Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

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Pavle Milicevic

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Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 4:21 pm

Please, let this be said - we need Prores on Windows. It's kind of a silly situation in which from all the software I have on my machine, Resolve is the most used, but it's the only one that doesn't have Prores implemented.

Honestly if it was up to me, I'd be fine with DNxHR but them clients you know..
Last edited by Pavle Milicevic on Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 4:39 pm

+1
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 5:03 pm

+1
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ShaheedMalik

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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 7:43 pm

ProRes already works on Windows.

Are you asking for ProRes Raw?
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Pavle Milicevic

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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 8:08 pm

ProRes already works on Windows.


I want to export to Prores. Not just read one. Prores RAW is different matter, but also needed probably.
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 9:20 pm

The workaround now is to use Adobe Media Encoder to save out a Prores version. Would love to hear the real reason for why this isn't supported in Resolve on Windows.
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 10:00 pm

Pavle Milicevic wrote:
ProRes already works on Windows.


I want to export to Prores. Not just read one. Prores RAW is different matter, but also needed probably.


Maybe you should update the thread title to ProRes Export on windows so it more
Clear..
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 12:31 am

Pavle Milicevic wrote:
ProRes already works on Windows.


I want to export to Prores. Not just read one. Prores RAW is different matter, but also needed probably.


The plugin Voukoder contains the FFMPEG version of Prores. Quality wise it's very good but you couldn't use it in commercial work as final export for clients due to possible technical, legal and ethical problems
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 4:42 am

carsonjones wrote:The workaround now is to use Adobe Media Encoder to save out a Prores version. Would love to hear the real reason for why this isn't supported in Resolve on Windows.


Nothing official has ever been published as to the reason for bmd not implementing prores raw But the fact that apple has a special arrangement with Atomos makes this a mute question. BMD is not going to hand out business to atomos. IF bmd cant license pr-raw for the video assist they will not make dvr pr-raw capable because it will affect their sales. the deal between atomos and apple appears to be very solid.


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Re: Prores on Windows

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 5:07 am

It's simple:
Apple is giving you the OS for free, so they need to sell hardware.
BM is giving you DR for free (or a price far too low to be realistic), so they need to sell hardware.

Regarding ProRes (non-RAW) on Windows: I doubt that using Voukoder is very problematic, since it's for free. Judging from the past, Apple is sending their lawyers only if you sell ProRes. It happened to Cinemartin, and now they don't exist any more. But as long as ffmpeg is free, they obviously tolerate it. If your client will accept it is another question, since it's not blessed by Apple. But if you have such demanding clients, use one of the many commercial solutions and charge for it.

Disclaimer:
I'm not a lawyer, in particular not an American one ;-)
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 8:59 am

Still Blackmagic caters too much for apple, so apple sells more hardware,
examples : Camera for IPHONE , Micro panel for IPAD , prores raw in all macs and others that I can't recall atm.
There are Cameras working with prores that can't won't be ignored imo, because at the end of the day both companies Apple and BMD produce frustration and hate.

Regards
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Re: Prores on Windows

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 9:57 am

dgrigo wrote:Still Blackmagic caters too much for apple, so apple sells more hardware,
examples : Camera for IPHONE , Micro panel for IPAD , prores raw in all macs and others that I can't recall atm.
There are Cameras working with prores that can't won't be ignored imo, because at the end of the day both companies Apple and BMD produce frustration and hate.

Regards


Thats why I changed from Windows to Mac and up to now I'm satisfied.
The micropanel is also for normal use in windows.

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 10:05 am

I've changed title of post to better clarify, that what I've meant is EXPORT of Prores in Resolve on Windows, not import (which works mighty fine, except Prores RAW).
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 2:09 am

+1
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 5:44 am

That's why Voukoder got mentioned, which is the easiest way to get it.
There must be legal and/or economical issues around officially supporting it, or it would have happened a long time ago.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 10:22 am

Voukoder / ffmpeg pipeline is 10-bit limited. So forget about ProRes 4:4:4:4.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 11:44 am

If you really need ProRes 4x4, you should also earn the money with it to get one of the commercial solutions.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 5:42 pm

Uli Plank wrote:If you really need ProRes 4x4, you should also earn the money with it to get one of the commercial solutions.


Last time I've checked, I've paid for Resolve Studio sir.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 6:15 pm

Uli Plank wrote:If you really need ProRes 4x4, you should also earn the money with it to get one of the commercial solutions.


