue Steve. Blackmagic states on the UltraStudio page, right below the US 4K mini section regarding Audio Post

"UltraStudio is perfect for audio post production when working on soundtracks for television commercials, episodic television production and feature films. UltraStudio includes multiple channels of analog audio, AES/EBU digital audio and 8 or 16 channels of embedded SDI audio depending on the model. All UltraStudio drivers work with the world's best audio post production solutions such as ProTools, Steinberg Nuendo and Cubase."

Bolding is my addition.

If what you say is true then Blackmagic literally has zero audio interfaces that can work with Fairlight. Except for the outdated Fairlight audio interface. That is out of stock everywhere. And when you straight out ask Blackmagic via a support ticket when is the recommended audio interface device to use...well so far that has not been answered for me yet.
Last edited by jallen0 on Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt White

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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 1:50 pm

Which is why I wrote this: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=142457

And this: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=125332

We just need to record voiceovers. It is absurd that we have to use a separate DAW for that.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 2:09 pm

I was literally going to buy the new Fairlight Desktop Console this week and now that I cannot find an audio interface that works I have spent the week researching a Pro Tools, Logic Pro X set-up instead.

I continued to be confused as to why Blackmagic, which basically creates hardware and software to keep people within their ecosystem, drive people who want to be within that ecosystem, away.
Last edited by jallen0 on Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 2:55 pm

I hear you both Matt and Justin! It's just that the BMD hardware was ever thus, before even Fairlight was incorporated - It cannot clock video and audio separately. The most fundamental requirement in offline documentary editing, I do, is the ability to record guide VO. There is a BMD device sitting on my desk with an XLR mic input that does not function with DVR. Yet Avid can make the almost identical hardware work in that way. The blurb you quote Justin is true but only for playback. There should be absolutely a way to record VO with the Ultrastudio devices that have a mic input, at the very least, or it needs to be removed. I realise I am fortunate in using Avid and it is one of the many reasons I would never contemplate editing with DVR.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 5:50 pm

Steve,

Are you getting any latency or frame delay using the ESI Moco A/B Monitor Switch and viewing the footage within Fairlight? Also, is this the one you are talking about? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/mode/edu
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 6:59 am

Yes that's the one Justin. No latency at all, it's just a passive switch with a volume Knob, any latency would be down to the audio device and with the Mixpre there is none also. It's useful too because of it's mute button for recording VO.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 1:22 pm

Thanks Steve, it's on the way now. The reason I asked about latency is that when I used the Mix-Pre 6II I have with headphones, and used the US 4K Mini video out to my reference monitor, I did see some latency. I need to work on this a bit longer as it was a brief test however.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 2:30 pm

As I say I can't see/hear any latency Justin, but it's a bit complicated routing to use the Mixpre as an audio device. I can't remember all but the usb setting has to be 'normal', not stereo out, with it set to advanced mode and inputs routed to 'usb 1' and 'usb 2' if you want it to function normally as an audio interface. You have to press the screen 3 times too to get usb computer audio levels showing. Make sure your windows audio settings are 24bit 48KHz for playback and recording too and install the latest Asio driver from SD (even though you can't use Asio). It was a bit of back and forth with SD support to get it all good. Finally you will need a 3.5mm stereo to rca for the Moco (a good quality short one), so your Mixpre is on the B switch.

Any latency could be the monitor rather than the Mixpre. My reference monitor has no latency but the client monitor (US Mini 4K hdmi/sdi>Ref monitor hdmi>Client monitor) does.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 2:54 pm

I am on OS X so I don't have those ASIO issues. The MicPre showed right up as soon as I plugged it in. I will double check my MixPre USB settings as you suggested however. Thanks
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 5:54 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:As I say I can't see/hear any latency Justin, but it's a bit complicated routing to use the Mixpre as an audio device. I can't remember all but the usb setting has to be 'normal', not stereo out, with it set to advanced mode and inputs routed to 'usb 1' and 'usb 2' if you want it to function normally as an audio interface. You have to press the screen 3 times too to get usb computer audio levels showing. Make sure your windows audio settings are 24bit 48KHz for playback and recording too and install the latest Asio driver from SD (even though you can't use Asio). It was a bit of back and forth with SD support to get it all good. Finally you will need a 3.5mm stereo to rca for the Moco (a good quality short one), so your Mixpre is on the B switch.

