b3 Windows HDR setting

How is the new "Windows color management + HDR" setting supposed to work?

Just downloaded b3 and tried it out on my system and I'm a bit confused? Seems the setting assumes that all displays are HDR (or something else)? When I enable the setting, the main viewer (on a SDR display) goes extremely dark? I would have expected the SDR viewer to show no (major) difference to what it looks like without?

Didn't have time yet to experiment with other displays but seems the setting does not play very well in a mixed-display environment?

In general, I have now 3 displays, all of which are somewhat different so really would like any setting that impacts viewing to be settable per display and now having a single setting that seems to affect all?

"Old setting":

no HDR.jpg (44.14 KiB) Viewed 1663 times

HDR enabled:

HDR enabled.jpg (43.92 KiB) Viewed 1663 times

I can't say I'm surprised if the HDR setting on an SDR monitor doesn't look right.

How is the new "Windows color management + HDR" setting supposed to work?

Just downloaded b3 and tried it out on my system and I'm a bit confused? Seems the setting assumes that all displays are HDR (or something else)? When I enable the setting, the main viewer (on a SDR display) goes extremely dark? I would have expected the SDR viewer to show no (major) difference to what it looks like without?

Didn't have time yet to experiment with other displays but seems the setting does not play very well in a mixed-display environment?

In general, I have now 3 displays, all of which are somewhat different so really would like any setting that impacts viewing to be settable per display and now having a single setting that seems to affect all?

"Old setting":

no HDR.jpg

HDR enabled:

HDR enabled.jpg

Of course it doesn’t look right.. You are sending an HDR signal to a non HDR display. The only way to get dual SDR/HDR display outs would be use a decklink. I for one am extremely happy they have added this feature however …

Hi Guys!

After turning on the HDR setting and restarting Resolve, when I move my mouse over different areas of the Resolve interface, shades of black in the interface change subtly. Getting lighter, then darker, different areas. And, it's very random. Doesn't happen often, but does happen.

Anybody else encountering that issue?

Hi Guys!

After turning on the HDR setting and restarting Resolve, when I move my mouse over different areas of the Resolve interface, shades of black in the interface change subtly. Getting lighter, then darker, different areas. And, it's very random. Doesn't happen often, but does happen.

Anybody else encountering that issue?

No.. Not happening here … but you should specify what screen you are trying to use and what color management you are currently using and the settings … you have HDR enabled via windows and you display is also setup correctly for HDR? What HDR signal type are you sending? Also are you using HDR+ or Dolby vision?

I guess I did not make my point clearly enough.

I'm assuming that people will edit SDR and HDR and not just HDR.
I'm assuming that some editors have a mix of HDR and SDR monitors.

In the pics I'm sending an SDR signal to an SDR monitor with bad result. I would assume that the setting would enable me to send HDR to an HDR monitor successfully but not interfere with sending SDR to an SDR monitor.

So based on initial tests, seems you must enable/disable the HDR setting based on what type of material you are editing and the solution does not play well with a mixed SDR/HDR monitor setup.

I'm sending an SDR signal to an SDR monitor

How exactly?

I would assume that the setting would enable me to send HDR to an HDR monitor successfully but not interfere with sending SDR to an SDR monitor.

Not sure that's a good assumption. This setting is intended only for GUI displays, and when you have more than one of those connected, they should all be the same make/model.

I guess I did not make my point clearly enough.

I'm assuming that people will edit SDR and HDR and not just HDR.
I'm assuming that some editors have a mix of HDR and SDR monitors.

In the pics I'm sending an SDR signal to an SDR monitor with bad result. I would assume that the setting would enable me to send HDR to an HDR monitor successfully but not interfere with sending SDR to an SDR monitor.

So based on initial tests, seems you must enable/disable the HDR setting based on what type of material you are editing and the solution does not play well with a mixed SDR/HDR monitor setup.

So you mean:

1. If do SDR project, use the SDR settings in the timeline, use the SDR monitor.
2. If do HDR project, use the HDR settings in Another timeline, and use the HDR monitor via Decklink hardware connection.

Not in the same timeline to mix-up SDR / HDR projects together.

Am I right ?

I'm sending an SDR signal to an SDR monitor

How exactly?

