Support for ProRes Raw

Jeremy stepped down months ago and is still associated with the company in a Director's role.

But yes, maybe there is an opportunity. However what opportunity are you looking for? Do you think Atomos is stopping Blackmagic from offering ProRes Raw? Or would you like to see Blackmagic allow Atomos monitors to capture BRAW?

Jeremy stepped down months ago and is still associated with the company in a Director's role.

But yes, maybe there is an opportunity. However what opportunity are you looking for? Do you think Atomos is stopping Blackmagic from offering ProRes Raw? Or would you like to see Blackmagic allow Atomos monitors to capture BRAW?

If DR offers PRR there will be no incentive for atomos and apple to offer Braw. BRaw will be relegated to a small group. Thats where apple wants braw to b. bMD is not stupid. Right now ppr pro users cannot use DR grading so its hurting them to. Grant is holding steady and that's what he needs to do.

Ricardo Marty

Why would Atomos offer BRAW?
Start with fact that BM is not offering BRAW encoder to anyone. Never heard of an option to license it and do recorder based on it. I doubt that they would wanted to license it to Atomos anyway.
BRAW atm. in reality is just a BM internal format ( extra support through BM recorders is rather limited). ProResRAW doesn’t belong to any camera manufacture. It’s for everyone who wants to add support through Atomos recorders. This is quite a fundamental difference.

Decoding part is totally separate from encoding although if you think about it as formats war then it all links to each other as well.
BM/Apple can add support if they decide so without looking to each other.
It’s easier for Apple as they can just take BM SDK and implement it. BM needs to talk to Apple/Atomos to get SDK ad it’s not publicly available, but I would be very surprised if they said NO.

Neither side is in crazy strong position.
Resolve users deal somehow with ProResRAW and in the same time FCPX users deal with lack of BRAW. It would be great if support would be there on both side but it’s not end of the world.

Resolve supports all other flavors of ProRes, and BlackMagicDesign seems to be doing just fine. ProRes RAW will eventually get big enough that they will have to support it. As an industry leader it would be nice if they would support the indie film community by adding ProRes RAW instead of simply giving us the silent treatment.

These 2 ProRes families are fundamentally different thing. They are linked just by ProRes encoding schema.
RAW format is rather special thing where standard ProRes is just another intermediate format.

Resolve still doesn't support ProRes encoding on Windows which is unproportionally bigger issue than lack of ProResRAW import ability,

Resolve still doesn't support ProRes encoding on Windows which is unproportionally bigger issue than lack of ProResRAW import ability,

100% that…

These 2 ProRes families are fundamentally different thing. They are linked just by ProRes encoding schema.
RAW format is rather special thing where standard ProRes is just another intermediate format.

Resolve still doesn't support ProRes encoding on Windows which is unproportionally bigger issue than lack of ProResRAW import ability,

From a development integration standpoint, they are the same. Apple even supplies a full fledged SDK to integrate ProRes RAW into your app with minimal effort. Implementation would take less than a day if they wanted to add it.

Exactly, but they server very different needs and here we are mainly focused on ProResRAW decoding engine. RAW encoding is very different story and it only concerns camera/recorders manufactures (not NLEs etc. world).

Yes Correct, ProRes Raw encoding is an acquisition codec. The ProRes RAW footage cannot be created by any other means other than directly from the camera’s Bayer sensor. Prores Raw decoding is all that is needed here. The SDK Apple provides is for decoding. What’s the hold up?

What’s the hold up?

Children having a fight I guess.

And here I am, having just recently made the move from Premiere to Resolve Studio, and then getting a nice surprise when Atomos releases an update for my Ninja V to allow 5k ProRes Raw recording from my R5.

I hurriedly run the update, configure the R5 and Ninja V to talk in raw and shoot a test clip.

Imagine my disappointment when I try to pull that file into Resolve Studio.

I personally have no love for Apple in general, so I couldn't care less about PRR specifically, but since that's what the recorder suppprts, it'd be really nice if my friggin editor could use it....

BUMP.

ProResRaw import/edit in DR please. PLEASE, PLEASE, BEGGIN' ON MY KNEES PLEASE!

It's time for a bump. Chrismas is coming.

I'm sure that when bmd gets most cameras to record braw through video assist and apple includes braw in fcpx then bmd will consider it. as of now some panasonic, sigma, fuji, and Nikon can record braw via video assist. So it's getting there.