Any latency could be the monitor rather than the Mixpre. My reference monitor has no latency but the client monitor (US Mini 4K hdmi/sdi>Ref monitor hdmi>Client monitor) does.


Steve, Just wanted to update you. I dug into the Sound Designs manual and, based on what they stated on page 29, have USB 5 as the left channel and USB 6 as the right channel. I also did a quick test on recording mic in lines 1-4 with no issues. I also have zero latency from the audio side.

I am experiencing video latency on some projects, but not others. The US 4K Mini shows a buffer reading of 5 fr most times, however sometimes it matches the audio spot on and sometimes it doesn't. However I am closer today than I was yesterday so that's an improvement. Thanks for your help.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 5:59 pm

Good stuff Justin. Yes usb 5/6 will work just as well, so too 3/4. It's just that you're limited to 2 in 2 out, at least on windows, so all 4 inputs and 5/6 aux, if you use them will need to be routed to the same pair you select for computer audio in. Does core Audio on Mac offer you the full 8 inputs though?
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 6:06 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:Good stuff Justin. Yes usb 5/6 will work just as well, so too 3/4. It's just that you're limited to 2 in 2 out, at least on windows, so all 4 inputs and 5/6 aux, if you use them will need to routed to the same pair you select for computer audio in.


Yes you're right. My stress level this last week is because I am trying to go through the training for Fairlight and I couldn't even scrub audio using the US 4K Mini. Now I can have a few weeks of training before I have to spend $8,000 plus on an audio system I can use for production.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 6:32 pm

Rather than stress it Justin, I would think carefully about what your needs are. If I was going to do serious audio post and it had to be Fairlight, then I would definitely be buying the Fairlight Desktop Audio Editor, Fairlight Audio Accelerator and the Fairlight PCIe Audio Interface, which is all around your 8K dollars, since it offers the greatest unique power with Fairlight. But if I wasn't wedded to Fairlight I would be going with Nuendo and much more flexible hardware. There's nothing wrong with the Fairlight hardware except there isn't a mobile thunderbolt interface solution yet (Sonnet can be used though). I have a background in location recording and mixing but I am a picture guy now so my setup Mixpre/Avid Artist Mix/Ultrastudio 4K Mini works well for me and covers all major TV/VO and simple mixing requirements. I'm also an old Pro Tools user but I just don't think it is value for money any longer compared to Fairlight or even Nuendo. But I would speak to Reynaud Venter here on these forums because he is the guru of Fairlight and always gives spot on advise.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 6:40 pm

I am updating this thread because another issue occurred within Fairlight using the US 4K Mini. Initially having the audio output connected manifested issues with the JKL keys, the jog wheel on the Editor Keyboard, and other issues. So I disconnected the audio output and those issues were resolved.

I used another audio interface device and just used the video output of the US 4K mini so that I could edit sound to picture on my reference monitor.

Turns out that keeping US 4K Mini plugged in and using the video output of the US 4K Mini created another set of problems. The audio timeline in Fairlight now developed an "fast then slow, then fast again" motion along the timeline and while the audio played fine the playhead did not match up against the audio waveforms. Thus making it impossible to edit on the points. Reynaud helped me out in solving this issue.

So the bottom line is the US 4K Mini must be unplugged in order to use Fairlight. This results in no ability to output the picture to the reference monitor as well as having to use another audio interface.

While it does work as advertised in the edit page it does not work in any way once you go to the Fairlight page. As this was one of the main reasons I purchased this device, I once again find myself disillusioned with Blackmagic. I have reached out to Blackmagic support and instead of being able to engage in a dialog about when this device will be working, or they are working on it now...or anything hopeful all I received was an email from that stating " At this time this is working as expected in that it is not compatible for Fairlight configuration. Sorry for the inconvenience, I have once again submitted this to our dev team in hopes that they will make this an option."

