32-bit float audio recording

Hi there!

I'm a voice actor, specializing in audiobooks. I've been doing all of my editing in Da Vinci Resolve, because it's the editor in which I work fastest. Until recently, I'd been recording chapters in 32-bit float on the SD card in my MixPre 3 II, importing them into Resolve, and editing them there. But I've found that back-and-forth workflow between production and editing to be kludgy and slow, sometimes adding hours or days to production, so I switched it up a bit. Now I'm using the MixPre as an audio interface & patching the inputs directly into Resolve, but I'm seeing the audio files it records are only 24-bit, which means my audio sometimes clips and is unrecoverable. The Audio MIDI interface on my Mac is set to 32-bit float, so I'm fairly certain Resolve is making the switch from 32-bit float signal to 24-bit integer file, which means I may have to switch editors, which I am loath to do, bc Resolve is great.

I've searched the manual and the forums, and I haven't seen anyone else post about recording bit rates in Resolve (there was a topic on editing them, a feature which came around sometime last year), so I thought I'd ask: can we get 32-bit float audio recording in Resolve / Fairlight?

Thanks so much!
-John

[Peter Chamberlain]

DeckLink and Ultrastudio are integer based.
I believe 32 bit, but not float.

Not really looking to spend several hundred dollars on new BlackMagic hardware, especially when switching software editors is free. Plus, the "float" is the important part of the request. 32 bit integer will still clip.

For now, I'm switching over to Adobe Audition. Hoping Fairlight/Resolve includes this feature soon, because if it doesn't, then I can't use it for work, which means I don't need it at all.

If you don't want your audio to clip don't record the signal so hot it goes over 0dbfs.
As you are only working with audio I'm surprised you are using Fairlight. It's intended for audio post. You would be better off with a standalone DAW such as Reaper, Audition, or Pro Tools, etc.

Recording to hardware is my preferred approach. I'm at a loss to imagine how doing so can add days to the work.

If you don't want your audio to clip don't record the signal so hot it goes over 0dbfs.

This is kind of wild advice, because 32-bit float audio is a technological innovation specifically designed to prevent clipping, and your approach is to tell me "just do things the way we did them before the innovation." Do you still edit video with film and scissors as well?

There are a number of situations where signal amplitude can get out of control. Voice acting carries a lot of dynamic range, and being able to recover clipped audio is a marvelous, magical, and irreplaceable tool.

As you are only working with audio I'm surprised you are using Fairlight. It's intended for audio post. You would be better off with a standalone DAW such as Reaper, Audition, or Pro Tools, etc.

From the top of BlackMagic's Fairlight product page (emphasis mine):

You get dozens of professional tools for recording, editing, mixing, dialog replacement, sound clean up and repair, equalization, dynamics processing, and mastering soundtracks in all standard formats from stereo and surround sound up to the latest immersive 3D audio formats! ...Fairlight is the only digital audio workstation software with a modern, super low latency audio engine capable of handling massive numbers of tracks, advanced bussing to simplify mixing, easy channel mapping options and multi format mastering in the same project.

If Fairlight isn't a DAW, the person writing copy for BlackMagic does not know that. Fairlight is marketed as a full-featured professional digital audio workstation. I am a working professional, who uses a professional format, and am requesting that my preferred editor support said format. If Fairlight wants to be what BlackMagic says it is, the lack of 32-bit float recording is an oversight. Just because Audition and Reaper can do the thing doesn't mean I suddenly prefer their interface, so I'm on BlackMagic's feature requests forum making a feature request. You don't want the feature, that's fine, but what you've done here is... why did you do that? Do you tell all the people who request features that they're wrong to want those features, or just the people who want features you don't need?

Recording to hardware is my preferred approach. I'm at a loss to imagine how doing so can add days to the work.

It would seem we have different clients, workflows, and deliverables.

Most people, when they don't understand a given scenario, lead with questions. If you'd like an explanation, I can give one, but if you're just here to cast doubt I'm not really interested in engaging. Yes, walking back and forth between my booth and computer hundreds of times over the course of a month added days to my last audiobook's production time.

---

Anyway. I just came to request the feature, and I checked back today to see if anyone from BlackMagic had responded further; did not expect two trolls to show up and tell me I'd requested the wrong feature. I've been moving back and forth between Reaper & Audition since first posting this thread, but the interface on those programs is simply not as good as Fairlight's. Really hope I can get back to work in my preferred editor soon, so I reiterate my request that 32-bit float recording be added to Resolve/Fairlight.

Cheers y'all, hope everyone at BlackMagic is doing well.

I don't do much with audio, so Fairlight is something I rarely touch. However, I have done some audio work and dealing with plosives can be a real pain. Because of this, I can see how something like recording in 32-bit float would be very helpful in managing your voice overs, especially if it does what you say it does.

Scott

Scot, 32 bit float will not cure plosives. That is down to mic placement and the use of a proper pop shield, and by that I mean not a foam one.

John, there is nothing wrong with 32 bit float, especially if you are recording in an unpredictable environment where sudden loud audio cannot be controlled. However, recording voice such as talking books and narration in a controlled environment is a different story. You have control over levels and dynamics.
For what it's worth, I have been recording voice and mixing for the last 51 years, 25 of them analogue and 26 digital. The only item used between mic and recorder has been a hardware compressor to gently control peaks.
My comment on the suitability of Fairlight is merely because it is aimed at audio for post rather than being intended as an all round DAW.

I don't do any audio recording directly in Fairlight. Only basic audio "stuff", but I totally understand the potential of this feature for the other people.

I learned about this 32 bits float for audio awhile back, it's pretty interesting to see how you can't "technically" clip any audio (correct me if I'm wrong). And you can recover for almost anything.

