Support for ProRes Raw

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macadamiaFilm

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Feb 25, 2021 1:47 pm

I totally agree with the initial post!!

Additionally:
What's the status quo of the discussion of supporting PRR along with BRAW in the same camera? I would probably prefer a BMD Video Assist 12G over a Ninja V as a recording device/field monitor.

This has also been discussed to extend but to my knowledge there's still no answer to what extend which party can be held responsible for the overall failure to integrate BRAW and PRR side by side in supporting cameras.

This game seems to go on on various levels here...
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Bill Heath

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Feb 25, 2021 5:17 pm

Nice start to this thread.

Ha! I too have been in the biz for decades, working in film, now digital. And years with Avid too.
I have a Pana S1H now, that will record PR Raw. That function has yet to be tested by me, because I do all my work in Resolve Studio now. What's the point if Resolve won't play the format?

Anyway, it's an amazing application that used to cost post houses a squilion dollars to license, so things aren't that bad. Although I feel bad for the post houses that have to say no to their clients about ProRes Raw. No is always the wrong answer, which is what we seem to be hearing from BM.

Thanks for listening, and have a g'day!
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Bunny42

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostFri Mar 05, 2021 10:51 am

Atomos and Sony announced ProRes RAW development for the Sony A1 with full white balance support! Would love it if Blackmagic would add support for decoding this codec.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostFri Mar 05, 2021 12:32 pm

I wanted to add an observation here. I am researching production monitors and I keep coming back to the Atomos Sumo 19, even with all of it's flaws. One thing I noticed in their false color settings they offer lots of camera options...but not any Blackmagic options.

Seriously, both of you grow up and act like adults. Other individuals besides yourselves are being financially impacted by this silliness.
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Simon Rabeder

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostSat Mar 06, 2021 9:40 pm

I totally agree, it is very limiting. People will try other NLEs because of this, those might not do everything PR does but if it does what they need they will move on eventually.

I think BMD won't feel the effect now but in the long run this will damage the trust people have in PR always being there and that you can throe anything reasonably professional at it.

But for me this development already started when free Resolve didn't"t support 10bit .264 when it had already supported XAVC which is essentially the same thing. It was just inconveniencing pana shooters.
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Mark Foster

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostSat Mar 06, 2021 10:06 pm

Bill Heath wrote:.....What's the point if Resolve won't play the format?.....


http://sites.thomsonreuters.com.au/jour ... Watson.pdf
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RikshaDriver

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 1:38 am

Mark Foster wrote:
Bill Heath wrote:.....What's the point if Resolve won't play the format?.....


http://sites.thomsonreuters.com.au/jour ... Watson.pdf


Recording ProRes RAW and Decoding ProRes RAW are two separate things. The ask is for the latter, not the former.
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Mark Foster

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostSun Mar 07, 2021 1:38 pm

RikshaDriver wrote:Recording ProRes RAW and Decoding ProRes RAW are two separate things. The ask is for the latter, not the former.


you dit not understand was this document says

and from where proresRAW comes


.
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RikshaDriver

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 3:40 am

I read it long before it was posted on this forum.

I've said this before either in this thread or another similar one...

ProRes RAW is developed by Apple.

ANY vendor can license ProRes RAW for recording or decoding of content.

No vendor has a monopoly on this. DJI have also implemented ProRes RAW for recording on one of their Drone mounted cameras.

But that's not the argument here. The ask in this thread and others is to support DECODING of ProRes RAW inside DaVinci Resolve.
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scottpgreen

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 9:25 am

RikshaDriver wrote:The ask in this thread and others is to support DECODING of ProRes RAW inside DaVinci Resolve.



+infinity for this feature. ASAP PLEASE.
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Mark Foster

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 9:35 am

RikshaDriver wrote:....... ProRes RAW is developed by Apple. . . . .


but in cooperation with atomos!
and that is the point.

grant will never forget ;- )
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 am

Mark Foster wrote:grant will never forget ;- )

Silence, puny user, it was supposed to be only Apples fault!
I do stuff.
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Mark Foster

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 11:01 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:Silence, puny user, it was supposed to be only Apples fault!


in that case apple is guiltless for once +g*
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John Jurko

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 1:12 am

Yes, this is a major headache not that my entire camera workflow is ProRes RAW. I was just starting to love editing in Davinci Resolve, and now I'm going to have to go back to Premiere for now... :(
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John Jurko

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 1:14 am

EDIT23 wrote:I'd like to add my support to the forum. I don't have a RED or BMCC. The ProRes Raw has gained traction in many smaller cine cams.
I'm new to Davinci Resolve (From Premiere) and was really disappointed to find out they don't offer support.
Please listen to the field of professionals which you serve so well!