I guess I am looking for a bit more than "once again submitted" and would like a "we are actively working on it". How can I help make this happen?
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 24, 2021 8:41 am

Thanks for your feedback.
I do have JKL working on my Mac using the US4K mini analog audio out so i'm curious what issue you find there.

Audio jog and scrub etc works on Fairlight page with the Fairlight Desktop Console and the Fairlight Audio Editor. Support for the SE and DREK in jog is scheduled for an upcoming release.

We had some updates to the preferences settings in v17 and have the next phase in dev now. This will inc better separation of audio and video I/O selection which we think will assist with a lot of the I/O issues.

In the meantime, the Fairlight Audio Accelerator and Fairlight Audio Interface are still newly manufactured and shipping items. Multiple delivered last month with new 3 bay consoles.

For US4K Mini audio input, traditionally Resolve has only ingested audio via the embedded SDI input and while we have added the Fairlight interface, and support for system audio I/O, the US4K Mini mic input is still on the dev short list and becomes viable once the preferences update are made as mentioned above.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 24, 2021 11:49 am

Thanks Peter for your thoughts. I'll do my best to answer your thoughts.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I do have JKL working on my Mac using the US4K mini analog audio out so i'm curious what issue you find there.


On my system (see specs below), using the US 4K Mini as system input and output (analog audio output, HDMI output, no input), and using either the editor keyboard or an Apple bluetooth extended keyboard, the L key will initiate playback but the J and K key will not work. I am using the standard keyboard layout with the only modification to it being the tab key changed to create node names in the color page. Additionally at this stage there is also no audio scrubbing, either using the editor board jog wheel, or just manually scrubbing back and forth.

If I change the I/O on system audio to my MixPre 6II then this issue is resolved. At the stage I am using the MIxPre for audio and the US 4K Mini for video output.

However once in this configuration another issue appeared. While the JKL and audio scrubbing was solved, during playback the audio waveform sped up and slowed down visually during playback. The playhead would not match up with the actual audio playing out. Honestly there was no way to edit points because the playhead was never where it was supposed to me. Reynaud was a huge help in helping me troubleshoot this and the answer to fixing this issue was to totally unplug the US 4K Mini. As soon as I did that the waveform stopped it's behavior and the playhead stayed spot on the waveform, like it was supposed to.

Of course I now have no output to a monitor and cannot even have the US 4K mini plugged into the system when I go to the Fairlight page.

One last system thought. My system is partitioned into two operating systems. The main one listed below is a clean install and basically only has Resolve on it, and a few plug-ins. No other non-system software. The other partition has the latest version of Catalina, with an up-to-date Resolve install as well as Adobe products and everything else I use. I get these exact same issues with both sets of operating systems.

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Audio jog and scrub etc works on Fairlight page with the Fairlight Desktop Console and the Fairlight Audio Editor. Support for the SE and DREK in jog is scheduled for an upcoming release.

We had some updates to the preferences settings in v17 and have the next phase in dev now. This will inc better separation of audio and video I/O selection which we think will assist with a lot of the I/O issues.


I look forward to testing out any changes when this is released. I do not know what "Support for the SE and DREK in jog" means however.


Peter Chamberlain wrote:In the meantime, the Fairlight Audio Accelerator and Fairlight Audio Interface are still newly manufactured and shipping items. Multiple delivered last month with new 3 bay consoles.


I have done a lot of thinking about what I mean when I say "modern" interface. I think it comes down to a few things, one of them being a more rack mounted solution so I am not tied to PCI cards. I admit that I do not know a lot about the Fairlight interfaces however my impression is that because Blackmagic has come out with a new USB controller, they are also designing a new audio interface...something much like the new Pro Tools Carbon. Because I am working on building a system that will last 3-5 years the concern I have is buying an interface that will get left behind during that time. I have some more research and education for myself to do in this area however.