Ricardo Marty

I half expected a public beta release of v18 this week as NAB 2021 was scheduled for this week before it was cancelled. Still hoping v18 will have ProRes Raw (but above all ProRes encoding on Windows).

I half expected a public beta release of v18 this week as NAB 2021 was scheduled for this week before it was cancelled. Still hoping v18 will have ProRes Raw (but above all ProRes encoding on Windows).

i think having NAB (and IBC and probably InterBee cancelled) gave Blackmagic a bit more time to polish whatever they are looking to show to us....

IBC is happening in December.

IBC is happening in December.

ah! they moved it!...

let's see if they actually do it......

IBC is happening in December.

ah! they moved it!...

let's see if they actually do it......

fingers crossed, #hopeful

DJI's new camera (that came out today) has internal ProRes RAW recording. So it's not just Atomos anymore.

BMD, you need to get over your snit with Atomos and add ProRes Raw to your product, or you will get left behind.

They already had it in older model, so it's not a break through news.

Also of note. Apple's new M1 chips have added a hardware accelerated section of the chip dedicated to decoding ProRes RAW.

Nikon Z9 should get (I hope they talk about ProRes) RAW internal.
Perhaps when it gets more a „they all support ProRes RAW“ and less a Atomos recorder thing we will see it supported in Resolve


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

Yes, it's coming to Nikon Z9 in next year.
ProRes RAW up to 4K and new Nikon RAW (most likely RAW) own format as well up to 8K 60p. Maybe Nikon paid RED some fee and enabled themselves to outperform others.
8K 60p 12 bit RAW video inside still camera is definitely worth noticing.

the new dji 4 axis gimbal camera will also have PRR though only in the HQ mode and up to 2k resolution.

Ricardo Marty

Yes, but here encoding in sort of separated from "camera".
Z9 will be first camera which has "real internal" (all in same unified body) PR encoding.
These are details which are not really relevant in real world, but they could be key argument in relation to eg. RED patent.

Davinci Resolve is supposed to be one of the top grading software in the industry.
It doesn’t make any sense that they don’t support one of the more increasingly popular RAW formats in the industry. You just can’t said to a client: sorry, the software I use doesn’t support it.
I hope politics doesn’t blind them, and we get ProRes Raw support soon.

Davinci Resolve is supposed to be one of the top grading software in the industry.
It doesn’t make any sense that they don’t support one of the more increasingly popular RAW formats in the industry. You just can’t said to a client: sorry, the software I use doesn’t support it.
I hope politics doesn’t blind them, and we get ProRes Raw support soon.

Increasingly how? It's mostly if not totally only available on some external recorders. It only has to make sense to bmd. I don't think they are not supporting it just cause, They might have a very, very good reason for not supporting it. The PPR users are just as frustrated for not being able to finish in DR CC.

Ricardo Marty

I would suggest some plugin based proress support (little extra cost paid plugin/render module) that could add proress formats support to davinci resolve if that could solve license policy.

But I would love more if there would be braw format supported in all available cameras by default and i hope blackmagic will make their format even better - improve gpu acceleration support (metal, cuda, opencl + hip api's)

What license policy?
Licensing costs is 0 for both formats.
Problem is not there.

Increasingly how? It's mostly if not totally only available on some external recorders. It only has to make sense to bmd. I don't think they are not supporting it just cause; They might have a very, very good reason for not supporting it. The PPR users are just as frustrated for not being able to finish in DR CC.

Ricardo Marty

Even if it is in external recorders, every camera manufacturer is allowing Atomos to have the possibility of recording in RAW with their cameras. Even the DJI camera records it natively now.
So probably there are even more people that record in ProRes RAW than in ArriRAW. More clients are going to go to you to work with their footage, and, with DaVinci Resolve, currently, you can’t do it natively. You have to look for a workaround that it’s not the optimal thing to do, mostly losing the RAW metadata in the way.
So I think that asking for ProRes RAW support in one of the top grading software in the industry makes a lot of sense

I don't think any more requests are needed.
BM is 100% aware of the situation. It's all their call.
And yes, ProResRAW users base is growing and most interesting moment will be when Nikon Z9 will get internal ProResRAW in next year.