I'm in the same position. Loving Davinci Resolve, but feeling like I'm going to have to go back to Premiere to edit...
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stasevitch

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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostMon Mar 15, 2021 5:43 am

I just noticed that I can't work on Apple ProRes RAW in Davinci!!! :| is there any solution? need urgent!
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Re: ProRes RAW needs to be supported ASAP

PostThu Mar 18, 2021 4:27 am

stasevitch wrote:I just noticed that I can't work on Apple ProRes RAW in Davinci!!! :| is there any solution? need urgent!

Short of transcoding everything, no.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostFri Apr 02, 2021 9:17 pm

I'd like to request this as well. +1 for ProRes RAW support.

I'm more than happy to pay for ProRes RAW activation in Resolve Studio if that is what is needed. I know it's technically a competitor product, but Atomos Ninja's and the FLOOD of prores raw support has us moving back to Adobe Premiere for reasons we can't control. This is just the footage we get.

If Resolve wants to compete as an NLE on the larger market, I don't see how this can be avoided. It has to happen.
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ricardo marty

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostFri Apr 02, 2021 10:05 pm

My opinion is that bmd supporting braw will mostly help "atomos" BMD" Because they are supporting PRR in many cameras and thus go in detriment of BRAW. It's a business description and you cant blame them for that. If we don't like it then we must make a decision and keep keeping on. I'm sure that as soon as more cameras have braw available BMD will reconsider.


Ricardo Marty

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 9:32 am

I don't know whos to blame, but I know that BMD is not having a good point here. Storytime:

I'm currently in a tricky situation, since my PremierePro isn't working properly (again) and I need to get an edit done.

So I downloaded the free version of DaVinci to test it out. Anyway, the free version doesn't seem to support my A7SIII 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC-S 4kp120 files, so I thought about getting the full version. Then I remembered that DaVinci does not support ProRes RAW yet what I at least shoot with sometimes. And now i find this thread, realizing this has been a problem for way longer than last years release of the A7SIII (that's where I first learned about RAW Video and recording with the Ninja V).

So why would I bother buying DaVinci now? I mean, yeah, I had the chance to buy a BMPCC6K instead of an A7SIII 2 months ago, but 1. I can't use my e-mount lenses on it, 2. I already had the Ninja V and 3. I simply don't like the design. So I've gone with something that a lot of people do: Go for what most people are using and therefore choose PRR instead of BRAW.

DaVinci looks like a nice software, way more practical than Premiere; too bad I can't use it with the footage I have right now. And still I already can say I would totally buy DaVinci, looking at the cost of Adobe I would even pay more than just 300-ish bucks, but only if it fits my needs 100% and that would be PRR support. And I guess a lot of people think similar, especially those who have problems with Adobe software constantly. So a lot of people choose to not buy something from BMD and that's a big fault of BMD imo.
99% of People don't decide to buy your camera based on what codec the software can handle, they buy it for ANY other reason. Or the other way round: I don't buy a camera just so I can use some form of RAW in DaVinci. So get over it, pay apple for PRR support, pump the price to 400 bucks and maybe add a 14 day trial for DaVinci Studio.

btw: Also would use FCPX, but my MacBook is too weak for it and for the price of a decent iMac I can easily upgrade my Win-PC to the latest and greatest. So that's not an option either. I hate editing. Sometimes I wish Adobe wouldn't suck at what they're doing with their software.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 5:01 pm

You can always use both and rent Premiere only when working with ProRes RAW.
It’s all your decision. You will basically never meet all your expectations with one software.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue Apr 20, 2021 7:00 pm

I disagree. If Blackmagic wants to play in the professional NLE market, they need to support all formats used by pros, including ProRes Raw, otherwise their tools are just toys.
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Johan Vierne

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue Apr 27, 2021 9:14 am

JerryG wrote:I disagree. If Blackmagic wants to play in the professional NLE market, they need to support all formats used by pros, including ProRes Raw, otherwise their tools are just toys.


you've said everything I think about
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostMon May 03, 2021 10:19 am

Something to consider is that we don't know how the interactions with RED played out after the whole compressed RAW fiasco with the use of compressed CDNG on some of BMD's earlier cinema cameras.