There was/is a similar discussion in the photography world..."You don't need raw, get it right in camera, just shoot jpeg, expose right, etc." - Why so much dynamic range right, or why having tools to deal with this much of data and be able to recover from mistakes.

So this request for this feature gets a 1+ from me.

I could see this use if you were live streaming and wanted to capture the audio feeds of multiple cameras live in 32-bit float without using something like a newer Mix-Pre system. It would be an interesting set-up.

Scot, 32 bit float will not cure plosives. That is down to mic placement and the use of a proper pop shield, and by that I mean not a foam one.

John, there is nothing wrong with 32 bit float, especially if you are recording in an unpredictable environment where sudden loud audio cannot be controlled. However, recording voice such as talking books and narration in a controlled environment is a different story. You have control over levels and dynamics.
For what it's worth, I have been recording voice and mixing for the last 51 years, 25 of them analogue and 26 digital. The only item used between mic and recorder has been a hardware compressor to gently control peaks.
My comment on the suitability of Fairlight is merely because it is aimed at audio for post rather than being intended as an all round DAW.

I freely admit that I might be completely misunderstanding what the OP is asking for, but one of the major problems with plosives are that they tend to clip recordings, making them harder to deal with in software. Even with a db cushion.

While it is true that good mic placement and pop shields can HELP (I keep my mic at a 45 degree angle and have a (cheap) pop shield), they can't STOP plosives from happening (and, yes, I realize that training yourself to avoid plosives can also help). And in audiobooks, many voice actors have to vary their volume, depending on the situation and lines in the book (at least those I've listened to). This would seem to make it more difficult to handle than, say, a music recording studio (I have no idea what part of the audio industry you have been in).

However, there are still MANY people who don't have the knowledge to totally avoid plosives (and the frequent clipping/distortion they can cause) and I include myself in that group. I do occasionally record events where the sound people only know how to make sure the mic(s) are working and that the volume is loud enough to be heard in the back of the room and don't provide a line out. As I'm sure you can imagine there are all kinds of problems this causes with recording in these situations.

It would seem to me, and I freely admit I don't have your 50+ years of experience, that IF 32-float audio can avoid clipping, such a feature would make it far easier to digitally control plosives among other things. As a "one man band" user, being able to work in such a domain would make my life just that much easier.

I agree, Fairlight has been a product limited to a certain market space, but since BMD brought it into Resolve, it has already gained many features. Much like Resolve was during it's early days.

Regardless, I don't see a reason that should stop BMD from implementing what appears to be a useful feature. After all, when it comes down to it, in the digital domain, it is just math and math that modern processors can handle with ease. It seems like other software can do so, like Adobe Audition, as the OP noted. And BMD seems to be positioning Fairlight as an Audition competitor.

Unless, of course, you can think of a good reason that implementing this feature would be harmful to Fairlight's functionality.

Anyway, my $.02...

Scott

Depending on your recording levels plosives may or may not clip. The only way to stop them is to stop the burst of air on things like Ps etc from reaching the mic. Distance and angle of the mic to the mouth is one way. The other is the use of a pop shield such as this to slow and break up the burst of air.

Pop Shield.JPG

Foam ones do not work as well because they are in contact with the mic.

+1 to the original request

I hope one day Fairlight's whole audio processing pipeline is 32 or even 64 bit float*, and that 32 bit float recording, import and export are supported.


* Reaper, my DAW of choice, does all internal audio processing in 64bit float and has done for 15+ years. Apparently there are precision benefits when calculating internal audio routing and summing between multiple tracks.

It would seem to me, and I freely admit I don't have your 50+ years of experience, that IF 32-float audio can avoid clipping,...

check this :

You can clip audio very badly, and recover from it.

Regardless, I don't see a reason that should stop BMD from implementing what appears to be a useful feature. After all, when it comes down to it, in the digital domain, it is just math and math that modern processors can handle with ease. It seems like other software can do so, like Adobe Audition, as the OP noted. And BMD seems to be positioning Fairlight as an Audition competitor.

Unless, of course, you can think of a good reason that implementing this feature would be harmful to Fairlight's functionality.

Same here.

I'm a noob about "audio", but it took me 5 mins of research to understand the usefulness of this 32 bits float for audio. It's gonna be implemented in Fairlight at some point. It's not a matter of "if" but "when".

Arguing against more "dynamic range" is pointless imo. Especially when we talk about Resolve/Fairlight

Dang! That 32-bit float is impressive!

Now I just wish that 32-bit float recorders weren't so expensive...

Scott

[Peter Chamberlain]

Resolve is 32bit float as a minimum internally, with a lot of 64 bit stages. In this case, its not reading the file at 32 float thats the issue, its input via DeckLink/UltraStudio which is 32bit integer.

I'll ping the appropriate internal PM.

Resolve is 32bit float as a minimum internally, with a lot of 64 bit stages. In this case, its not reading the file at 32 float thats the issue, its input via DeckLink/UltraStudio which is 32bit integer.

I'll ping the appropriate internal PM.

Thanks Peter! And that's good to know re 32/64 float internal use.

The reason I thought maybe it wasn't already doing that is I'd noticed clipping in nesting scenarios - like if I nest one Timeline in another, and in the first I raise the gain such that some peaks are clipped, then in the second timeline I lower it again, those peaks are not restored. However now I think about it that's likely a separate issue, related to how each timeline is its own bus. It'd be very nice if such scenarios worked at 32bit float too, but that's a different feature request.

Bump on this. I recently got a RØDE NT1 5th Generation that allows direct 32-bit float digital input into Mac/Windows. I've had to do some ADR for a project recently, and during a particularly spirited performance by the talent, I was sitting there thinking "Man, I wish I could utilize the 32-bit float inside Fairlight."