Native NDI support

Support for NDI output. Competition is already there.
Another option would be NDI input support with recording of native NDI stream and 'grade while ingest ability' (some competition also already there).

this would be great.

Support for NDI output. Competition is already there.
Another option would be NDI input support with recording of native NDI stream and 'grade while ingest ability' (some competition also already there).

I'm not familiar, what's NDI in this context?

NDI is a protocol for streaming image data over network, developed by Newtek.

Support for NDI output. Competition is already there.
Another option would be NDI input support with recording of native NDI stream and 'grade while ingest ability' (some competition also already there).

I'm not familiar, what's NDI in this context?

Maybe because it's not for high-end finish although it can be used even there.
A lot of tools have it now and I know big post house which fall in love with it when it came to Flame.

Simple example (no necessarily studio usage case).
You do grade which sends clean output NDI signal (because Resolve has support for it and you simply turned it on). At the same time there are 2 iPhones pointing to your screen/panel as extra feeds (NDI is there as well). Then you use those feeds in tool like OBS, do some compositing of those 3 signals using 1 of your studio machines (it just has to be part of same local network) and send it as live global stream, so juniors can see and learn from you All at basically no cost and not much expertise as NDI in most cases is "PnP".

It's basically new SDI, but with lower quality, but...
Change your local network to eg. 40Gb (quite often is already more than this in big places), lower compression to 3:1 (currently quality is at around standard ProRes, but under demand can be easily raised) and you have new SDI (without expensive cables/SDI routers etc.), but with 100x bigger possibilities as all signals are bi-directional and present in whole network and can be assess by many machines. In the same time metadata is supported as well (TC etc.) and can be updated to include comments etc. Video is just a data, nothing more and times of treating it in special way (as eg. complex SDI signal) are gone. We can do way more with it now using simple network.

Fast forward a bit in time and you have big movie shoot and cameras send NDI signal which you receive in your suite as live link. You have dailies as they happen and you can already work on them. Sometime later you do use RAW assets, but by then you have a lot of work done already.
We just need those "top people at big post" to wake up or been replace by younger generation,. They hold up whole industry, sorry. Until then...SDI cables 8K is here and we are back to 4 cables for single signal...
Wait, not long time ago we would require 16x 3G SDI cables, so there is a progress

I wonder if there might be reluctance to implement support for a protocol that could be used to circumvent need for a BMD I/O device?

You can’t stop innovation. If you insist you loose. BM pushed so many companies to hard decisions now it’s their time.
You still may need to push image into reference monitor so you may need BM box at the end anyway. NDI tools have BM receiver/transmitter.

It's not particularly useful in Avid and a bit of a faff. We use BMD web presenter boxes which allow you to keep the hardware i/o switched on.

I don't know how AVID has it implemented. Nothing stops them to have both SDI and NDI preview active at the same time. One has not much to do with other. I would like to have it always on (if I choose so), so it doesn't stop me using SDI preview. NDI costs typical modern CPU just few % of usage. Dedicated boxes are cool but at some point you have so many of them and then they get outdated.

Problem with SDI is that every point needs a dedicated card (so slot in machine, drivers etc. or another external box) and meters of cables. I worked at big studio and know something about it
NDI just exists in your network (you do need good network) and every machine can access it with a click.

In your case you can always run NDI to BM app (on the same AVID machine) and still get SDI out even if NDI is active in AVID. Of course it's not anymore uncompressed, but NDI signal, but for typical monitoring it's easily good enough.
You can also do other way around- make SDI active in AVID and then use SDI to NDI app and get NDI signal this way (if card is full duplex you may be able to use same card). That's the beauty- NDI is crazy flexible.

You don't abandon something because competition has it implemented badly
Of course if you crazy want it now in Resolve Nobe Display has NDI support.

don't know how AVID has it implemented. Nothing stops them to have both SDI and NDI preview active at the same time. One has not much to do with other.

It's a 'hardware' implementation and so you have to switch from Decklink to it. SDI is fundamental in any post facility and you tend to lose all audio as well as your monitor if you use NDI in Avid. I'm unsure of how others use it but the web presenter box in series with Decklink is so beautifully simple that it is not something personally need. I am not against your feature request though and anything that helps others, I am for.