As adding support for ProRes RAW would presumably require a license from RED, the situation around that may have left a bad taste in BMD's mouth so to speak (it certainly did in mine), plus there may be legal roadblocks to adding this - BMD might not really have a choice but to omit that?

Again, this is just speculation, but if there is anything of that nature (some agreement between BMD and RED that prevents them from pursuing this) it might be that no amount of pleading for the feature will be effective until RED changes their policies or somehow the patent system gets fixed and their patent on compressed RAW formats is invalidated, as it should have been from the beginning.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostMon May 03, 2021 11:03 am

Decoding of basically any common RAW format is free, this includes ProResRAW.
Encoding is not, but this is worry for camera manufactures, not software providers.

It has nothing to do with RED, not idea where you get it from. ProResRAW is free of any RED "issue" as ATOMOS/Apple are paying RED needed licensing fees (this is encoder side anyway).
If it has anything to do with some company it will be ATOMOS as BM "loves" them :D
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jallen0

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostMon May 03, 2021 12:15 pm

Which is shortsighted because it literally drives people to buy Atomos products to get ProRes Raw.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostMon May 03, 2021 7:46 pm

All cameras have internal recording formats as well. People may choose to buy Atomos recorder as a way to get more out of their camera, but no one forces them to do so (and many don't by Atomos recorders). They may choose to buy BM camera which doesn't need extra recorder for RAW- those are individual choices.

Resolve support of ProResRAW has not much to do directly with above.
It's strategic decision for BM. As I said before. Resolve support for ProResRAW weakness somehow BRAW and slightly their cameras' range (although I don't think it's a big worry). Resolve not supporting ProResRAW weakens Resolve position as popular NLE (specially if ProResRAW support will continue growing). If BM wants to promote BRAW more as a universal RAW format then they have to get more recorders and camera support. Atm. I'm not seeing this happening, so their only choice is to support ProResRAW in Resolve and strengthen its position this way. In the same time keep BRAW mainly as their own RAW format.
There are only few ways out of this situation and I think decision needs to be finally made (if it wasn't already). BM can't keep escaping it.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 5:01 pm

Just came here to give my +1 for ProResRAW.

I'm heavily invested in Sony stuff as a photographer and began to edit video (which I'm taking with a A9 right now). I'm looking for a better specced video cam in the Sony world (because of my lenses, maybe an A7SIII oder FX3) and thought about pairing it with an Atomos Ninja V - I'm longing for a better dynamic range like with my photo RAWs and thought about using RAW video recording.
Meanwhile I found Resolve to be a really interesting NLE, coming from FCP. Excited about Resolve and reaching the limits of the free version I didn't hesitate to buy the studio version.
Just to find out NOW that my desired hardware(software) wouldn't be supported the way I thought. Which I find astonishing having the impression that ProResRAW ist everywhere I look.

Long story short: I wouldn't have bought Resolve Studio if I had known earlier that ProResRAW is not supported (at least decoding). Please BM, make Studio even more attractive to new and existing customers.
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 5:19 pm

ronnyw wrote:I'm longing for a better dynamic range like with my photo RAWs and thought about using RAW video recording.

As long as you're recording in log you'll get the full dynamic range without using raw.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 6:54 pm

With small downsides you can record in eg. ProRes444 and have very good quality source as well.
RAW recording has its advantages, but I'm not actually talking about ISO, temp, etc. controls. I think the key element is fact that RAW recording is the most optimal way of storing best quality at smallest file sizes/compression. We just need to store 1 component out of 3 compared to already debayered video. This itself gives 67% file size/bitrate savings.
Still lack of RAW recording is not end of the world.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 8:53 pm

There's no good business reason for refusing to implement ProRes Raw in Resolve. Its availability wouldn't reduce the likelihood of my purchasing another BM camera. Not to mention what lots of other people are saying here: Shooters are going to choose the camera they want, for the camera's capabilities. If they can't edit the results in Resolve, it's Resolve that's going to get canned.