Just a Rec.709 timeline with a Rec.709 output? Clean screen or any editing window (clean screen is perhaps the most relevant)

Perhaps not a "pro" setup, but I think quite a realistic environment would be to have like a SDR monitor for editing and then one SDR monitor for SDR clean screen and an other HDR for HDR clean screen. Now it seems that this setup would not work (or would work but I would need to set the "Windows HDR" setting on or off depending an the type of project I'm working on?

So you mean:

1. If do SDR project, use the SDR settings in the timeline, use the SDR monitor.
2. If do HDR project, use the HDR settings in Another timeline, and use the HDR monitor via Decklink hardware connection.

Not in the same timeline to mix-up SDR / HDR projects together.

Am I right ?

Well, the setting is to enable Windows HDR for Windows connected displays so in the HDR case, the HDR monitor would not be connected via Decklink (that of course is already possible).

Not sure how people work to the create (say) SDR and HDR versions of a project, I would assume different timelines in a project but of course within a timeline, either SDR or HDR, on a timeline level they would of course not be mixed.

Just a Rec.709 timeline with a Rec.709 output?

Sorry.

What I meant is what's the hardware setup? Are you feeding the SDR signal through an I/O device, like a Decklink? Are you using Clean Feed to a second monitor connected to the GPU? Is that SDR monitor your primary GUI monitor, or a second display?

Hi Guys!

After turning on the HDR setting and restarting Resolve, when I move my mouse over different areas of the Resolve interface, shades of black in the interface change subtly. Getting lighter, then darker, different areas. And, it's very random. Doesn't happen often, but does happen.

Anybody else encountering that issue?

No.. Not happening here … but you should specify what screen you are trying to use and what color management you are currently using and the settings … you have HDR enabled via windows and you display is also setup correctly for HDR? What HDR signal type are you sending? Also are you using HDR+ or Dolby vision?

Hi madchiller! I'm just using the default color management in Windows 11. The display is a laptop screen. I'm not using Dolby Vision.

What I meant is what's the hardware setup? Are you feeding the SDR signal through an I/O device, like a Decklink? Are you using Clean Feed to a second monitor connected to the GPU? Is that SDR monitor your primary GUI monitor, or a second display?

All my monitors are directly connected to Windows/GPU. So the same thing shown in my initial post for the edit display/GUI monitor also happens for my second/third displays for clean feed. All are just "normal" Rec.709 calibrated displays and Windows HDR is not (and cannot be) enabled on any of them.

I have an LG C2 TV set (which would be HDR-capable) lined up for testing but haven't had time to set that up.

Hi Guys!

After turning on the HDR setting and restarting Resolve, when I move my mouse over different areas of the Resolve interface, shades of black in the interface change subtly. Getting lighter, then darker, different areas. And, it's very random. Doesn't happen often, but does happen.

Anybody else encountering that issue?

No.. Not happening here … but you should specify what screen you are trying to use and what color management you are currently using and the settings … you have HDR enabled via windows and you display is also setup correctly for HDR? What HDR signal type are you sending? Also are you using HDR+ or Dolby vision?

Hi madchiller! I'm just using the default color management in Windows 11. The display is a laptop screen. I'm not using Dolby Vision.

I primarily meant color management in DR19. What HDR signal do you have set in output colro space in resolve? Are you sure you have a proper HDR capable display? You are running the latest Studio driver from Nvidia? ect...

What I meant is what's the hardware setup? Are you feeding the SDR signal through an I/O device, like a Decklink? Are you using Clean Feed to a second monitor connected to the GPU? Is that SDR monitor your primary GUI monitor, or a second display?

All my monitors are directly connected to Windows/GPU. So the same thing shown in my initial post for the edit display/GUI monitor also happens for my second/third displays for clean feed. All are just "normal" Rec.709 calibrated displays and Windows HDR is not (and cannot be) enabled on any of them.

I have an LG C2 TV set (which would be HDR-capable) lined up for testing but haven't had time to set that up.

This all to be expected.. Once you enable Windows Color management and HDR mode for viewers.. The viewer feeds are sending metadata to windows.. All viewers are linked to Project Color Management Output Color Space . You do not get separate outs for each viewer.. You get 1. The only way to have duel SDR/HDR is to add a decklink... as it stands.