Uli which commercial options are you referring to? Not meant as a snarky comment, I'm genuinely interested in hearing about commercial options available and whether we can get them working with Resolve directly. Short of that, Adobe Media Encoder works just fine.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 6:21 pm

carsonjones wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:If you really need ProRes 4x4, you should also earn the money with it to get one of the commercial solutions.


Uli which commercial options are you referring to? Not meant as a snarky comment, I'm genuinely interested in hearing about commercial options available and whether we can get them working with Resolve directly. Short of that, Adobe Media Encoder works just fine.


Personally I think it’s crazy we would need to support a competitor like Adobe to get a proper ProRes render support on windows… it would almost be acceptable if media encoder could be purchased separately without cloud, Premiere and AE. But sending BMD users to Adobe is shooting yourself in the foot.

However I feel many would buy an Add on for ProRes if BMD could somehow offer it .. rather than give more money to Adobe ..

I can only speak for my self but there is no chance I want to support a subscription model like Adobe.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 6:25 pm

A fair point about paying more for Adobe just to render out Prores. That said, many people who use Resolve for work also use the Adobe suite and so we already have access to it. I fit in to that category.

I'd be happy to pay Black Magic an annual amount for access to rendering out Prores in Resolve natively on a Windows workstation. I think it would have to be subscription based in order for BM to realistically do it. No problem with that here.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 17, 2024 6:43 pm

Personally I think it’s crazy we would need to support a competitor like Adobe to get a proper ProRes render support on windows… it would almost be acceptable if media encoder could be purchased separately without cloud, Premiere and AE. But sending BMD users to Adobe is shooting yourself in the foot.

However I feel many would buy an Add on for ProRes if BMD could somehow offer it .. rather than give more money to Adobe ..

I can only speak for my self but there is no chance I want to support a subscription model like Adobe.


This - even if Adobe would offer pernament licence for Adobe Media Encoder - so does other software but all the of them don't solve an issue where I have 100+ timelines and I really would like to just render them to 4444 12bit right away.

Yes, I'm open to pay extra money for that to happen. I realize it might not be in need for everyone, but if it could be implemented as paid on addon for those that need it, I think it would be viable business option.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu Apr 18, 2024 12:16 am

Lucius Snow wrote:Voukoder / ffmpeg pipeline is 10-bit limited. So forget about ProRes 4:4:4:4.


What does 10bit limited mean in reference to chroma, what can voukoder do?
Can it correctly output 422 10bit, and 444 10bit?
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu Apr 18, 2024 12:41 am

carsonjones wrote:Uli which commercial options are you referring to? Not meant as a snarky comment, I'm genuinely interested in hearing about commercial options available and whether we can get them working with Resolve directly. Short of that, Adobe Media Encoder works just fine.
The list is long and it's here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/118584
Unfortunately, none of these integrates directly with DR. I was hoping for MainConcept, who are also behind AME, but nothing yet.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu Apr 18, 2024 10:50 am

CougerJoe wrote:
Lucius Snow wrote:Voukoder / ffmpeg pipeline is 10-bit limited. So forget about ProRes 4:4:4:4.


What does 10bit limited mean in reference to chroma, what can voukoder do?
Can it correctly output 422 10bit, and 444 10bit?

Yes.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri Apr 19, 2024 12:12 pm

It really shouldn't be this hard to export prores on DR! I would also be interested in paying extra for some form of plug-in if offered by DM.

In the meantime, what other software do people recommend other than Voukoder?
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri Apr 19, 2024 3:41 pm

braded wrote:It really shouldn't be this hard to export prores on DR! I would also be interested in paying extra for some form of plug-in if offered by DM.

In the meantime, what other software do people recommend other than Voukoder?

i use Voukoder a lot, but for deliiverables where it lists "Apple Prores" i either:

- Run out a Voukoder and wash through an old MBP running v16, use same as source, makes a legit "Apple" master copies at the speed of the disk subsystem, a show at 4k copies at 500fps when useing an SSD on Tb...fastest answer

- make a mezinene DNxHR, and re-encode in Nucoda- slower - but supports 4444 / 12b when needed,

fortunatly 99%. of the deliverables call for an IMF + EXR + 422Hq so Voukoder is the simple / clean / fast answer, passes studio level QC, no issues
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri Apr 19, 2024 3:52 pm

I do find it both frustrating and amusing that Nuke and Fusion can export ProRes, but not Resolve.

:?
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri Apr 19, 2024 5:32 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:I do find it both frustrating and amusing that Nuke and Fusion can export ProRes, but not Resolve.

:?