As a matter of fact, BlackMagic might wind up selling MORE cameras. If you could get a full Resolve Studio license with some extra important features for the cost of a BMPCC 6K, why not just buy the camera?

BMD's refusal to support ProRes Raw in Resolve is unprofessional and disappointing; a diminution of their credibility and a degradation of a formerly highly professional application.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 8:58 pm

PalmerWoodrow wrote:
BMD's refusal to support ProRes Raw in Resolve is unprofessional and disappointing; a diminution of their credibility and a degradation of a formerly highly professional application.


This is unfortunately true.
BM must not forget that "business is business" - there is really no place for sentiments etc. :)
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ricardo marty

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostTue May 04, 2021 9:46 pm

I understand that atomos has exclusive agreement with apple for the use of PRR. If BMD is excluded and cannot get it for its Video assist then it's not a good business decision to implement PRR in DR, cameras and other hardware.


Ricardo Marty
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostWed May 05, 2021 2:55 am

Another vote for ProRes RAW support!! I don’t like having to transcode just to get my footage into my favorite NLE. Sometimes it would just be easier to edit in FCPX.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:09 am

ricardo marty wrote:I understand that atomos has exclusive agreement with apple for the use of PRR. If BMD is excluded and cannot get it for its Video assist then it's not a good business decision to implement PRR in DR, cameras and other hardware.


Ricardo Marty


I don’t think it does.
ProResRAW is in one of the DJI drones implemented natively.
Besides having BRAW it makes no sense for BM spending money to bring ProResRAW to their recorders.

Decode support in Resolve is very different story though.
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:38 am

ricardo marty wrote:I understand that atomos has exclusive agreement with apple for the use of PRR. If BMD is excluded and cannot get it for its Video assist then it's not a good business decision to implement PRR in DR, cameras and other hardware.


Ricardo Marty


Indeed, it's been very annoying not being able to use PRR in Resolve. Transcoding is filling up my hard drives quite quickly. I'm not going back to Premiere though... So I bought a Video Assist and will now use BRAW on my S1H. Probably less expensive down the line... I guess that's one for BM, and with more BRAW compatible cameras, they're able capture more people and keep them in their ecosystem...
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ricardo marty

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:12 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:I understand that atomos has exclusive agreement with apple for the use of PRR. If BMD is excluded and cannot get it for its Video assist then it's not a good business decision to implement PRR in DR, cameras and other hardware.


Ricardo Marty


I don’t think it does.
ProResRAW is in one of the DJI drones implemented natively.
Besides having BRAW it makes no sense for BM spending money to bring ProResRAW to their recorders.

Decode support in Resolve is very different story though.


Exclusively as far as monitor recorders. A couple of years ago I saw a video from atomos which mentioned this. However don't know it it's still the case. BMD will not make PPR available in DR so that people only purchase the atomos. BMD is not going to help the competition and specially atomos.


Ricardo Marty
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:15 pm

I think exclusive time for Atomos has passed.

Well- this is BM call. By not supporting ProRes RAW they'll definitely loose some Resolve users (it's already happening).
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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostFri May 07, 2021 5:46 pm

ricardo marty wrote:BMD will not make PPR available in DR so that people only purchase the atomos.


Atmos isn't DR's competition... Premiere Pro, Avid, and FCPX are.
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ricardo marty

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Re: Support for ProRes Raw

PostSat May 08, 2021 12:49 am

JerryG wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:BMD will not make PPR available in DR so that people only purchase the atomos.


Atmos isn't DR's competition... Premiere Pro, Avid, and FCPX are.



If BMD opens DR up to ppr the flood to purchase atomos will open affecting va and bmd cameras. BMD is in the hardware business mostly. Particularly if VA does not offer PPR. which it shouldn't.


Ricardo Marty
Resolve Studio 17, Lenovo 7i15, i7-10750H Processor, 6 Cores, Nvidia 2060 6Gb, 16Gb ram, 512 nvme sd. Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6600. Focusrite ableton
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