This all to be expected.. Once you enable Windows Color management and HDR mode for viewers.. The viewer feeds are sending metadata to windows.. All viewers are linked to Project Color Management Output Color Space . You do not get separate outs for each viewer.. You get 1. The only way to have duel SDR/HDR is to add a decklink... as it stands.

To be expected, yes and no. Still, in the sample case still Project Ooutput space is SDR (Rec.709) and the monitors in Windows are set to "Rec.709" (i.e. HDR is not enabled) so I still think that the design is rather disappointing if Resolve in this case (SDR to SDR) "messes" this up when the Resolve HDR setting is "ON". On the tin it says "Use Windows display color management and HDR for viewers" and to me this is not "use Windows display color management" as Resolve does not seem to observe that HDR is not enabled for a monitor.

All are just "normal" Rec.709 calibrated displays and Windows HDR is not (and cannot be) enabled on any of them.

Well then, why are you testing this feature? It won't work without an HDR display and Windows HDR mode enabled.

This all to be expected.. Once you enable Windows Color management and HDR mode for viewers.. The viewer feeds are sending metadata to windows.. All viewers are linked to Project Color Management Output Color Space . You do not get separate outs for each viewer.. You get 1. The only way to have duel SDR/HDR is to add a decklink... as it stands.

To be expected, yes and no. Still, in the sample case still Project Ooutput space is SDR (Rec.709) and the monitors in Windows are set to "Rec.709" (i.e. HDR is not enabled) so I still think that the design is rather disappointing if Resolve in this case (SDR to SDR) "messes" this up when the Resolve HDR setting is "ON". On the tin it says "Use Windows display color management and HDR for viewers" and to me this is not "use Windows display color management" as Resolve does not seem to observe that HDR is not enabled for a monitor.

And how is Resolve meant to “observe a monitor is not set to HDR”? In short it cannot. You seem to be missing a few key points. The only part of the system that has any idea whether a monitor is set to HDR is via the monitor EDID HDR flags, and only Windows reads this with GPU connected monitors .. it’s Windows management, not Resolve.

The color management from Resolve is a one way ticket .. it sends a flag that says “I’m sending HDR”, or not, and after that .. it’s all in windows hands. FWIW.... My Main 10 bit SDR feed even with this setting enabled, is still fairly close to when its disabled.. my other crappy 8 bit screen are not...

But TBH I manage my system manually and would not trust windows to do this for me any more than required. However if using this setting I would imagine the primary ICC profiles are now being applied the viewer... So you should check those.. may need new calibrations..

And as I said .. you get 1 output from DR to Windows in terms of SDR/HDR data. All viewers are the same output … doesn’t matter what screen they are on. Would be exactly the same if you applied a viewer LUT… it goes everywhere…

If you are not using HDR you simply turn the option off… And frankly it’s a good reminder to help know what color setup you are using.

I suggest actually trying an HDR monitor and do some HDR work before dismissing how a function regarding this setup works . Cheers.

I primarily meant color management in DR19. What HDR signal do you have set in output colro space in resolve? Are you sure you have a proper HDR capable display? You are running the latest Studio driver from Nvidia? ect...

Hi madchiller!

I've got the latest driver for my Nvidia card, but my Windows 11 says HDR streaming is supported but HDR is not. I didn't change any color space setting in DR19. So, maybe my laptop doesn't 100% support HDR.

I primarily meant color management in DR19. What HDR signal do you have set in output colro space in resolve? Are you sure you have a proper HDR capable display? You are running the latest Studio driver from Nvidia? ect...

Hi madchiller!

I've got the latest driver for my Nvidia card, but my Windows 11 says HDR streaming is supported but HDR is not. I didn't change any color space setting in DR19. So, maybe my laptop doesn't 100% support HDR.

Hey! So first thing is to try to find out if your display can be set to HDR mode. Once that is enabled (if possible) then windows HDR settings should show that it is supported. Once that is setup hopefully you will no longer have any glitches... Good luck. LMK if you have questions.

And how is Resolve meant to “observe a monitor is not set to HDR”? In short it cannot. You seem to be missing a few key points. The only part of the system that has any idea whether a monitor is set to HDR is via the monitor EDID HDR flags, and only Windows reads this with GPU connected monitors .. it’s Windows management, not Resolve.

