Micro Studio 4K G2 sync/genlock

We are mounting the new Micro Studio 4K G2 onto a drone, and we need to sync/Genlock with another piece of equipment, also mounted on the drone. This other piece of equipment is an in-house inertial GPS system, which takes a 30fps tri-level sync (currently from an Ambient Lockit). How do we get this tri-level sync signal into the camera so the two pieces of equipment are synchronised? I presume the SDI input on the Micro Studio won't take a tri-level signal directly? Any converter has to be small enough to fit on a drone. We are currently using a G2 Broadcast camera, with an Ambient Lockit providing the sync to both units, and this works because this camera has a dedicated Sync input. The problem is that the G2 Broadcast camera is just a bit too big for the drone, hence the switch to a Micro Studio 4K G2. This is for a real-time augmented reality application, hence the need for Genlock.

I hope there's a way to do it, because this camera would be great for a 3-D setup.

The connectivity of it seems very good otherwise.

We are mounting the new Micro Studio 4K G2 onto a drone, and we need to sync/Genlock with another piece of equipment, also mounted on the drone. This other piece of equipment is an in-house inertial GPS system, which takes a 30fps tri-level sync (currently from an Ambient Lockit). How do we get this tri-level sync signal into the camera so the two pieces of equipment are synchronised? I presume the SDI input on the Micro Studio won't take a tri-level signal directly? Any converter has to be small enough to fit on a drone. We are currently using a G2 Broadcast camera, with an Ambient Lockit providing the sync to both units, and this works because this camera has a dedicated Sync input. The problem is that the G2 Broadcast camera is just a bit too big for the drone, hence the switch to a Micro Studio 4K G2. This is for a real-time augmented reality application, hence the need for Genlock.

Hi Julian,
have you been able to solve the external sync issue on the Micro 4K G2? I'm looking to sync two cams for a 3D production.

Best,
Sebastian

[Gary Adams]

The Micro Studio Camera 4K G2 will genlock to Input SDI video. So the easiest way to do this is using an ATEM switcher with reference input. The ATEM could be used for camera control as well. So genlock the ATEM with the reference generator. Feed SDI out of the ATEM to the Camera and set the camera reference to Input video. You will be able to set the timing of the camera as well. I hope this helps.

Regards, Gary

Thanks for the clarification. In this case the cameras are not embedded in a studio environment. Can I have one camera run as the master cam, feeding the video out to the other in order to slave this camera and get a stabile sensor sync?

Thanks for the clarification. In this case the cameras are not embedded in a studio environment. Can I have one camera run as the master cam, feeding the video out to the other in order to slave this camera and get a stabile sensor sync?

It would be worth a shot. They wouldn’t be in sync as the slave would chase the master but you may be able to advance the timing of the slave to compensate.

It would be nice to see the option for PTP sync since the cams don’t accept traditional genlock.

Good Luck

I wonder if you could use an UltraSync One: https://www.atomos.com/explore/ultrasync-one/

It has genlock output, and according to this guy's listing it seems that it supports SDI: https://www.sharegrid.com/losangeles/l/306284

One thing is that it uses RF with a claimed 200m range, so it might be useful for drones. The units are quite small.

I'm waiting to get the second camera to do proper tests. Let's see how big the delay actually is.

I wonder if you could use an UltraSync One: https://www.atomos.com/explore/ultrasync-one/

It has genlock output, and according to this guy's listing it seems that it supports SDI: https://www.sharegrid.com/losangeles/l/306284

One thing is that it uses RF with a claimed 200m range, so it might be useful for drones. The units are quite small.

It would be so easy, if a trilevel sync would be accepted. I have to investigate it the ultrasync would be accepted as an external source. I will check a master/slave configuration from one camera first and see if there is a significant delay here. Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the ultrasync, it's worth to check.

it's worth to check.

You're welcome! Let us know the results of your tests.

The Ultrasync doesn’t output SDI.

Good Luck

The Ultrasync doesn’t output SDI.