Peter Chamberlain wrote: For US4K Mini audio input, traditionally Resolve has only ingested audio via the embedded SDI input and while we have added the Fairlight interface, and support for system audio I/O, the US4K Mini mic input is still on the dev short list and becomes viable once the preferences update are made as mentioned above.


For me my ingestion has has only occurred via sound files that are timecode locked. I have never ingested anything via the US 4K Mini until I started the Fairlight training from Ripple Training. During this period I have been using Fairlight, I was only looking to have audio/video output through the US 4K Mini. I can also say that in the edit page none of these issues have occurred.

One last thing concerning the US 4K Mini. Over the last 24 hours I have been using the US 4K Mini in Pro Tools as my audio/video playback device. So far I have not experienced any of these issues in the latest version of Pro Tools. I say this because I think it supports the thought that the US 4K Mini is not defective. I'll also say that I am brand new to Pro Tools so I have not stressed the system at all. But playback of both audio and video is working fine.

Again Peter, thanks for commenting. I hope my thoughts were helpful and I am happy to test anything if it helps the developers.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jun 24, 2021 3:23 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:For US4K Mini audio input, traditionally Resolve has only ingested audio via the embedded SDI input and while we have added the Fairlight interface, and support for system audio I/O, the US4K Mini mic input is still on the dev short list and becomes viable once the preferences update are made as mentioned above.


That is great news Peter, thanks for letting us know!
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 2:58 am

For the speed up/slow down issue.. do u have a video track that the US4K can sync to?

I tested again my JKL operation... works for me still. on USA formatted keyboard, Resolve shortcut, maybe take a phone video and post.. after you add a video track if you dont have that to see if thats your issue
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 3:03 am

Peter, The video track that I was using synced up perfectly in the edit page, and the clips worked as well in the color page. It was only in the Fairlight page where this happened.

I am not sure I completely understand the question about having a video track that the US 4K can sync to. Unless you are asking if I was just trying to use audio alone. That I was not doing...everything I was doing was tied to a video track as well.

I take some videos tomorrow and get them to you.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 7:53 am

Justin are your DVR audio project settings definitely 48KHz/24bit and is the MixPre the same in Applications/Utilities/Audio MIDI Setup on your Mac? I've just checked here too, bear in mind I'm on Windows: If I have the MixPre setup in preferences, speaker setup then there is no audio from the Mini 4K on the Fairlight page - on the edit pages, yes. In order to hear the Mini 4K I have set it in speaker setup as my audio device. JKL works with either though but of course there is absolutely no scrub for both at the same time, in the Fairlight page. So are you changing the 'Speaker Setup' each time you test the 2 devices?
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 11:07 am

Steve,

I am changing that out each time. Good thoughts.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 11:47 am

Try disconnecting the MixPre too (just switch it off) when you are using the US 4K Mini alone for audio. You shouldn't have to but if the US is OK then audiowise, that will show it's not US per se that's at fault.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Jun 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Peter,

I have 3 video clips that show different aspects of the issue.

Video Clip 1:


Video Clip 2:


Video Clip 3:


I did not reset the MIxPre 6II but if I did it would show audio scrubbing working, assuming that the US 4K Mini is completely disconnected. However then I have no reference monitor output and of course every time I go back and forth to the edit or color page everything has to be reconnected. And to state again, the US 4K Mini has no issues working in the Edit or Color pages...or on Pro Tools.