Well, actually you are wrong, Resolve could (but apparently does not) programmatically check the HDR setting for any monitor directly connected to Windows. Here is some info on how to do it:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/66155083/windows-api-to-get-whether-hdrhigh-dynamic-range-is-active

And as I said .. you get 1 output from DR to Windows in terms of SDR/HDR data. All viewers are the same output … doesn’t matter what screen they are on. Would be exactly the same if you applied a viewer LUT… it goes everywhere…

Indeed, and this I think is a major design fault in Resolve. I was hoping that the HDR setting would have brought a change to this, but alas, no.

I suggest actually trying an HDR monitor and do some HDR work before dismissing how a function regarding this setup works . Cheers.

And I would suggest that you could use less condescending tone of voice on this forum.

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

But Windows gamma and color management only outputs 1 mode at a time. It is either SDR or HDR. And are NVidia/AMD GPUs even capable of dual mode?

Also, for color-correcting purposes, Windows HDR support is terrible. (see bottom of page of link below)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... c6c5ef24e6

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

In short the use case is to enable HDR support for monitors that are capable. AFAIK It simply enables ST2084 metadata, and sends this into windows Color management. Once the display itself has HDR mode enabled, and in turn widows HDR support is turned on.... Any viewer on this display can now correctly show ST2084 PQ or HLG mode (within the monitors limitations) . This output is set and controlled ultimately via the color management output color space setting.

SDR displays however will no longer look correct as they simply cannot display the peak luminance, color space, or PQ/HLG Gammas. However the SDR handling appears to be heavily affected by the displays themselves. As users correctly test, and work through this, more info regarding handling and calibrations may be gained. It is feasible that hardware calibrated displays may help SDR handling.

With the Display and Windows HDR mode set off, and this HDR preference enabled… SDR screens may or may not look “correct”… Still working through some of this atm.

For now... I would turn it on if you want to work in HDR modes, and turn it off when working in SDR.


Also check out this link : https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/heres ... dr-content

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

But Windows gamma and color management only outputs 1 mode at a time. It is either SDR or HDR. And are NVidia/AMD GPUs even capable of dual mode?

Also, for color-correcting purposes, Windows HDR support is terrible. (see bottom of page of link below)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... c6c5ef24e6

Yeah, Windows Color Management is barely a thing... Yes the GPUs themselves can output both HDR and SDR at the same time... input to output mapping however seems to be a WIP on windows for sure...

FWIW my basic tests of Dolby Vision on my machine seem fairly decent, and "accurate" as compared to my decklink connected LG C2, and renders uploaded to you tube...

However HDR mastering displays connected to a Deck link, are the only way to go atm, for real HDR work... Lower end HDR displays tend to be WOLED and lose accuracy at higher nits brightness... amongst other issues.

Either way I am happy that windows users have to option to "get started with HDR", and also to have the option of a "decent Viewer feed" that is not blown out, or requiring a HDR to SDR LUT.

As the DR HDR support just came in this Beta, I feel folks need to test, and work through it, to find all the quirks and solutions for each scenario.

Thank you for that link also!! Cheers!

Also this tool is worth mentioning - Windows HDR Calibration app: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9n7f2 ... n-us&gl=US

What is the use case for this feature?

A "poor man's" solution for grading HDR in the GUI.

[Shrinivas Ramani]

Hi all

Thanks for the reports so far. A request to include a more complete picture of your Windows version, graphics card, driver and display arrangement with your report.

An example:
System:
Windows 11 23H2 Build 123
Intel i9 13th gen, 32 GB RAM
Nvidia 4060 Ti 8 GB VRAM (Driver: Studio 551.23)
DeckLink mini recorder 4K (driver version)

Displays:
• 1920x1080 Dell monitor, SDR. scopes, media pool, Fairlight dialogs --> Nvidia displayport
• 1920x1080 Dell monitor, SDR. UI primary --> Nvidia displayport
• 1920x1080 Dell monitor, SDR. SDR monitoring --> DeckLink
• Samsung 4K TV, HDR, clean feed --> Nvidia HDMI

Thank you
Shrinivas

Hi all

Thanks for the reports so far. A request to include a more complete picture of your Windows version, graphics card, driver and display arrangement with your report.