Good Luck

Mhmm, this is what I thought. I have mailed to Atomos, but you where faster. Thanks

Too bad...

What is actually interesting, if you look at the manual of the SDI protocol, you find a section "Reference", with the following controls 0=internal / 1=program / 2=external.
The current menus in the camera just show "internal" and "program" and are missing "external".

So it looks to me like the genlock feature is currently not implemented but on the agenda, which would make sense, als genlock is definitely stated in all specs. In fact I bought several cameras for this project, because of this feature. And it leaves me pretty speachless to find out genlock should be a SDI feed. This is not how it's defined.

So my question to Blackmagic: is trilevel sync going to be implemented soon and if so, is there a timing when this release will be available? Please raise the curtain. Thanks.

I wonder if the menu item is missing when there's no signal coming in. That would be profoundly poor UI design (since inapplicable options should be greyed out, not missing), but you see it all too often now. Not singling out BMD here; I haven't noticed that they're an offender in this regard.

I wonder if the menu item is missing when there's no signal coming in. That would be profoundly poor UI design (since inapplicable options should be greyed out, not missing), but you see it all too often now. Not singling out BMD here; I haven't noticed that they're an offender in this regard.

I connected a trilevel sync to the camera and it still had only the options "internal" and "programm". So it seems like it's in the works. I'd love to see "reference" being available end of May, when the film is about to start. Hopefully there will be an answer by BMD soon.

What is actually interesting, if you look at the manual of the SDI protocol, you find a section "Reference", with the following controls 0=internal / 1=program / 2=external.
The current menus in the camera just show "internal" and "program" and are missing "external".

So it looks to me like the genlock feature is currently not implemented but on the agenda, which would make sense, als genlock is definitely stated in all specs. In fact I bought several cameras for this project, because of this feature. And it leaves me pretty speachless to find out genlock should be a SDI feed. This is not how it's defined.

So my question to Blackmagic: is trilevel sync going to be implemented soon and if so, is there a timing when this release will be available? Please raise the curtain. Thanks.

The SDI protocol is for all the camera's, so it may include features a particular camera doesn't have.
The protocol also works with the old Micro Studio which did have genlock on the 15 pin D-sub.

Since the new one doesn't have any of those features I think getting a genlock in is unlikely.
It is an oversight for sure, but I think that these camera's have lots of oversights in the design like the side facing connectors instead of grouping everything in the back which would be a lot more useful for live use.

Hi Sander,
on the main info page (www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/black ... udiocamera) it clearly says the 12G SDI input is used for "Camera control input and genlock."

Based on this information I convinced the producers to test the Micro 4K G2 for this project for various reasons and not go with established and reliable brands like Arri, Sony or Red. We did a two days test with full crew and both producers and executives were happy with the results. We couldn't test the genlock feature, because the micro sdi cables were not delivered at this time.

An SDI feed is clearly not the same as a genlock. I urgently need a reliable feedback from BMD, if genlock will be enabled soon. It would be a nightmare to switch to another camera brand at this time, just for this one feature.

Yes, they use it for genlocking, to SDI sources.
This is typical use of marketing words, sadly unless you can actually try it you never know what is true of the claims being made.

Something like a Lynx P TG 3601 would work, it can generate 2 SDI patterns and take an external ref source.

Yes, they use it for genlocking, to SDI sources.
This is typical use of marketing words, sadly unless you can actually try it you never know what is true of the claims being made.

Something like a Lynx P TG 3601 would work, it can generate 2 SDI patterns and take an external ref source.

So true... Thanks for the info with the Lynx. If anyone knows of a TC Generator, which can provide an SDI black signal instead of a trilevel sync, please let me know.

The SDI signal doesn’t need to be black. Tri-level doesn’t rasterize at all. On old school analog switchers and routers black burst was input 1, it was the timing reference as well as the system black. When manual timing was necessary your input sources would be timed against the black signal which was also the reference.