Hope this helps and let me know if there is another clip you want to see.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 8:15 am

Justin, I meant remove the Mixpre when you are using the US for audio output - I know it works for you if you use it alone and then obviously then you have no monitor out. Please don't take this the wrong way but there appears to be a slight flaw in your process of elimination - i.e if it were my rig I would a) be trying just the US on it's own (you've already shown the Mixpre works on its own); b) remove the BMD keyboard and jog/shuttle from the picture entirely - use a standard mac keyboard with the US alone, just to test scrubbing with a mouse and JKL/waveforms, and finally c) Reconnect the MixPre + US, without the BMD keyboard, testing both outputs again. So then you will have shown/know that one or more combinations causes the issue, and eliminated each piece of hardware in turn, and you can continue to funnel down your trouble shooting from there.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 11:39 am

Steve, Maybe I put that in the other thread, however I have tried all of those combinations. As I said, when I just use the MixPre 6II as an in and out AND completely disconnect the US 4K Mini then I do not experience the issues. However that options is not viable for me because A) I do not have monitor output for my video reference and B) I am not going to connect and disconnect my US 4K Mini every single time I want to pop into the Fairlight page.

Regardless of the keyboard, the mouse, even the operating system, the US 4K Mini creates issues when using Fairlight in one form or another. The videos above show various changes based on the US 4K Mini as the I/O, just the I and just the O.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 1:09 pm

jallen0 wrote:As I said, when I just use the MixPre 6II as an in and out AND completely disconnect the US 4K Mini then I do not experience the issues. However that options is not viable for me because A) I do not have monitor output for my video reference and B) I am not going to connect and disconnect my US 4K Mini every single time I want to pop into the Fairlight page.


I understand that Justin, you have demonstrated already that the MixPre alone works but you lose video output, since the US needs to be disconnected, but from your videos I can see the Mixpre is still connected to your system and I am saying remove or switch off so it is not, whilst you test the US still connected to the system.

I cannot follow your videos, in part since I am not overly familiar with Mac but it appears what you keep calling the 'monitor' is unclear, it seems to be other than your US Mini 4K - is it the HDMI audio of a LCD monitor or is it your Mac sound card going to a speaker monitor? The audio for the US should be either from the 1/4" analogue jacks on the US or via HDMI/SDI to a picture monitor or AV amp/dembedder only. If you have another device acting as your system monitoring/audio out then yes you will either get no audio or stuttering audio, depending on what you have set in DVR preferences 'Speaker Set up'. But since your videos only show you changing Mac's audio and Midi preferences and not DVR's I can't tell what you have.

Similarly you say 'Regardless of the keyboard, the mouse, even the operating system', how do you know that? Have you tried the hardware on Windows? Have you actually disconnected the BMD keyboard and used another generic Mac one? Without confirming the steps, what you show is just what we already know - the US is not working as you'd expect. I have the same combination of hardware working fine on another OS in Fairlight, so it can be only a) defective hardware b) incorrect configuration and that leaves you back at square one. Without a proper process of elimination I fear you will continue to go in circles. I'm routing for you though :)
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 1:40 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:I understand that Justin, you have demonstrated already that the MixPre alone works but you lose video output, since the US needs to be disconnected, but from your videos I can see the Mixpre is still connected to your system and I am saying remove or switch off so it is not, whilst you test the US still connected to the system.


The MixPre is not connected to the system. If you look at test 1 video and notice the inputs and outputs, there is no Mix Pre option to select. Actually it was packed away by this point.

Steve Fishwick wrote:I cannot follow your videos, in part since I am not overly familiar with Mac but it appears what you keep calling the 'monitor' is unclear, it seems to be other than your US Mini 4K - is it the HDMI audio of a LCD monitor or is it your Mac sound card going to a speaker monitor? The audio for the US should be either from the 1/4" analogue jacks on the US or via HDMI/SDI to a picture monitor or AV amp/dembedder only. If you have another device acting as your system monitoring/audio out then yes you will either get no audio or stuttering audio, depending on what you have set in DVR preferences 'Speaker Set up'. But since your videos only show you changing Mac's audio and Midi preferences and not DVR's I can't tell what you have.


If you look at the beginning of Test 2 video you can see a part of the reference monitor that the HDMI out of the US 4K Mini goes to. When you hear me talk about the "monitor" that is, at times, referencing the audio out as I bypass the 1/4" audio out from the US 4K Mini. Normally my audio is routed to a set of Mackie HR824 speakers bot visible in the videos.