Maybe a solution could be for BMD to add a direct saver in Fusion Studio so we can make a FS Media Encoder. Currently savers do not load audio from loaders, but if they did... It could work
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri Apr 19, 2024 6:32 pm

madchiller wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:I do find it both frustrating and amusing that Nuke and Fusion can export ProRes, but not Resolve.

:?

Maybe a solution could be for BMD to add a direct saver in Fusion Studio so we can make a FS Media Encoder. Currently savers do not load audio from loaders, but if they did... It could work


This would open so many other possibilities as well - using Fusion "engine" so to speak to automate VFX deliveries etc (think slates, many outputs from single source, versioning etc).
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSat Apr 20, 2024 3:27 pm

+1
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSat Apr 20, 2024 11:13 pm

Pavle Milicevic wrote:
madchiller wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:I do find it both frustrating and amusing that Nuke and Fusion can export ProRes, but not Resolve.

:?

Maybe a solution could be for BMD to add a direct saver in Fusion Studio so we can make a FS Media Encoder. Currently savers do not load audio from loaders, but if they did... It could work


This would open so many other possibilities as well - using Fusion "engine" so to speak to automate VFX deliveries etc (think slates, many outputs from single source, versioning etc).


I don't think BM want to involve themselves in any workarounds, they want Prores as a legit encoder in Windows Resolve with the blessing from Apple. But how many more years are they going to wait for possibly nothing at all to change.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSun Apr 21, 2024 7:16 am

+1

although I can highly recommend Voukoder!
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSun Apr 21, 2024 10:13 am

I would not suggest Voukoder, because it is not real ProRes, I had several problems in my workplace, broadcast. Frame repeats, ghosting, video artifacts.

We must have a REAL ProRes export on Windows, for Davinci!!!!!
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSun Apr 21, 2024 6:36 pm

xchrisx wrote:I would not suggest Voukoder, because it is not real ProRes, I had several problems in my workplace, broadcast. Frame repeats, ghosting, video artifacts.


If you encounter issues please make a bug report in Voukoder forum.

On the other hand I haven’t had any issues with Voukoder for a long time now. And no complaints from quality control, or even iTunes store.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostSun Apr 21, 2024 6:39 pm

CougerJoe wrote:I don't think BM want to involve themselves in any workarounds, they want Prores as a legit encoder in Windows Resolve with the blessing from Apple. But how many more years are they going to wait for possibly nothing at all to change.

As long as it is just waiting everyone keeps waiting. Bad Apple, keeps Resolve the last application without official prores encoder.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostMon Apr 22, 2024 3:04 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
xchrisx wrote:I would not suggest Voukoder, because it is not real ProRes, I had several problems in my workplace, broadcast. Frame repeats, ghosting, video artifacts.


If you encounter issues please make a bug report in Voukoder forum.

On the other hand I haven’t had any issues with Voukoder for a long time now. And no complaints from quality control, or even iTunes store.


how do you install teh Vudoku plugin?
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostMon Apr 22, 2024 5:49 am

waltervolpatto wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:
xchrisx wrote:I would not suggest Voukoder, because it is not real ProRes, I had several problems in my workplace, broadcast. Frame repeats, ghosting, video artifacts.


If you encounter issues please make a bug report in Voukoder forum.

On the other hand I haven’t had any issues with Voukoder for a long time now. And no complaints from quality control, or even iTunes store.


how do you install teh Vudoku plugin?


Download Voukoder 13.4.1 from here:
https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/7 ... tructions/

It has an installer.

Then you need the connector v0.13.0 for Resolve.

1. Extract the contents of this zip file to C:\ProgramData\Blackmagic Design\DaVinci Resolve\Support\IOPlugins
2. If the IOPlugins directory does not exist, create it
3. Make sure you have the main Voukoder application installed
4. Done
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 2:48 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
Download Voukoder 13.4.1 from here:
https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/7 ... tructions/

It has an installer.

Then you need the connector v0.13.0 for Resolve.

1. Extract the contents of this zip file to C:\ProgramData\Blackmagic Design\DaVinci Resolve\Support\IOPlugins
2. If the IOPlugins directory does not exist, create it
3. Make sure you have the main Voukoder application installed
4. Done


is there a similar solution for linux?
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 3:43 am

He's working on a Pro version, that should compile for Linux too and is currently in beta:
https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/1 ... blic-beta/
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 4:22 am

madchiller wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:I do find it both frustrating and amusing that Nuke and Fusion can export ProRes, but not Resolve.

:?