Gary implied that an SDI signal could serve as a sync source though an Atem was the best way. If the cam can sync to an SDI signal, and not some specific anc data, then there should be no reason why the cam can’t sync to any SDI source.

I use Ross sync/TC generators that can generate just about any reference or SDI signal one would require tho I’m guessing the goal is something Lockit sized.

Good Luck

The SDI signal doesn’t need to be black. Tri-level doesn’t rasterize at all. On old school analog switchers and routers black burst was input 1, it was the timing reference as well as the system black. When manual timing was necessary your input sources would be timed against the black signal which was also the reference.

Gary implied that an SDI signal could serve as a sync source though an Atem was the best way. If the cam can sync to an SDI signal, and not some specific anc data, then there should be no reason why the cam can’t sync to any SDI source.

I use Ross sync/TC generators that can generate just about any reference or SDI signal one would require tho I’m guessing the goal is something Lockit sized.

Good Luck

Thanks, Howard. Yes, we have several 3D rigs, which should all be independ and very true, the goal is something in the form factor of a Lockit. The Ross products seem to be all 19".

Got a message from Gary that there will be no options for trilevel sync for this camera. So I will have to investigate the best and smallest solution for feeding SDI to the cams. Your right, it doesn't have to be black, but it needs to be in sync with the external TC.

Combining a Lynx P TG 3601 with a Lockit would be a valid option and is probably doing, what is needed here. But it's another box on the rig, with more cables and more things which can go wrong. If the SDI of a Lockit or the Ultrasync would deliver a SDI feed, this would be the solution. But unfortunatelly they aren't. I have mailed to Lynx, if I can test their unit.

Thanks again for all your valuable information.

Cheers,
Sebastian

I'm curious as to why this wouldn't work: https://www.sharbor.com/cable-ultrasync ... e-red.html

Is it because devices like the UltraSync generate "tri-level" sync signals? I'm not familiar with the particulars.

I'm curious as to why this wouldn't work: https://www.sharbor.com/cable-ultrasync ... e-red.html

Is it because devices like the UltraSync generate "tri-level" sync signals? I'm not familiar with the particulars.

As of now the camera can only sync to SDI input. Traditional sync signals like burst and TLS are analog.

Good Luck

Then what is the purpose of this SDI adapter?

Maybe there’s some misunderstanding here RE: BNC vs SDI?

I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard of a 12G SDI port that would also function analog so it’s not a reasonable expectation in my experience. Blackmagic utilizes a relatively singular method of using return video as reference, which is what the micros are expecting.

Good Luck

So I tested the sync function using a couple different sources. The first was a Teranex AV, the second was the SDI out from another camera. In both cases the G2 was able to lock to external video and extract TC (RP188) from the sync signal.

Good Luck

Thanks for the info

So I tested the sync function using a couple different sources.

Thanks for the info!

thanks for the information.

So I tested the sync function using a couple different sources. The first was a Teranex AV, the second was the SDI out from another camera. In both cases the G2 was able to lock to external video and extract TC (RP188) from the sync signal.

Good Luck

So am I to understand you can have two G2 connected by just a short sdi cable and achieve genlock for let's say vr180 video? Because I've been scouring the internet for this answer as I have a vr180 job coming up and was thinking of 2 bmmscG2 or the canon r5c

Yeah, it works. I guess the question is what device is small enough and embeds RP188 TC? It might be that the smallest SDI generator that will also embed RP188 is another micro cam.

It remains a mystery what happens when trying to sync a micro from a micro. I can sync the micro to a Komodo but that doesn’t tell me anything about AV sync or genlock, just that all the boxes are ticked.

Good Luck

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It's not good enough to jam one of the cameras to a TC source and then connect them together?

It's not good enough to jam one of the cameras to a TC source and then connect them together?

It will work but we don’t know what the real world AV offset is until somebody tries it. A few pixels of delay are likely tolerable, a few hundred lines, probably not.

Good Luck