Steve Fishwick wrote:Similarly you say 'Regardless of the keyboard, the mouse, even the operating system', how do you know that? Have you tried the hardware on Windows? Have you actually disconnected the BMD keyboard and used another generic Mac one?


First off, I don't own a windows system, will not own one, and therefore see no need to test it on one. As I stated before I have used both the Blackmagic Editor keyboard as well as a wired and wireless Apple keyboard. None of those changes made any difference.


Steve Fishwick wrote:Without confirming the steps, what you show is just what we already know - the US is not working as you'd expect. I have the same combination of hardware working fine on another OS in Fairlight, so it can be only a) defective hardware b) incorrect configuration and that leaves you back at square one. Without a proper process of elimination I fear you will continue to go in circles. I'm routing for you though :)


On you point "A" I also tested for that, as best I can. 1) It works fine in the Edit and Color pages with zero issues. 2) When I use the US 4K Mini as a sound device within the Pro Tools system I have zero audio or video issues occurring. While neither of these occurrences "prove" the hardware is not defective, I think it leads strong support for that thought.

On your point "B" I do feel like I have gone through multiple processes to rule out items attached to my system that might be causing this issue. I feel that the routing and configuration is correct, the error is reproducible on both my main machine and my laptop, in both Big Sur and Catalina operating systems, and short of buying another US 4K Mini there is nothing else I can test.

Additionally Blackmagic stated that the US 4K Mini is not supported and Peter (see above) has stated that they are laying the foundation for officially supporting the device. As to why mine is not working and others are, I have no idea why that is. But thank you for your thoughts...it makes me double check things along the path.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Ok Justin, it's just that in all the threads, I've missed where you explicitly affirmed that you had removed a particular device from the equation, and you said 'regardless of OS' when that clearly can't be the case since you have no other to test.

Here's the thing and I've just double checked in Resolve: Preferences>Video and Audio I/O>Speaker Setup is where you choose the audio device. It will provide the output of whatever is available and this will apply everywhere, including Fairlight. It will only be your input device for Fairlight too if that is specifically set as your default in your OS system settings. For output only it makes absolutely no difference. Therefore all your messing with Apples Audio and MIDI settings should have no effect on the US as an output device for Fairlight. The US 4K Mini cannot work currently as an input device, so again setting it so in Apple OS is meaningless (In Windows I have it completely disabled as an audio input device). Although I know you realise that, it's just you were doing that in one of the videos.

So therefore either you have a hardware conflict somewhere or there is some installation/configuration issue. That could be a hardware conflict with the US from any other connected devices, e.g usb ones. Your specific issue seems to be stuttering waveforms, inconsistent JKL behaviour and audio scrubbing - what I would call audio underrun issues in Avid speak. Have you considered that maybe it's a Thunderbolt configuration/bandwidth issue too? What is the length of your thunderbolt cable? What type? Do you have other thunderbolt devices attached to the Mac at the same time? Are they on the same bus? Do you see where I'm going here? There are a myriad of variables that need a process of elimination when fault finding and in a general engineering sense they need careful documentation so as you are not duplicating errors and confounding the findings.

On the other hand the US could be simply defective. :)
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 5:25 pm

Steve Fishwick wrote:Ok Justin, it's just that in all the threads, I've missed where you explicitly affirmed that you had removed a particular device from the equation, and you said 'regardless of OS' when that clearly can't be the case since you have no other to test.


I believe that Big Sur OS and Catalina OS are different operating systems. Also I list my machine specs below my signature and finally I believe that I mentioned both Big Sur and Catalina by name. However you are also right, I did not test it on a windows system and I recognize that is also a different operating system. I also have not tested on a Linux system.

Steve Fishwick wrote: Here's the thing and I've just double checked in Resolve: Preferences>Video and Audio I/O>Speaker Setup is where you choose the audio device. It will provide the output of whatever is available and this will apply everywhere, including Fairlight. It will only be your input device for Fairlight too if that is specifically set as your default in your OS system settings. For output only it makes absolutely no difference. Therefore all your messing with Apples Audio and MIDI settings should have no effect on the US as an output device for Fairlight. The US 4K Mini cannot work currently as an input device, so again setting it so in Apple OS is meaningless (In Windows I have it completely disabled as an audio input device). Although I know you realise that, it's just you were doing that in one of the videos.