While I think PRR should be supported by DR I also think BRAW is the nicer recording option, since you get more control over the Codec (variable bitrare and constant bitrate) which is great. But it definitely looks like PRR is taking over...an now with the M1s supporting hardware encoding...it's hard to beat.

With push and demand you can ask for constant bitrate ( or higher compression ratios ) in ProResRAW. It’s all fairly easily implementable. Now when codec is at least a bit established Atomos/Apple can think what next.

IBC is happening in December.

IBC Cancels In-Person Event in Amsterdam Over COVID-19 Situation
November 23, 2021
https://variety.com/2021/digital/global ... 235118095/

NAB in Vegas for April 2021 is still on "at the moment."

+1

I recommend my clients shoot BRAW when possible but I would still like to be able to accept ProresRAW for those who don't accept my guidance.

At least there is a new option to convert to CinemaDNG

https://www.cined.com/raw-convertor-new ... cinemadng/


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro

I wonder why they say the ProRes Raw to CDNG converter needs individual calibration per camera. Is it just worded strangely and they mean things like color space/gamma representation? I would assume the original file has enough metadata to be able to create a matching CDNG.

In case of DNG format/camera specific matrixes are written inside DNG headers. Then they are read by Resolve engine when processing RAW. You need them to get proper RAW initial look. It can work without them but then your RAW will look 'wild'. At least I understand it this why.

Some info here:
http://vfx-rants.blogspot.com/2012/08/b ... m-raw.html

With enough patience you could write converter which would use CineformRAW, instead of DNG which performs poorly. Key element here is fact that ProResRAW provides RAW pixels in its SDK, so it's easy to access them. Then it's just a matter of metadata processing and including it in your new RAW format. No idea how ProResRAW handles internal metadata, but it all should be there and you just need to understand it and convert to format which DNG needs. Looks like someone was bored enough
RAW to RAW is nothing more than simple B&W video conversion with extra metadata aside. This metadata is actually the biggest problem.

Speaking of DNG performance, I was surprised how well it works in Resolve now compared to the same system five years ago. Seems there's been a lot of optimization.

Some info here:
http://vfx-rants.blogspot.com/2012/08/b ... m-raw.html

Don’t take everything I wrote there as totally technically accurate, but general idea should hold up

David N. also confirmed it, so idea should be correct I assume

Anyone here with a PRR workflow made the switch from Resolve to Assimilate Scratch? Native PRR support, faster than Resolve. Just missing the Magic Masks!

+1 for all ProRes formats in Resolve in Windows.

I'm a Panasonic GH5S user and the ONLY RAW format I have access to with my hardware investment is ProRes RAW. It'd be great if Panasonic also supported BRAW, but it doesn't.

Regardless, much as I hate to say it, but there are technical reviews that show that ProRes RAW is more "RAW-like" than BRAW. e.g.:

And ProResRAW is available on more camera systems...

Scott

ProResRAW is technically more RAW (just by pure fact that SDK allows to access RAW pixels, so you can do own processing), but in real world for end user this is meaningless.

ProResRAW is technically more RAW (just by pure fact that SDK allows to access RAW pixels, so you can do own processing), but in real world for end user this is meaningless.

The difference on a bigger screen such as a 48" OLED is quite obvious actually. So much that 4K PRR/CDNG has way more detail/texture and also much finer grain than 6K BRAW. It's that bad.

ProResRAW is technically more RAW (just by pure fact that SDK allows to access RAW pixels, so you can do own processing), but in real world for end user this is meaningless.

The difference on a bigger screen such as a 48" OLED is quite obvious actually. So much that 4K PRR/CDNG has way more detail/texture and also much finer grain than 6K BRAW. It's that bad.

properly light and exposed images with the exact same lens?

ProResRAW is technically more RAW (just by pure fact that SDK allows to access RAW pixels, so you can do own processing), but in real world for end user this is meaningless.

The difference on a bigger screen such as a 48" OLED is quite obvious actually. So much that 4K PRR/CDNG has way more detail/texture and also much finer grain than 6K BRAW. It's that bad.

This is a different subject.

Anyone here with a PRR workflow made the switch from Resolve to Assimilate Scratch? Native PRR support, faster than Resolve. Just missing the Magic Masks!

Scratch costs $1,200 and includes only 1 year of updates. As of now, you'll have very hard time finding anything as capable as Resolve in a similar price point/licensing model.