NDI supports audio, TC and "any" metadata (standardised closed captioning is coming). NDI also supports alpha channel.
If you really wanted you could add support for eg. AVID marker comments etc. over NDI.
No audio in AVID over NDI? Hm... just very poor implementation from AVID then. Have they actually released such a unfinished thing? Maybe because Adobe had it for long time, so they rushed it

One of the recent tools to get NDI support is Flame.

You also have hardware boxes (fairly well priced). Tiny things which take eg. SDI/HDMI signal and convert into NDI stream. You just hook SDI and network cable and done. Of course you have enterprise solutions from NewTek with their TRICASTER range.
Adoption and spread for NDI in last year or so been crazy. It existed for years, but without huge interest. Probably COVID opened people's eyes.

I didn't say there is no audio over NDI, simply that in most facilities your audio is coming through SDI and so when you switch to NDI you lose audio, since most workstations are not wired to the pc sound card. NDI is not 'badly implemented' in Avid it is just so much more kerfaffle than Web presenter. So you don't need to try and sell it to me

Ahh, ok.
NDI doesn't take audio from the system. It takes it from same place as video (typically).
It's really operates on same principals as SDI- video, audio, meta all synced.

Not really trying to sell it, just describing

I know just gently ribbing

Big +1 on this. NDI is potentially the missing link for remote editing over the internet. You can already do RDP obviously but good luck trying to do accurate work where audio sync, framerate or color are important. Add on an NDI feed (with audio) from Resolve and a tool like NDI Bridge, which does NDI HX conversion on the fly, and all of a sudden this becomes reality. Sure this would be insufficient for critical color grading but for many people including myself, this would be good enough most of the time.

Adobe Premiere already has this feature, please implement ASAP.

A thousand percent.
I just recorded some NDI files and tried to import them into Resolve. They were not recognized.
I found this to be simply shocking with as much of the world as is now moving to NDI.
It should be possible to record multiple NDI streams directly into resolve.
Why should I have to record the streams externally, convert them, and then import them?

Well- other NLEs allows you to work on NDI streams while they've been recorded. For some cases this is HUGE time saver. You can have eg. 8 cameras shoot, live NDI fed+recorded and edited one the fly as multicam.
Just not in Resolve.
There are also first broadcast monitors which take NDI feed directly (without buying extra NDI->SDI/HDMI decoders). It's definitely next step compared to old approach. You can work "while shooting", then later switch to RAW assets before final export. NDI quality is good enough (it's not a direct replacement for SDI though).

Some tools are already quite far in with development (multiple NDI in/out with record option). Looks like only Vegas and Edius (some FB shots suggest it's coming) don't have NDI output yet. Of course Resolve as well, but you can't have it all

This thread is worth keeping alive.
I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reluctance is the competition between BMD and Newtek in the live-production market, NDI of course has been Newtek's poker card to bring unique added value to their products vs. BMD (whose unique offering is CCU-over-SDI). A bit like Adobe and PDF.

But we're talking Resolve here.

I think it's absolutely a very useful feature for remote video streaming reviews, we use it out of Avid and Premiere and love it. It allows pushing clean, quality video into your streaming service of choice.

Our online bays are indeed wired for SDI and we have dedicated streaming machine, but for "offline", editorial reviews, many bays or not wired for SDI to the machine room; and it's pointless to spend $$ on a higher-end capture device just to run a BNC jumper from its SDI out to the SDI in (that's one of Evercast's official workflows…)
Furthermore, many editing systems are now fully remote and live in a server farm, so no point in adding SDI hardware to them.

And and btw… looks like there's a (non-native) plugin that does it:

http://timeinpixels.com/files/2021-05-24_newsletter_ndi_upgrade.html

It was there long time ago inside Nobe Display. New is just price offer for Nobe Display
Not the same as native though.
I want native support with separate/calibration/color space path. Almost like a 2nd preview path (like Nuke does).

In the meantime Edius got NDI support, so it's Resolve again to be... about last.

Wake the dead thread!

My studio for live production is 100% NDI. Every time I get a contract with another studio or network they ask for my NDI bridge or remote.

And NDI 6 has been released with an official HDR support.

We are using Resolve and Flame on AWS cloud, NDI output is critical to send the broadcast signal to our monitoring devices, client iPads, AppleTVs for review or live sessions.

Please please please, this should be native rather than via a plugin...