There was another place where Reynaud mentioned that to me. When Peter jumped in I tested what he asked me to. Again however, in Test 1 multiple items were affected, in Test 2 some of those issue went away and some new ones appeared, and in Test 3 everything worked fine. Additionally in the documentation it also shows that the sound preferences in the MacOS is something to set as well, so I am not entirely sure it's all about the Resolve preferences. However I have also changed that as well.

You are however not entirely accurate about the audio out selection. On page 91 of the latest Resolve manual it states under speaker setup: "For example, on macOS you’ll use the Audio Midi Setup utility to choose output hardware and select a speaker configuration to be made available on your system."

Steve Fishwick wrote: So therefore either you have a hardware conflict somewhere or there is some installation/configuration issue. That could be a hardware conflict with the US from any other connected devices, e.g usb ones. Your specific issue seems to be stuttering waveforms, inconsistent JKL behaviour and audio scrubbing - what I would call audio underrun issues in Avid speak. Have you considered that maybe it's a Thunderbolt configuration/bandwidth issue too? What is the length of your thunderbolt cable? What type? Do you have other thunderbolt devices attached to the Mac at the same time? Are they on the same bus? Do you see where I'm going here? There are a myriad of variables that need a process of elimination when fault finding and in a general engineering sense they need careful documentation so as you are not duplicating errors and confounding the findings.

On the other hand the US could be simply defective. :)


Regarding the thunderbolt cable I am using the $125.00 cable that is required for the Apple Pro Display XDR running out of the back of the machine. This cable is the Apple Thunderbolt 3 Pro cable which is 2-meters long and supports Thunderbolt 3 data transfer up to 40Gb/s, USB 3.1 Gen 2 data transfer up to 10Gb/s, DisplayPort video output (HBR3), and charging up to 100W. I am pretty sure it can support the throughput.

Other than the US 4K Mini, the Editor's keyboard and the LG 4K Monitors there is nothing else on this system. And before you ask, the drive is contained to only a fresh install of the latest Big Sur OS and Resolve, and a few plug-ins. Nothing else goes on that partition.

I appreciate you thoughts and I have had every one of them before reaching out. I have also tried numerous other things you and others have suggested, spent almost 45 minutes with tech support on the phone. With all of this I have a hard time believing that the issue is on my end. Not saying it's not, and I don't always get it right, but in this case I believe the issue is on Blackmagic's side. And I think Peter also alluded to that as well. I look forward to his next thoughts this week.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 5:46 pm

jallen0 wrote:"For example, on macOS you’ll use the Audio Midi Setup utility to choose output hardware and select a speaker configuration to be made available on your system."


That refers to system sound with the US it makes no difference, since the very hardware has been built for DVR. Maybe it is different on Mac and I'll hold my hand up but on Windows I know it makes no difference.

I'll leave you with Peter as he'll know far more than me but if your US is not outside warranty I would be replacing it too to make doubly sure. Best of luck.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 6:03 pm

Thanks for all of your thoughts.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostWed Jun 30, 2021 11:51 am

Peter,

I just wanted to reach out and make sure you had an opportunity to look at the videos posted earlier in this thread. - Thanks
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jul 01, 2021 5:01 am

Yes, in discussion with engineering here.
please leave then online.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Jul 01, 2021 1:49 pm

No problem.

With the new update to Resolve 17.2.2 the same issues exist as before. I confirmed the following after the editor keyboard also received it's update:

1) With the US 4K mini set to audio in and audio out under OS X Sound I saw no JL keys working; no jog wheel working; and no audio scrubbing sound.

2) With the US 4K mini set to audio out only (Display Audio set to in) under OS X Sound the JKL keys and the jog wheel worked; there was no audio scrubbing sound.