Maybe a solution could be for BMD to add a direct saver in Fusion Studio so we can make a FS Media Encoder. Currently savers do not load audio from loaders, but if they did... It could work


A better solution would be to stop being so nice to crapple and simply enable it in Resolve. Enough is enough, we the customers are more important than the chewed fruit company with the bad grammar slogan.
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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 5:17 am

xchrisx wrote:I would not suggest Voukoder, because it is not real ProRes, I had several problems in my workplace, broadcast. Frame repeats, ghosting, video artifacts.

We must have a REAL ProRes export on Windows, for Davinci!!!!!


Was the problem with the recommended version of FFMPEG Prores, - KS or the other version which is supposed to be faster but has known problems - AW . Voukoder contains both.

Apple agree's with you, but, we don't know if they're only talking about a particular variant .

Unauthorised codec implementations
In some instances, unauthorised codec implementations have been used in third-party software and hardware products. Using any unauthorised implementation (such as the FFmpeg and derivative implementations) might lead to decoding errors, performance degradation, incompatibility and instability. If you're using or considering the purchase of a product that encodes or decodes ProRes but isn't on the list below, please contact us at ProRes@apple.com.


https://support.apple.com/en-us/118584
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Lucius Snow

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 5:11 pm

Well... do like me:

- keep your PC
- install Linux as dual boot
- find the orange dongle on eBay *

* I bought mine $1500 in 2020.
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Pavle Milicevic

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostWed Apr 24, 2024 6:41 pm

Lucius Snow wrote:Well... do like me:

- keep your PC
- install Linux as dual boot
- find the orange dongle on eBay *

* I bought mine $1500 in 2020.


Please don't be silly. Might as well subscribe to some other software and transcode there, less hassle.
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Lucius Snow

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu Apr 25, 2024 12:12 pm

Pavle Milicevic wrote:
Lucius Snow wrote:Well... do like me:

- keep your PC
- install Linux as dual boot
- find the orange dongle on eBay *

* I bought mine $1500 in 2020.


Please don't be silly. Might as well subscribe to some other software and transcode there, less hassle.

Pavle Milicevic wrote:This - even if Adobe would offer pernament licence for Adobe Media Encoder - so does other software but all the of them don't solve an issue where I have 100+ timelines and I really would like to just render them to 4444 12bit right away.
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EMDave

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  • Real Name: David El-Melky

Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu May 02, 2024 6:09 am

I think having an alternative way to export ProRes is not the issue here but the request of having ProRes inside DRS is legit and more than fair, most software have it including Fusion as was mentioned earlier, I believe BMD owes us at least an explanation why it's not included and whether it'll be anytime soon.
I say that not open an argument but to express my feelings towards this subject.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu May 02, 2024 11:19 am

EMDave wrote:I believe BMD owes us at least an explanation...

BMD does not explain their choices, you get what you are given, the end.
I do stuff
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carsonjones

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu May 02, 2024 11:36 am

Prores is widely used and often requested by clients and subsequently those doing the grading. Davinci Resolve is widely used in the industry, whether you're an independent creator or work in broadcast or film. I don't think anyone who uses Resolve would be upset if Prores for export was supported on Windows workstations. If I'm a business who cares about my user base I would look to add features to my products that my customers both request and who would find it useful. Blackmagic certainly do this with their hardware products. The also typically do this within Resolve and Fusion. In this one particular matter, where Prores is supported throughout the Resolve workflow regardless of platform, they seem to be intentionally unwavering in their intent to not support Windows export of Prores and to my knowledge, have not offered an explanation that would put the matter to rest.

In the end I think the situation is what it is. Blackmagic, not keen to offer support and features to something that a significant part of their user base is requesting (i.e. Windows support to export Prores) is atypical and confuses a lot of us (myself included).

As we've read throughout this forum, there are workarounds and options. They're not ideal but they are available. If there's one thing I take away from this thread it's that Resolve users are confused by Blackmagic's behavior in this particular matter. It's out of step with everything else they do.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostThu May 02, 2024 11:54 pm

Apple's call not allow BMD to licence, BMD are passengers on this ship
from Apple's viewpoint they have to ask themselves:
what do we gain by licenceing to BMD? - guess the answer so far is "not enough"
what do we lose by licenceing to BMD? - guess the answer so far is "too much"
what do we gain by not licenceing to BMD? - guess the answer so far is "hardware sales"
what do we lose by not licenceing to BMD? - guess the answer so far is "nothing"

the decision to not licence drives sales of Apple hardware
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carsonjones

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  • Real Name: Carson Jones

Re: Prores on Windows (Export, not import!)

PostFri May 03, 2024 12:03 am

Where are you sourcing this info? From Apple directly or Blackmagic?
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