Have you ever tried AWS CDI (equivalent of SDI) transport option? They have this tech, but never seen it working in real life.
NDI is easier and lighter and works on good VPN connections, even if it's not really designed for WAN (well latest version is I assume).

How well does NDI work in Flame?

[Peter Chamberlain]

DaVinci Resolve has Remote Monitoring and now with the new DeckLink 2110 support.

Not that easy to use when machine is in the cloud.
Remote monitor with few Mbits h264 is not good enough quality.
Something like ProResHQ equivalent is needed for grading sessions.
NDI is slightly too much compressed.

[Peter Chamberlain]

We have Hollywood films graded remotely using Resolve remote monitoring on AWS systems so I’m not sure what you’re looking for Andrew. Take another look since 19.1

Monitoring over WAN with visually lossless quality. Maybe it's already there.
Direct access to S3 assets with ability to play full quality files, like ProRes 4K masters etc.

+1 for NDI, maybe its a pipe dream

My use case would be to work more easily with Louper streaming service.

We have Hollywood films graded remotely using Resolve remote monitoring on AWS systems so I’m not sure what you’re looking for Andrew. Take another look since 19.1

Very true, it's excellent. NDI support would just allow for a ton of other workflows with other systems. I know there is a licensing fee, but a lot of pros would gladly pay an additional premium to have this as an additional feature. It would just allow us to integrate with lot of other tools like Louper. (I know it's a competitive product to Presentations, but it provides a ton of creature comforts for clients that makes it quite different than Presentations). NDI support would also allow for easy software only output to OBS as well, great for streaming tutorials and teaching applications, especially at an educational level.

Resolve remote grading based on full quality assets been on every system involved?
Are we talking about this feature?

Remote Monitoring is separate from Remote Grading and is a newer feature in Resolve. It allows live streaming of the video output to H.264/H.265 at a bit rate/bit depth/subsampling of your choice (hardware-dependant). The receiving end uses either a client application that's distributed with DaVinci Resolve Studio that can output to a GPU/DeckLink, or a free iPadOS/iOS app.

I assume delay is not 1-3 frames, but much more?
Bitrate is up to 200Mbit if I remember well ?
Does it work on Mx Macs?

Solution which I was working on 8 years ago was sending Jpeg2000 (visually lossless) over fast link and delay between London/Paris/London was 20ms. This allowed to have totally remote office in Paris, where all equipment was in London. It worked great. Today you can do such a thing 100x cheaper

I will also add that Nobe Displays and Flowcaster both make plugins for this feature.

If it was enough for them to create workarounds why not have it built in instead?

See here:
https://timeinpixels.com/files/2021-05- ... grade.html

And here:
https://www.drastic.tv/productsmenu-56/ ... flowcaster

The usefulness is purely to have it engage with lots of other software that support NDI natively, and while it's true that Resolve has it's own system and its Great! When you are working with other companies and trying to engage with their workflow this would help greatly.

Native support would really ease the setup requirements too, since even tools like Nobe Display require the use of a Node.

You want a native implementation to minimise delay as much as possible.
NobeDisplay had this option for quite a time, but with NDI 6 now there is a better 16bit pipe with official HDR support.

+1000 for NDI support please!!!! Thank you!!!

Definitely being able to create an NDI stream like an external monitor would helps us a lot.

And make it resolution independent please. We work in architectural mapping and use that to output our strange canvas/pixels map to media servers NDI input and be able to work color correction live on the building (and thus take the surface color shift into account).

It is really vital for our workflow and is why we are stuck with Ado** and hate it every day...

Nobe Display is ok, but having to node link it to every timeline is a bit of a hassle when rushing at 4am in the cold and the rain

+1000

I reply on NDI to sling the Resolve signal to my Quest headset for grading in VR, including this series (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/ ... 0240606-01). Currently using NobeDisplay, which works so so well, but being an OFX, there is a massive hit to playback speed. A native integration would be amazing.

+1

To anyone using Nobe Display - I downloaded it and it's not working great for me. I don't see much documentation.

I saw you need to add the Nobe Display from the Library to at least one node, but will that only show that one clip that those nodes are associated with? Also, effects didn't work all that well.

Looking for any overall thoughts of Nobe and a quick tip on how to just play my timeline from the edit page. Thanks!

Switch in grading page view to Timeline (from clip) and then add NobeNode there.