3) 2) With the US 4K mini plugged in but Display Audio set to in AND out under OS X Sound the JKL keys and the jog wheel worked and there was audio scrubbing sound. However there were audio playback issues. For example the timeline would be paused and the audio would continue playing. It was impossible to tell if the audio was catching up, or just continued playing.

Basically all of the same issues as before. Please let me know if there is anything else I can try.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostMon Jul 12, 2021 10:55 am

Peter, I was just wondering if the engineers were able to replicate this issue? I am happy to test anything if needed.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 11:30 am

Peter,

I did not see in the new update where there is compatibility with Blackmagic's UltraStudio 4K mini. Has this issue been fixed?

I would upgrade to find out myself however I am in the middle of a project right now.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 2:27 pm

Quick update. I upgraded on my other drive on my editing machine, which is running Catalina 10.15.7. I only had time to play with it for a few minutes however when using the UltraStudio 4K mini and the editors keyboard I was able to do the following:

Pros:
1) Use the JKL keys with no issues
2) Use the jog wheel on the editors keyboard with no issues and apparent fine scrubbing.

Concerns:
1) For some reason all of my audio tracks in the edit page and in Fairlight were showing no waveforms, just an audio volume line. Not sure quite how to change this.
2) When I quit the program Resolve errors out on me and did not quit cleanly.

Right now I cannot put this on my main Big Sur machine however the first few minutes have been encouraging. Thanks for working on this specific issue Blackmagic.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 9:06 pm

Hey Justin
I'd be interested to know if the ASIO I/O support in 17.3 has enabled the use of the Mic Input (on the Ultrastudio 4K Mini) for scratch recording in Resolve/Fairlight.
If you get a chance to test then do please let us know.
Cheers
Andy
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostSat Aug 21, 2021 1:38 pm

Andy Mees wrote:I'd be interested to know if the ASIO I/O support in 17.3 has enabled the use of the Mic Input (on the Ultrastudio 4K Mini) for scratch recording in Resolve/Fairlight.


That won't, I think, be possible Andy since the US 4K Mini only comes with a 16bit Asio output driver - there's no input. If what Peter alluded to earlier in this thread means that may change, I would imagine it would have to involve a new Desktop Video version with a new Asio driver for both i/o. Unless there's some other some setting in 17.3 that I'm missing.
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Oct 14, 2021 12:58 am

I know this thread has been cold for a while, but I wanted to chime in as I've been having the same problem with a timeline indicator that changes speed during playback in the Fairlight tab. To re-hash the problem, the indicator will surge forward then hang back, pulsing at a rate of about once per second. This is only present in the Fairlight tab, and makes audio editing very difficult. In/out markers can't be placed on the fly, you can't gauge your position based on waveforms, etc.

I have a Presonus Studio 192 audio interface and a BM Mini Monitor 4K. If I turn off external video monitoring in Resolve's preferences, the problem goes away. Fairlight is rock-solid. So, the problem seems to be linked to more than one model of BM hardware.

I don't know if this is still being investigated, but I'd love to see a solution. I'm using 17.3.2 and Desktop Video 12.1.

Anyone know something about this that I don't?
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Re: Fairlight and UltraStudio 4K mini

PostThu Oct 21, 2021 2:46 am

I want to chime in and say I have also been seeing this problem for a while on the Fairlight page: surging-slowing down playhead, audio output not in sync with the playhead/waveform, laggy playback when pressing the space bar to start or stop.

I finally decided to search for similar problems and found this thread. I have a Decklink Mini Monitor 4k and a Tascam 208i audio interface. After reading through this thread, if I go into Resolve Preferences--System--Video and Audio IO--Video I/O and choose none under Monitor Device, the problems go away. This means I can't monitor video output like I normally do, but it does fix the problem. I haven't noticed similar performance degradation in the Edit page, only when I go into the Fairlight page.

This is on a Mac (specs in signature) and Resolve 17.3.2 Build 8
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