Shrinivas

So this is the "poor man's" HDR setup as someone so appropriately said above. Also coming from an SDR-only setup while keeping all the existing SDR gear and just adding a single HDR monitor:

System:
Windows 10 22H2 Build 19045
AMD 5600x, 64 GB RAM
AMD XT 6600 8 GB VRAM (Driver: Adrenalin 24.5.1)

Displays:
1) 1920x1080 Eizo monitor, SDR primary UI --> AMD GPU displayport
2) 1920x1080 Innocn 10 bit OLED, SDR clean feed --> AMD GPU displayport
3) LG C2 4K TV, HDR clean feed, set to HDR in Windows --> AMD GPU HDMI 2.0

Expectations when "Windows HDR" is enabled in Resolve (meaning I do not need to toggle the setting on and off depending on what I'm working on):

a) Rec.709 output timeline clean feed to SDR monitor 2) : OK, using 10 bit
b) Rec.709 output timeline clean feed to HDR monitor 3) : anything goes
c) Rec.2020 output timeline clean feed to HDR monitor 3) : OK
d) Rec.2020 output timeline clean feed to SDR monitor 2) : anything goes

e) Rec.709 timeline to SDR UI monitor 1) Viewer : OK
f) Rec.2020 timeline to SDR UI monitor 1) Viewer : preferably HDR-to-SDR tone mapping so that Viewer is a reasonable interpretation for editing but does not need to be color accurate as color evaluation would be done with a clean feed to the HDR monitor 3).

So basically this would require Resolve to programmatically check whether or not HDR is enabled on each of the monitors and adjust behavior based on that info.

So based on initial testing, points a) and e) are not fulfilled at this time, didn't get around to testing c) and f) yet, I would assume that c) works but f) not?

Plus of course while you are at it, it would be nice if the monitor LUT (and possibly some other settings?) could be made per monitor and not once for the project/timeline. Kind of think Fairlight where you can set different Busses/output to eg "mono", stereo", "5.1" etc..

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

But Windows gamma and color management only outputs 1 mode at a time. It is either SDR or HDR. And are NVidia/AMD GPUs even capable of dual mode?

Also, for color-correcting purposes, Windows HDR support is terrible. (see bottom of page of link below)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... c6c5ef24e6

Windows allows one monitor to run in HDR mode and the other in SDR mode.

My question is now, does this new Resolve feature also affect the clean feed screen or just the GUI screen?

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

But Windows gamma and color management only outputs 1 mode at a time. It is either SDR or HDR. And are NVidia/AMD GPUs even capable of dual mode?

Also, for color-correcting purposes, Windows HDR support is terrible. (see bottom of page of link below)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... c6c5ef24e6

Windows allows one monitor to run in HDR mode and the other in SDR mode.

My question is now, does this new Resolve feature also affect the clean feed screen or just the GUI screen?

Output Colorspace in Project settings affects all viewers. After that it’s in windows hands. At face value it does not appear windows handles this correctly so many SDR screens are too dark. This may be fix able but remains to be confirmed.

I'm talking about this new feature. If I am working on an HDR project but my GUI screen is an SDR monitor, is the feature going to affect the timeline monitor and the clean feed or just the GUI monitor?

I have two SDR monitors for the GUI and one HDR monitor via clean feed on my NVidia 3080. Is that going to work?

I'm talking about this new feature. If I am working on an HDR project but my GUI screen is an SDR monitor, is the feature going to affect the timeline monitor and the clean feed or just the GUI monitor?

So am I … yes both, All viewers are affected as described above.

If I am working on an HDR project but my GUI screen is an SDR monitor

This new feature won't help you then.

If I am working on an HDR project but my GUI screen is an SDR monitor

This new feature won't help you then.

Not
Accurate .. He could grade HDR clean feed on HDR monitor, and ignore sdr GUI viewer.

He could grade HDR clean feed on HDR monitor

He doesn't have an HDR monitor.

He could grade HDR clean feed on HDR monitor

He doesn't have an HDR monitor.

I’m sorry Jim but he said he had two above… One SDR and One HDR…

What is the use case for this feature? I have two monitors - one SDR - one HDR capabile.

Yep, looks like I got confused.